[MMike]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ITAR

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/businesstechnology/2002918295_boeing08.html

Anyone heard of ITAR? It's totally retarded. Being in the field I'm in, I'm affected by this crap daily. Apparently when they cracked down here last year, the director dude told everyone, "The only thing dumber that these rules is to not comply with them".

Sufficed to say though the Boeing story is pretty lame.

This is my favourite line:

The 2-ounce, 1-inch-diameter QRS-11 chip, made by a unit of BEI Technologies in Concord, Calif., sells for less than $2,000. Boeing executives argued that a military enemy seeking the chip would have alternatives to buying a $60 million jet and taking apart the flight box.

 

[Westy]

A lot of those export restrictions are a pain in the ass. My company is restricted from exporting certain advanced CNC controls to countries like china. Our biggest competitor out of Germany has no such restrictions. The laws have basically restricted us from the market but still failed to prevent the technology from actually getting into China.

 

[MMike]

I hear tell that ITAR basically killed some orders for helicopters that were already signed. We are the purely commercial end of Bell. But we are restricted to to we can sell to as well.

And what's even fnnier with the boeing situation, is that China actually MAKES parts for Boeing. The 737 vertical fin, and horizontal stabilizers are made both in Renton WA and China.....well the were as of 1999 anyway. Maybe that changed.

 

[slein]

There's also CTAT.

Its a national security thing. It always trumps common sense, like the fact the Russians already have the information. Where do you think the Germans got it from?

And the Chinese? They've got it too. How? They had a party and took everything. So much for friends and allies.

 

[Changleen]

Oh please. Like America is the best at anything other than marketing these days. Japan is better at electronics, Korea is better at Biotech, Europe is better at finance and general engineering (and Democracy), China and Taiwan are better at manufacturing, and the Middle East is way more fundamental than you, although you're having a good go at contesting that one, I will admit. You can't even build a decent space rocket anymore, Russia has you beat on that one and Canada has the best mountain bike park. What happened to you guys anyway?

 

[ohio]

Oh please. Like America is the best at anything other than marketing these days. Japan is better at electronics, Korea is better at Biotech, Europe is better at finance and general engineering (and Democracy), China and Taiwan are better at manufacturing, and the Middle East is way more fundamental than you, although you're having a good go at contesting that one, I will admit. You can't even build a decent space rocket anymore, Russia has you beat on that one and Canada has the best mountain bike park. What happened to you guys anyway?

Don't get ahead of yourself. The US is falling from where it was but we're not there yet (though well on our way at this pace). You're full of **** regarding:
Biotech - Koreans cloned first, though a lot of it was faked. Other, than that the US and Europe are the leaders, and if you break down Europe to the country level rather than EU, the US leads by far in innovation and revenues.
Finance - New York is and always will be the financial center of the modern world. It's the one industry I don't think we can **** up.
Engineering - we still lead on the innovation front, Europe isn't even close. For pure number crunching you can now get decent results out of some developing nations, but if you want something new, the US is where it's at. Even our electronics when it comes to design innovation beat Japan.

So while I am the loudest Chicken Little on the board when it comes to the US's declining scientific/educational standards, I don't think we're feeling the brunt of those mistakes just yet. It won't be that long until we do, but in the meantime, we still rule. America, **** yeah.

 

[fluff]

Don't get ahead of yourself. The US is falling from where it was but we're not there yet (though well on our way at this pace). You're full of **** regarding:
Biotech - Koreans cloned first, though a lot of it was faked. Other, than that the US and Europe are the leaders, and if you break down Europe to the country level rather than EU, the US leads by far in innovation and revenues.
Finance - New York is and always will be the financial center of the modern world. It's the one industry I don't think we can **** up.
Engineering - we still lead on the innovation front, Europe isn't even close. For pure number crunching you can now get decent results out of some developing nations, but if you want something new, the US is where it's at. Even our electronics when it comes to design innovation beat Japan.

So while I am the loudest Chicken Little on the board when it comes to the US's declining scientific/educational standards, I don't think we're feeling the brunt of those mistakes just yet. It won't be that long until we do, but in the meantime, we still rule. America, **** yeah.

I though Dolly the sheep was the first cloned mammal and she was Scottish?

Not sure about your engineering statement either, far too generalised - there are certainly some areas where Europe is ahead, and others where the far East (specially the Japanese) are leading.

Your ID industry rules (and created) the world however.

 

[MMike]

One thing we all must remember when claiming the national engineering smarts prize: (in aerospace anyway)....no-one has the market cornered. Engineers come from everywhere....just because a project is BASED somewhere doesn't mean that country can claim it.

I'm in a cube of 4. I'm with one scottsman (not sure if he's "true" or not), a Brit and a polish guy. The place it littered with americans, germans, brits, etc etc etc. And Boeing is the same way.....as is Airbus. Engineers come from everywhere.

(And for the record, the section that was offloaded to a Korean company came back completely .....and I mean COMPLETELY screwed up. None of what they did for us was right!)

 

[Westy]

I believe the US still wins in the category of being consumer whores.

 

[MMike]

I believe the US still wins in the category of being consumer whores.

....and you win in the category of great big butts....

 

[MMike]

BUt none of any of this has to do with the paranoid secret keeping ITAR crap....

Actually when I was at Boeing, I had one of my database accounts revoked because I was a foreign national. IT turned out that if you dug deep enough in the database, you could find AWACS info. Nothing of any great importance. But AWACS nonetheless. (and AWACS is just a tricked out 767 right?)

So anyway, it made it very difficult to do my job. I had to get an american to log in at my computer so I could work. In the end, this gave me even MORE access.....because my original account had already been somewhat limited because I was a contractor. But then whenI had a US, direct employee log in for me, I had access to EVERYTHING.

That worked out really well.......

 

[Westy]

....and you win in the category of great big butts....

Actually Samoa is the fattest, But since I think they are a US territory we win again.

 

[Changleen]

Don't get ahead of yourself. The US is falling from where it was but we're not there yet (though well on our way at this pace). You're full of **** regarding:
Biotech - Koreans cloned first, though a lot of it was faked. Other, than that the US and Europe are the leaders, and if you break down Europe to the country level rather than EU, the US leads by far in innovation and revenues.
Finance - New York is and always will be the financial center of the modern world. It's the one industry I don't think we can **** up.
Engineering - we still lead on the innovation front, Europe isn't even close. For pure number crunching you can now get decent results out of some developing nations, but if you want something new, the US is where it's at. Even our electronics when it comes to design innovation beat Japan.

So while I am the loudest Chicken Little on the board when it comes to the US's declining scientific/educational standards, I don't think we're feeling the brunt of those mistakes just yet. It won't be that long until we do, but in the meantime, we still rule. America, **** yeah.

C'mon, that was a blatent Troll. I'll stand by most of it though.

 

[MMike]

They just banned cell phones ....especially camera phones at work yesterday

 

[DaveW]

Actually Samoa is the fattest, But since I think they are a US territory we win again.

Only part of Samoa.
The rest is an independant country more closely linked to NZ than USA.

 

[Westy]

Only part of Samoa.
The rest is an independant country more closely linked to NZ than USA.

Woo hoo, we are only the second fattest nation. ink:

 

[valve bouncer]

Only part of Samoa.
The rest is an independant country more closely linked to NZ than USA.

Most of your rugby team is Samoan or Tongan at the moment. Good to see you blokes peaking between World Cups as usual.

 

[DaveW]

Most of your rugby team is Samoan or Tongan at the moment. Good to see you blokes peaking between World Cups as usual.

Island ancestry.... But all born, raised and educated here.