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Zonic Man
Guest
It's all the Catholics' fault (or insert any other religion/belief system differnent than your own).
Jesus Christ gay?
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Tenaciousle0
Guest
I'll stick with blaming the Catholics
It's all part of a vast right wing conspiracy.
Why is it so unbelievable to some people that Jesus was actually rightous?
Could it be because they can't imagine such behavior in themselves?
Why is it so unbelievable to some people that Jesus was actually rightous?
Could it be because they can't imagine such behavior in themselves?
I'm intrigued...please elaborate on this subject. Are you saying that the marketing plan was based on Hitler's beliefs, or Hitler's propaganda tactics, also known as the "spectacle" in postmodern sociological thought. These tactics are used by everyone, like the Superbowl, Democrat and Republican Conventions, and huge sales at department stores.
So please, tell me what you mean by comparing gay media marketing to Mein Kampf.
I'm going to run for cover now. 
Disclaimer: I have no idea what basis exists for his statement.
That being said, from a purely psychological standpoint an argument could be made for community "X" (be it gay, black, hispanic, asian, or eskimo) using the role of downtrodden underdog to attract the sympathy, if not sympathetic membership of those in the majority. Not by any dark closely guarded systematic scheme mind you, but more likely by peoples nature to take up for the underdog.
I think I may have had something to do with forgivn1 deleting that post. The way I understood it, starting with the title "Hope for others" was that forgivn1 believes in an afterlife, therefore his life is worth living because there is hope for something afterwards. As for the rest of us, what hope do we have if we don't believe in the afterlife. What are we living for? I became a bit incensed, and if that caused you to delete it, I apologize, although I was curious to know what others had said after my little rant...er...big rant
Hehe...Originally posted by fourgivn1
I'm going to run for cover now.
"In this corner, we have the bleeding heart liberal lesbian known as LeatherFace...in the other corner, we have a person who equates homosexual movement marketing plans to Mein Kampf. Who will win and who will be damned to Hell? Stay tuned for the next episode of As the Monkey Turns..."
you are correct, i was referring to the marketing tactics not neccassarily beliefs, however, how did hitler win over so many people with such a ludicrous ideal? if you hear something enough, no matter how off the wall, some will eventually take it as fact, look at the theory of evolution as an example. no scientific evidence, gaping holes in the theory and yet it's being taught as fact to our children.
the point is, the "gay agenda" has used hitler's brainwashing tactics to fool a nation into believing that plain 'ole temptation is actually a pre-disposed tendency towards homosexuality. heck, with that mentality i could've gotten away with a lot more at school, "sorry teacher, i didn't do my homework because i was born with a tendency towards watching too much t.v. at night so i can't be held responsible for not turning it in."
zonic man, yes i am happy for my father as well as several hundred others whom i've seen changed in my short life. as far as Nietzsche goes, yes, i have read some of his works and i find him to be someone blessed with an intellectual mind that cannot understand that not all things are meant to be understood. a wise man knows that he knows not all things.
Well, you took it wrong, but I apologize for that. I didn't mean it as "Since the REST of you aren't Christian, and therefore have no hope of an afterlife, what hope DO you have?" I literally meant just what it said....what IS your hope in life, and 'after' life?Originally posted by LeatherFace
I think I may have had something to do with forgivn1 deleting that post. The way I understood it, starting with the title "Hope for others" was that forgivn1 believes in an afterlife, therefore his life is worth living because there is hope for something afterwards. As for the rest of us, what hope do we have if we don't believe in the afterlife. What are we living for? I became a bit incensed, and if that caused you to delete it, I apologize, although I was curious to know what others had said after my little rant...er...big rant
As far as deleting it, I just got tired of first being told it didn't belong there, when I plain made a mistake putting it there (as opposed to being mean/rude on purpose), and THEN essentially being called dumb by one of the members because I said that it was just as wrong for others to spend loads of time responding to the post, and THEN tell me how wrong I am to post there. I said it was the same as arguing with someone for 30 minutes and then saying "But I don't like to argue....why are you arguing with me?" *L*
A side note for everyone...Yes, I'm in the minority here, but a lot of people bugged me in that other post for posting there without thinking, and a LOT of people bugged me on THIS board for presenting my opinions. Has anyone given any thought to the fact that a lot of the topics discussed here are offensive to Christians? I'm guessing NOT. *L* Granted, I think all of the people here who are Christians here understand the nature of this website, and therefore can roll with the punches....I guess what I mean, is 'how about equal rights?'
