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It's a freekin' wonder no one gets killed in this video clip...

MTB_Rob_NC

What do I have to do to get you in this car TODAY?
Nov 15, 2002
3,430
0
Charlotte, NC
manimal said:
not necessarily true. as you can tell from the video, the bike was not even at a full lean angle and the car had to drift to make the turn fast enough to stay ahead. not many drivers could handle the car that well. if you put an evenly matched amature car and motorcycle driver on their respective machines and put then through the twisties, the bike would be able to hang no problem. you put a pro car driver against a novie bike rider and it's a different story.

i went to several track days at willow springs and observerd consistantly faster lap times from the amature bikes than the comparible car class.
This is a never ending E-argument. Cars are faster then bikes. Put the ultimate car and driver vs the ultimate bike and rider on the same race course and the car will win every time.
 

manimal

Ociffer Tackleberry
Feb 27, 2002
7,214
14
Blindly running into cactus
Mtb_Rob_FL said:
This is a never ending E-argument. Cars are faster then bikes. Put the ultimate car and driver vs the ultimate bike and rider on the same race course and the car will win every time.

more the rider than the vehicle but yes, cars have the size and room to build faster/wider ....but the catch is that you have to buy a $50,000+ car to beat a sub $10k bike :D
 

MTB_Rob_NC

What do I have to do to get you in this car TODAY?
Nov 15, 2002
3,430
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Charlotte, NC
manimal said:
more the rider than the vehicle but yes, cars have the size and room to build faster/wider ....but the catch is that you have to buy a $50,000+ car to beat a sub $10k bike :D
Like I said, its a never ending argument. I could theoretically build a turbo charged rotary Miata (for under $5k) that could run 10s in the 1/4 and kill just about any bike on the dragon, but then again.... its a never ending argument.

No doubt bikes are a great value, but ultimately they are slower then cars.
 

manimal

Ociffer Tackleberry
Feb 27, 2002
7,214
14
Blindly running into cactus
i totally agree...anyone can build any machine to beat said component. but right now i'm going with what the average person is going to get....and that would be a stock machine. a stock $10k bike will stand alone against any STOCK car (and most ricers) until you get into the super performance cars that you have to pay over $50k for.

once you get into the tuners aspect of it where you have drivers and builders that aren't exactly amatures then the speed/handling gap gets much closer. but no stock vehicle on the road can match the power/weight ratio of a bike for even double the price.

For instance:
2006 R1
176 Hp at the rear wheel
386 lbs wet.

that comes out to 2.19 HP per pound.

that's equivalent to a 3000 lb sportscar having 6,570 HP.


you're right, it's a neverending debate but i've raced and beaten many a high dollar sports car on a 600cc bike and have watched cars get dusted at track days. and i've also seen the opposite with the same cars/bikes depending on the drivers.

and 10's on the drag strip aren't uncommon for stock bikes btw.
kawasaki zx-10 = 8.75@145mph
 

Wumpus

makes avatars better
Dec 25, 2003
8,163
154
Six Shooter Junction
manimal said:
For instance:
2006 R1
176 Hp at the rear wheel
386 lbs wet.

that comes out to 2.19 HP per pound.

that's equivalent to a 3000 lb sportscar having 6,570 HP.
You have that backwards.

R1 = .46 hp/lb

You would still need 1300 hp for the car, though.
 

manimal

Ociffer Tackleberry
Feb 27, 2002
7,214
14
Blindly running into cactus
dangit! i feel dumb now...that's what i get for talking to the wife and trying to divide at the same time.

but yeah...1300hp in a street legal car is pretty insane. i thought the 6570 was a bit astronomical ;)
 

BigMike

BrokenbikeMike
Jul 29, 2003
8,933
0
Montgomery county MD
manimal said:
dangit! i feel dumb now...that's what i get for talking to the wife and trying to divide at the same time.

but yeah...1300hp in a street legal car is pretty insane. i thought the 6570 was a bit astronomical ;)

See, thats why you shouldn't talk to your wife. Or do math ;)

This has been a pretty interesting conversation, and all I'm going to say is that any bike i've ever been on, or seen my friends on, will beat any car i've ever driven or seen my friends driven. We are all amatures, and no one has a really expensive car. That's all I'm sayin.
 

