And if its too much. I can just take it off your hands...
JBP's Old Ride
- Thread starter MikeD
- Start date
Rolling thunder.
Found the issue w the new stanchions. Machining left some swarf-y stuff at the top where the top cap threads meet the general internal diameter. Polished it all off with the Dremel and the carts go in fine.
Now if only the headlight ears weren't the hardest thing to assemble on this bike ...ugh!!!
Now if only the headlight ears weren't the hardest thing to assemble on this bike ...ugh!!!
Here are some update pics:
New cart test-fit into tube. There's a discrepancy between the longer Commando-length top caps and the shorter threaded section in these older-style fork tubes.
So there are a few mm I will need to take up with spacers. I hacked up the old bushings to make some and used the disc/belt sander by hand to get them flat and even to within .1mm all round which should suffice. (And I didn't use them...more on that later...)
Put in new turcite bushings. Had some sticking problems at travel extremes; I believe this is from the wear pattern over the bike's life. Not sure if these were necessary, but they are slit to deal with differences in slider diameter, plus apparently a much better sliding surface and longer-wearing than the stock metallic bushings.
Used this very stout cardboard tube as a slide hammer for the bushings and seals. Dunno why I saved it, but since Africa, I save everything I guess.
Cart test fit in, with the spacers under that dashboard.
When I screwed them down, though, I found the spacers I made were still a little too thick and I didn't want to rob the top cap interface of any thread length. So I ordered more fork washers like the ones atop the dash...one set of extra-thick and one standard, which should let me play with the spacing to get it just right.
Foot bolts for the carts have these special washers, too. Had to ensmallen their diameters, so back to the drill-as-lathe routine, plus did some polishing on the ports at the bottom of the sliders to eliminate any casting flash that might be obstructing.
Lastly, I ordered some different headlight ears. It's not gonna be stock, but they're period-correct Ceriani repops and look fairly "desert sled," with the skinny fork tubes between the triple trees rather than the oversized metal shrouding of the stock headlight ears. Keeping the bulky metal shroud setup over the sliders for now, as JBP has advised me that the stock rubber boots like to dry rot, and it's gonna be in storage for a long time. Maybe put the boots on once I'm back and the bike's in regular use again.
New cart test-fit into tube. There's a discrepancy between the longer Commando-length top caps and the shorter threaded section in these older-style fork tubes.
So there are a few mm I will need to take up with spacers. I hacked up the old bushings to make some and used the disc/belt sander by hand to get them flat and even to within .1mm all round which should suffice. (And I didn't use them...more on that later...)
Put in new turcite bushings. Had some sticking problems at travel extremes; I believe this is from the wear pattern over the bike's life. Not sure if these were necessary, but they are slit to deal with differences in slider diameter, plus apparently a much better sliding surface and longer-wearing than the stock metallic bushings.
Used this very stout cardboard tube as a slide hammer for the bushings and seals. Dunno why I saved it, but since Africa, I save everything I guess.
Cart test fit in, with the spacers under that dashboard.
When I screwed them down, though, I found the spacers I made were still a little too thick and I didn't want to rob the top cap interface of any thread length. So I ordered more fork washers like the ones atop the dash...one set of extra-thick and one standard, which should let me play with the spacing to get it just right.
Foot bolts for the carts have these special washers, too. Had to ensmallen their diameters, so back to the drill-as-lathe routine, plus did some polishing on the ports at the bottom of the sliders to eliminate any casting flash that might be obstructing.
Lastly, I ordered some different headlight ears. It's not gonna be stock, but they're period-correct Ceriani repops and look fairly "desert sled," with the skinny fork tubes between the triple trees rather than the oversized metal shrouding of the stock headlight ears. Keeping the bulky metal shroud setup over the sliders for now, as JBP has advised me that the stock rubber boots like to dry rot, and it's gonna be in storage for a long time. Maybe put the boots on once I'm back and the bike's in regular use again.
So youre saying you're not just going to gift me the bike!? FML. And i was so hopeful too!
Offspring deserve it. A bike like that should always be passed down!
Either MikeD is a hack mechanic or British bikes are angry temperamental beasts. For one I know at least the later to be true. I suspect the threads of the suspect damper were probably hand filed and based on some general direction with a unintelligible accent.
Just had an idea. But it may be a little much.
Perhaps I should make threaded collars to fit on the top nut and keep thread engagement the whole way down, rather than using simple spacers. Hmmmm. Could trim them off the top of the old stanchions but don't want to do that. Yet, no one I know will be able to tap the inside of a tube for British threadforms. Hmmm indeed. Little tube with a hole for a hook spanner would sure do the trick tho.
Perhaps I should make threaded collars to fit on the top nut and keep thread engagement the whole way down, rather than using simple spacers. Hmmmm. Could trim them off the top of the old stanchions but don't want to do that. Yet, no one I know will be able to tap the inside of a tube for British threadforms. Hmmm indeed. Little tube with a hole for a hook spanner would sure do the trick tho.