I'm not saying don't post stuff. What I am saying, is that if people are gonna allow topics like THIS, then don't get your panties in a bunch when I ask about the afterlife. 
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Zonic Man
Guest
Hmmm.....interesting. According to your premised beliefs, your views scarily resemble Fred's. I think you better re-read those books, homey.
right on fourgivn1. i agree wholheartedly that few consider if christians are ever offended, i suppose we're not diverse enough to have rights. some may think that i'm some kind of militant right wing fallwell junkie (actually, i'd never heard of the guy 'till recently) but i'm actually just trying to get people to realize that we as christians will not change our minds on our beliefs, no matter how many times we're stereotyped or mocked. being a christian isn't easy, especially today, if i wanted an easy life i'd claim that i was gay so i could get special treatment under the umbrella of diversity.Originally posted by fourgivn1
A side note for everyone...Yes, I'm in the minority here, but a lot of people bugged me in that other post for posting there without thinking, and a LOT of people bugged me on THIS board for presenting my opinions. Has anyone given any thought to the fact that a lot of the topics discussed here are offensive to Christians? I'm guessing NOT. *L* Granted, I think all of the people here who are Christians here understand the nature of this website, and therefore can roll with the punches....I guess what I mean, is 'how about equal rights?'
and for those curious of the origins of my "mein kampf" allegations:
Transformed Into His Image
by
David Foster
David Foster is a former member of the Washington D.C. chapter of the "Act Up" publication, a militant homosexual group that has played a large role in the homosexual media push. Now a Christian, writing about the miraculous changes in his life and his militant homosexual past.
Oh, you are absolutely right that being gay means you have an easy life...excuse me, but what are you talking about? And please elaborate about these "special rights" you are referring to...what special rights?
Well, I didn't mean for this post to get out of hand or anything of that matter. I have been pondering this question for quite some time now. I just found out about this board, too. I saw the after life thread so I thought it would be o.k. to post this one. I'm sorry if I offended anyone with this, but I think it's a fair enough question, since it does say you can talk about religion as long as you don't preach it, and I'm not preaching that God is gay or God isn't gay, or even if God exists for that matter.
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Tenaciousle0
Guest
It got some good arguments started and that's always a good measuring stick of a thread.
case in point: who is discriminated against most in the media, christians or homosexuals? be honest.
special rights? perhaps a better word would have been "treatment". my son won't be allowed to bring his Bible to school because it may offend someone yet homosexuality is being taught in schools as a normal way of life which offends me. so who's getting the special treatment here? you're allowed to practice a gay lifestyle anywhere in the US if you please but will my children be allowed to openly proclaim their faith in school without being reprimanded? i think not. so you think the homosexual lifestyle is harder than being a christian? try standing up for absolute truth sometime and see what happens.
So are you trying to tell me that you are being persecuted because you are Christian? I dunno, when I was Catholic, I think I had it pretty good. Granted, I went to Catholic school, so the proclamation of faith wasn't a problem: I had religion class everyday and went to Mass twice a week. The education was excellent, and I never experienced any persecution during that lifetime. Oh, but it sounds like you've got it bad, not being able to bring a Bible to school and proclaim your faith in public schools. Meanwhile, I'm supposedly damned to hell, a pervert, a child molester, and cannot have the same rights as straight people.