MTB_Rob_NC

What do I have to do to get you in this car TODAY?
Nov 15, 2002
3,430
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Charlotte, NC
BigMike said:
and all I'm going to say is that any bike i've ever been on, or seen my friends on, will beat any car i've ever driven or seen my friends driven. We are all amatures, and no one has a really expensive car. That's all I'm sayin.
So your friends are dumb and poor? :blah:
 

BillT

Monkey
Bang for the buck certainly is weighted heavily in favor of bikes, but like Rob said, at the extreme high-end of the spectrum, cars own bikes all day due to aerodynamics, braking, and tire contact patch. For example, both MotoGP and F1 race the Sepang circuit in Malaysia (based on the identical lengths, I would assume the circuit is configured essentially the same for both races). The fastest lap during the race for F1 in 2005 was 1:35.483 and for MotoGP the lap time for the pole (I couldn't find the fastest race lap) was 2:01.731. At that circuit, the F1 car would lap the MotoGP bike every 8 or so laps.
 

TheInedibleHulk

Turbo Monkey
May 26, 2004
1,890
0
Colorado
I love anything with a motor but ultimately I have to defend the car camp. If I had to choose between a fast bike and a fast car I would take the car, but ideally I would have both. My friend ben and I are going to work on his new project over christmas break. It's a shifter kart chassis with a cbr 600 motor. We already have everything we need, the motor mounts he made just need some reinforcement and then we have to figure out where to put everything else. 90hp and some ridiculously low weight.. should be rad. I'm guessing a bike sans motor probably weighs in the high 200lbs range, the shifter kart chassis you can pick up with one hand.
 

MTB_Rob_NC

What do I have to do to get you in this car TODAY?
Nov 15, 2002
3,430
0
Charlotte, NC
TheInedibleHulk said:
My friend ben and I are going to work on his new project over christmas break. It's a shifter kart chassis with a cbr 600 motor. We already have everything we need, the motor mounts he made just need some reinforcement and then we have to figure out where to put everything else. 90hp and some ridiculously low weight.. should be rad.
I am gonna go out on a limb and say you are gonna kill yourself. Seriously though you will totally over power a shifter kart chasis (and tires) with that kind of motor.
 

TheInedibleHulk

Turbo Monkey
May 26, 2004
1,890
0
Colorado
Oh we are fully aware of that. We're not the first ones to do this, in fact Ive seen a couple with 1000cc motors. I tried to talk ben into doing just a fast 125, but he bought the chassis and he's got his heart set on the monstercart. As far as killing ourselves, I dont really do anything in which there's not at least some chance of dying, so that's really nothing new. The motor is from our old cart, which was a homemade formula SAE knockoff (fully independent suspension, 13 inch wheels, 4 wheel discs, ect.). Absolutely everything on that car was designed and fabricated by two high school seniors with no real design skills other than common sense. I took that car to about 125 mph and raced a real car on the street. So basically, we know what we're doing, we know it's stupid and ridiculous, and quite frankly... thats the whole point.
 

MTB_Rob_NC

What do I have to do to get you in this car TODAY?
Nov 15, 2002
3,430
0
Charlotte, NC
TheInedibleHulk said:
Oh we are fully aware of that. We're not the first ones to do this, in fact Ive seen a couple with 1000cc motors. I tried to talk ben into doing just a fast 125, but he bought the chassis and he's got his heart set on the monstercart. As far as killing ourselves, I dont really do anything in which there's not at least some chance of dying, so that's really nothing new. The motor is from our old cart, which was a homemade formula SAE knockoff (fully independent suspension, 13 inch wheels, 4 wheel discs, ect.). Absolutely everything on that car was designed and fabricated by two high school seniors with no real design skills other than common sense. I took that car to about 125 mph and raced a real car on the street. So basically, we know what we're doing, we know it's stupid and ridiculous, and quite frankly... thats the whole point.
Fair enough


Video when you are done please :)
 

BigMike

BrokenbikeMike
Jul 29, 2003
8,933
0
Montgomery county MD
TheInedibleHulk said:
Oh we are fully aware of that. We're not the first ones to do this, in fact Ive seen a couple with 1000cc motors. I tried to talk ben into doing just a fast 125, but he bought the chassis and he's got his heart set on the monstercart. As far as killing ourselves, I dont really do anything in which there's not at least some chance of dying, so that's really nothing new. The motor is from our old cart, which was a homemade formula SAE knockoff (fully independent suspension, 13 inch wheels, 4 wheel discs, ect.). Absolutely everything on that car was designed and fabricated by two high school seniors with no real design skills other than common sense. I took that car to about 125 mph and raced a real car on the street. So basically, we know what we're doing, we know it's stupid and ridiculous, and quite frankly... thats the whole point.
I like the way you think!
 

narlus

Eastcoast Softcore
Staff member
Nov 7, 2001
24,638
26
behind the viewfinder
that kart is rEdiculous. oh my aching stem.

i think an electric chair would do the job faster.

stilll, gotta give you some credit. not sure why, but i think do.