A machine shop can do Whitworth threads, but it won't be cheap.
You overestimate the average shop, at least down here...
Edit: have also come to the conclusion that for 2-3mm of thread engagement it's probably a dumb idea...long as I properly space everything out to use all available thread in the stanchion tube. The sole concern is that these top bolts are AL and not chromed steel like the originals, so I recognize that more thread engagement might be a safe-side kind of idea. Still, the top hex portion bears any stress along with the thread interface, so as long as that's tight down on the top of the stanchion (via spacers) it should be good, to my thinking.
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Got some cheap headlight ears. They look like shit...cheap Chinese chrome and chintzy construction...but were a good proof of concept. Looks pretty cool without the stock fork shrouds even if the brackets aren't the best.
Ordered some genuine ceriani bracket repops (
) in cast AL now that I know the headlamp will fit with a slightly shorter ear.
(Do I get points for old school RM smiley use?)
May be able to get the cartridges fully installed today depending on when mail shows up with the new spacers/washers!
Ed: What I just ordered:
Ordered some genuine ceriani bracket repops (
) in cast AL now that I know the headlamp will fit with a slightly shorter ear.(Do I get points for old school RM smiley use?)
May be able to get the cartridges fully installed today depending on when mail shows up with the new spacers/washers!
Ed: What I just ordered:
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That's a face and front legs there, it is.
Carts finally fit up dry in the legs with the new bushings, and the headlight in the new brackets. The way everything fits together, it is pretty hard to do piecemeal.
Now to get things bolted up and filled with damper oil...! Hope to have a test ride today.
Ed:. Also, my top cap concerns were unfounded. It all fits together fine with the dash and stock washer beneath the top cap.
.
Carts finally fit up dry in the legs with the new bushings, and the headlight in the new brackets. The way everything fits together, it is pretty hard to do piecemeal.
Now to get things bolted up and filled with damper oil...! Hope to have a test ride today.
Ed:. Also, my top cap concerns were unfounded. It all fits together fine with the dash and stock washer beneath the top cap.
Finally there. Damping at the front end is amazing. The cerianis in back are pretty nice, too, after their rebuild.
A nice pair...haven't had the clocks on it in forever, and the tacho works now thanks to the recent overhaul. Speedo was wacky so I need to check the cable.
I like the Ceriani ears...to me, it looks pretty "desert sled" in their incongruity with the fatter lowers. Need to put some black silicone at the shrouds under the clamp to keep water from running inside and then collecting. Drilling the lower shroud for some drainage might also be a good idea.
Best part is the Stig loves her improved passenger space over the Enfield.
Lots of little things to keep tweaking, but now I have a running, plated motorcycle!
Attachments
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First official ride anywhere outside the 'hood...short spin across the Potomac to the outskirts of Georgetown and back...
Alas the tacho drive shat its (ultra-rare and much $$$) innards along the way for no discernible reason. Oh well. Was still a fun ride.
I have been trying to figure out why the tach drive has been so problematic, and also source a new one (or new guts...)
On this subject, some people suggested misalignment of the tach drive cable. The timing cover seems likely to be not original, as it angles the tach drive towards the pipes rather than vertically as in every reference photo I can find, and the path over the pipes is slightly forced.
Ebay happened to have a cover with the proper orientation and a drive for $120 so I took a shot and bought it. Hopefully I can use this tach drive or at least its guts, and the new cover will work without issue (has oil passages and such in it...). TBD...
Repop or used tach drives are $100-300, so hopefully I'm ahead of the curve.
On this subject, some people suggested misalignment of the tach drive cable. The timing cover seems likely to be not original, as it angles the tach drive towards the pipes rather than vertically as in every reference photo I can find, and the path over the pipes is slightly forced.
Ebay happened to have a cover with the proper orientation and a drive for $120 so I took a shot and bought it. Hopefully I can use this tach drive or at least its guts, and the new cover will work without issue (has oil passages and such in it...). TBD...
Repop or used tach drives are $100-300, so hopefully I'm ahead of the curve.
Yeah, there were two flavors of timing covers with different tachometer orientations. I forget how I wound up with the Atlas version.
It was the 70s...shit happened...
Your original is probably still on the floor of Studio 54.
I believe that to be factory, hole used for some machining trick or another.
Looks like it needs to remain plugged as-is; I will see if the set screw is held in somehow. If not, I'll pull it, reinstall with some black RTV or a particular loctite recommended on the Norton board, and stake it in with a punch...
The set screw is retained by the chisel strike across the hole.
I didn't get any tools with the Bridgestone. I did get a new Panaracer Dart and Smoke combo so maybe I should shut up.
I initially thought it was staked with a chisel, but there's actually no interface between the mark and the set screw--in fact it looks to be some sort of cut rather than a chisel mark when I check it closely. In any case, it'll be easy enough to ensure it doesn't move in the future.
Oh, and I'm up for "Bike of the Month!" at dotheton.com!
(If you link to the bike's thread you'll see posts largely the same as I have here...no surprises...)
