[SK6]

What do you folks use for daily evening backups? Meaning, do any of you use tape backups, or is there a better way.

I know how I would do it, but I wanted to know what the norm is. The IT guy we have is an idiot, and cannot get the tape backups to restore properly, only to learn that the tape backup is not actually backing up properly.

So, what is the best way for doing backups?

 

[splat]

Tape Backups , with a Good Software Package!!

I do weekly on frinday Night , ( which then get sent off site ) and Incremntals during the week , that are on a 4 week rotation.

My personal favorite software is Veritas Netbackup, Legato Networker is Very Good too. I am Going to be moving all my Backups to Brightstore this summer ( I really don't want to ).

How much data/ How many machines ?

 

[Ridemonkey]

I use an external 250gig Firewire drive, with a script that runs every night to copy over important files. Then once a month I burn DVDs from the backup drive.

 

[binary visions]

Tape backups are still very standard across the industry. His inability to set it up properly doesn't mean it doesn't work well

They're not the ideal archival solution, obviously, since tapes eventually lose their integrity, but for day-to-day backups a rotating set of tapes work extremely well.

 

[splat]

I use an external 250gig Firewire drive, with a script that runs every night to copy over important files. Then once a month I burn DVDs from the backup drive.

you need to be carefull on using DVD/CD-r for backups , if you legally need the data for more than 3 Years , DVD/CD-R is a Bad Idea!

 

[Ridemonkey]

I rarely need anything legally, and the data stays on at least 2 different harddrives as well. What's wrong with DVD-R? They degrade even without use?

 

[binary visions]

you need to be carefull on using DVD/CD-r for backups , if you legally need the data for more than 3 Years , DVD/CD-R is a Bad Idea!

You can buy CD media that's rated for archival purposes.

 

[splat]

I rarely need anything legally, and the data stays on at least 2 different harddrives as well. What's wrong with DVD-R? They degrade even without use?

Yes especially if exposed to sunlight , in theory if you store them in the darkess recess of your Basement they should last much much longer.

and they will not be accetpable during a Sarbanes-oxley audit

 

[binary visions]

I rarely need anything legally, and the data stays on at least 2 different harddrives as well. What's wrong with DVD-R? They degrade even without use?

Yep... Estimates vary wildly, from as little as 3 years to as many as 10 years. I'll tell you I have CD media that's 10 years old that still works, but it's not guaranteed.

It's just a chemical layer that the CD writes onto, and that chemical layer degrades over time. It's a good idea to refresh CD or DVD backups every couple years - I mean, it wouldn't take more than a day or so to do it, and sacrificing a weekend every couple years isn't really that big a deal.

 

[syadasti]

you need to be carefull on using DVD/CD-r for backups , if you legally need the data for more than 3 Years , DVD/CD-R is a Bad Idea!

Compliance (Sarbanes-Oxley, PITA) in various industry you are required by law to backup three years of electronic correspondence by third party (can't do it yourself) to WORM, so thats better than tape in the eye of the law except for the fact you are doing it yourself...

 

[splat]

You can buy CD media that's rated for archival purposes.

But they are not acceptable in a Sarbanes-Oxley audit.

 

[syadasti]

But they are not acceptable in a Sarbanes-Oxley audit.

They are if burned by third party. CDR and DVDR are WORM media.

 

[SkaredShtles]

you need to be carefull on using DVD/CD-r for backups , if you legally need the data for more than 3 Years , DVD/CD-R is a Bad Idea!

It's generally accepted that quality optical media lasts longer than magnetic tape.

 

[splat]

Compliance (Sarbanes-Oxley, PITA) in various industry you are required by law to backup three years of electronic correspondence by third party (can't do it yourself) to WORM, so thats better than tape in the eye of the law except for the fact you are doing it yourself...

7 years !

 

[binary visions]

But they are not acceptable in a Sarbanes-Oxley audit.

This is true, I attended a lecture on S-O audits even though I never had to go through one - I guess I was thinking that people who are getting S-O audits will know what is and is not acceptable

 

[syadasti]

7 years !

Not in brokage firms, its 3 years.

 

[splat]

They are if burned by third party. CDR and DVDR are WORM media.

actually those are not your off the shelf CDR/DVDR, those are true Blue CD/DVD burners , Big difference , but yes that is acceptable.

 

[splat]

Not in brokage firms, its 3 years.

Interesting. they are making me keep mine for 7 ( but I'm Not in a brokage firm )

 

[SkaredShtles]

For SK6's query - the dude should be using tape backups and testing that they're working.

What operating systems are being backed up? Just Windows?

 

[SkaredShtles]

Interesting. they are making me keep mine for 7 ( but I'm Not in a brokage firm )

How do you keep track/manage data refreshes?

 

[binary visions]

This is all interesting as an aside, but SK6 seems to already have a tape backup solution implemented. It's not working, clearly, but it's there.

So, the answer is that tape backups are still a good solution, they just need someone to set up the backup properly. Use what you've got, just have someone smart set it up

 

[Konabumm]

I run our daily backup, keep in mind we are backing up over 20,000 users. We use Veritas Netbackup backing up to a 10k Adic tape library. Our redundancy is 1month online (that means in the library and ready for access) and 6months offsite (in a different building, can recover data from 6monts ago)

If you have any question feel free to PM me.

 

[syadasti]

The best solution for electronic messaging compliance in my industry is Messagerite which was bought by Frontbridge which was bought by Microsoft. Microsoft calls it an exchange service, but it doesn't run on a microsoft platform (at least it didn't last time I checked with Messagerite)

We use Veritas, I mean Symantec Backup Exec

 

[SK6]

I don't have it implemented, the IT dude, does, however, it is highly ineffective and the media seems to be corrupt. The media that isn't is still having issue.

The network on the job-site is slow, the backups unreliable and the drawing system management is poo poo...

The program of choice is Autodesk building systems. drawing every couple of days corrupt, and the tape back-ups we use to restore typically do not work.

The IT dude is also remotely doing the IT stuff from Rochester..he's never been on site at this point. SO...I was making a query into a better way to do it..

 

[Konabumm]

We use Veritas, I mean Symantec Backup Exec

Backup exec is good for a hand full of server but Netbackup is where its at for networks. Everything can be done from a central location

 

[SK6]

The program implemented is "Tapeware"

 

[SkaredShtles]

Backup exec is good for a hand full of server but Netbackup is where its at for networks. Everything can be done from a central location

However, Netbackup (like all Veritas products) = $$$$$$$$$$

 

[splat]

The program implemented is "Tapeware"

Nuff said !

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tapeware

No wonder you have problems

 

[syadasti]

However, Netbackup (like all Veritas products) = $$$$$$$$$$

Its Symantec...

We don't need Netbackup.

 

[SK6]

OK, inexpensive software solutions for tape backups then?

 

[Konabumm]

However, Netbackup (like all Veritas products) = $$$$$$$$$$

yup it is, but when restores are very important it's good to know the product will come through

 

[syadasti]

OK, inexpensive software solutions for tape backups then?

Write your own batch file

 

[SkaredShtles]

Write your own batch file

 

[binary visions]

Write your own batch file

Seriously, if it's not a big company and/or the files are all stored in one good, central location, a batch file is a very easy way to back things up. Just a few lines to copy the appropriate directories to the right tape drive, and stick it in a scheduler.

Advanced backup features are great, but realistically, many small companies would be fine with a straight copy of a few directories, performed once a night.

 

[SkaredShtles]

Its Symantec...

So they say......

 

[Konabumm]

you could use something like "robocopy" and write to an external drive. Robocopy comes on the w2k resource kit

 

[sanjuro]

My unbiased opinion is that Netbackup and Backup Exec are the best products on the market and will protect you in case of disaster. The cost, in my opinion, is worth it if you value your data.

 

[SK6]

Large company, many off-site servers and large files.

 

[SkaredShtles]

Large company, many off-site servers and large files.

And your IT guy can't get backups to work?

He should be fired.

 

[binary visions]

And your IT guy can't get backups to work?

He should be fired.

Yep.

It's not that hard. If he doesn't know how, he could learn how very easily and quickly. There's no excuse for bad backups