(If you link to the bike's thread you'll see posts largely the same as I have here...no surprises...)
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So a I got a very clean solution to sealing an exploded tach drive from a respected Norton guy, using epoxy. But I also remembered I had a book on bike restoration a solution that is just a little more "me," which is pounding a nickel in place for a tight friction fit.
Original thin cover, against which the gear turns minus some end play, is underneath. They just tend to come loose, as there is little meat for a good lasting fit between the two.
Honestly, I couldn't say no to the chance to put Thomas Jefferson's face right next to "Made in England," especially as a fix to an engineering deficiency.
Original thin cover, against which the gear turns minus some end play, is underneath. They just tend to come loose, as there is little meat for a good lasting fit between the two.
Honestly, I couldn't say no to the chance to put Thomas Jefferson's face right next to "Made in England," especially as a fix to an engineering deficiency.
Changing out the timing cover sucks as ever.
Resetting timing to 28 deg while the cover is off, as I don't think it is spot-on...think it is more like 33-34 right now. Didn't account for a change in timing over stock resulting from JBP's addition of high comp pistons. (Stock ones were dishes giving 7.6:1 or so...these should be more like 9:1).
Bike is flayed open on both sides again, degree wheel installed and TDC identified. Will do the actual (and tedious) job over the next week or so.
Getting the timing cover back on is a chafe I really don't look forward to, as it never slides on and off easily, which is necessary to gauge an allegedly-even gap all round between cover and cases to ensure a tight seal on the oil pump once it is tightened down. But it is always a little cockeyed and sticky.
Resetting timing to 28 deg while the cover is off, as I don't think it is spot-on...think it is more like 33-34 right now. Didn't account for a change in timing over stock resulting from JBP's addition of high comp pistons. (Stock ones were dishes giving 7.6:1 or so...these should be more like 9:1).
Bike is flayed open on both sides again, degree wheel installed and TDC identified. Will do the actual (and tedious) job over the next week or so.
Getting the timing cover back on is a chafe I really don't look forward to, as it never slides on and off easily, which is necessary to gauge an allegedly-even gap all round between cover and cases to ensure a tight seal on the oil pump once it is tightened down. But it is always a little cockeyed and sticky.
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I won't get into how tedious re-timing it is, but over a few days I got it nailed at 28 degrees (vice 32 due to high comp pistons), found plug gaps were wrong and a few other things from the garage I paid to re-time it initially, found a loosening lead from the mag, and got the carbs better balanced.
Snortin' Norton, indeed, JBP.
Well, now with a different set of internal gears, plus epoxy after yet another detonation.
Carbs off so I can run through them and determine if there's any reason one cylinder is running so differently than the other. I put on new original-style petcocks (less cool than the brass ones, but now with reserve!), fuel line, and filter. Hope maybe I can get it together again tomorrow.
Well, little morning work after Easter candy, and carbs are on with new fuel plumbing.
Tach drive on. Looks good; hope the new gear pair gets on more harmoniously than the previous occupants.
Seems to be running more evenly, so maybe it was some artifact of carb assembly or mounting affecting the LH cyl. But test ride to prove it all to be had shortly. I have been overly optimistic too many times with this thing...
Tach drive on. Looks good; hope the new gear pair gets on more harmoniously than the previous occupants.
Seems to be running more evenly, so maybe it was some artifact of carb assembly or mounting affecting the LH cyl. But test ride to prove it all to be had shortly. I have been overly optimistic too many times with this thing...
See yr email.
As it sits now. Hard to see any changes from before, but the tach drive is fully sealed with epoxy, pointing in a right-er direction, doesn't seem so explode-y (but alas lost the nickel in the last detonation), and there's new fuel plumbing. Sounds super-mean now. Timing to 28 degrees livened it up significantly.
Waiting on some richer pilot jets and a bunch more small things to do. Speedo drive is exceptionally annoying, with the bouncing needle...but first I think there's front brake work to attend to.
The bounciness is the instrument itself, wants a rebuild - it's extremely hard to find someone competent at repairing the instruments.
I got a good, and cheap, guy in the Midwest who did the tach. Works by mail and money order only, lol.
In this case, tho, if you drive the speedo cable with an electric drill, it's smooth as glass. The old speedo drive had a problem engaging the rear hub (I might have damaged it myself!) so I replaced with a repop, but there's something not right where the cable and drive interface. It might be an artifact of the cable, too, but I've gotta look into it. At first glance it seems like the drive doesn't grab the squared inner cable properly. Might be able to swap the ring gear in the genuine Smith's unit too.
In this case, tho, if you drive the speedo cable with an electric drill, it's smooth as glass. The old speedo drive had a problem engaging the rear hub (I might have damaged it myself!) so I replaced with a repop, but there's something not right where the cable and drive interface. It might be an artifact of the cable, too, but I've gotta look into it. At first glance it seems like the drive doesn't grab the squared inner cable properly. Might be able to swap the ring gear in the genuine Smith's unit too.
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