Tell me, what is a derogatory term for a Christian? And have you ever been called that? I can tell you plenty of names I have and could be called, as well as tense moments of looking over my shoulder because I was afraid someone was going to attack me. Or have you had to move out of an apartment because your roommates were anti-Christian? Yeah, I can see how you would be resentful of the special treatment homosexuals get--give me a break
try arguing your point on the same level. i wasn't referring to private school, and don't confuse catholic school with christianity. who said you were damned to hell? i didn't, you stereotyped me and you do have the same rights as straight people, that's not the issue. you cannot deny that you don't recieve special treatment. scenario 1: college cafeteria. if you were to stand up and say, " hello everyone, i'm a practicing lesbian and i think that all of you should give it a try sometime.", some would chuckle, some would clap but no one would accuse you of pushing anything on them, even if they disagreed. now if i were to stand up in the same cafeteria and say, " hello everyone, i'm a christian and i think you should give it a try sometime", i would be reprimanded and/or ridiculed for pushing my religion on people. now this scenario is on a small scale, try the same scenario in china and see what happens. you would leave the cafeteria with a smile knowing that you just told all of your peers what you stand for, i would have left in handcuffs.Originally posted by LeatherFace
So are you trying to tell me that you are being persecuted because you are Christian? I dunno, when I was Catholic, I think I had it pretty good. Granted, I went to Catholic school, so the proclamation of faith wasn't a problem: I had religion class everyday and went to Mass twice a week. The education was excellent, and I never experienced any persecution during that lifetime. Oh, but it sounds like you've got it bad, not being able to bring a Bible to school and proclaim your faith in public schools. Meanwhile, I'm supposedly damned to hell, a pervert, a child molester, and cannot have the same rights as straight people.
Tell me, what is a derogatory term for a Christian? And have you ever been called that? I can tell you plenty of names I have and could be called, as well as tense moments of looking over my shoulder because I was afraid someone was going to attack me. Or have you had to move out of an apartment because your roommates were anti-Christian? Yeah, I can see how you would be resentful of the special treatment homosexuals get--give me a break
have i been persecuted, no, not in the area of grave danger. have i been afraid for my life because of my beliefs, no (but i am a 225lb former marine so most people don't bother me
)have i been ridiculed and called a "biggot", "bible thumper", "intolerant", "ignorant".......yes.
have i ever ridiculed a person for being homosexual? no
have i been ridiculed by a homosexual? yes
so don't take on the victim bit and tell me how tough it is to be different.
Hmm...how shall I word this so I do not get attacked again?
On the one hand, I shall say that neither group has it easy. While homosexuals DO have it a lot easier than they used to, this by no means, implies that all is a cakewalk. On the other hand, I will have to agree with Tubby on this one as far as Christians being persecuted goes. I'm NOT saying that Christians are being stoned and the like, and homosexuals have it easy. But persecution of Christians HAS stepped up quite a bit. Just because you did not experience much persecution during your time in Catholic school, Leatherface, does not mean others do not. I'm persecuted ALL THE TIME at work in the military. Now, a lot of the so-called 'persecution' is only jokes and ribbing, but I've been beat up in high school by gangs of Christian-bashers, had anti-Christian stuff spray-painted on my car, and the like. I was asking my friend a question once during LUNCH outside the class, and a teacher walked by, and did not even ask what we were doing. (We were NOT preaching. I was asking some benign question.) She tore the Bibles out of our hands and would not give them back to us until my father stormed down to the school and demanded them back, and then got some load of crap about US pushing OUR views on others???
My point (to get to the short of it) is that Christians DO suffer persecution. This is NOT to say "Nyeah nyeah, my persecution was worse than your persecution! Pbbththtbh!" It is simply to say that life for homosexuals in the public eye HAS gotten a bit easier, and it HAS gotten a bit worse for Christians. Even on this site, there is this feeling that we're 'tolerated' not so much as 'accepted.' I have the feeling I'd get kicked out of here a lot faster for stating opinions than someone else. Earlier in this thread is a perfect example.
On the one hand, I shall say that neither group has it easy. While homosexuals DO have it a lot easier than they used to, this by no means, implies that all is a cakewalk. On the other hand, I will have to agree with Tubby on this one as far as Christians being persecuted goes. I'm NOT saying that Christians are being stoned and the like, and homosexuals have it easy. But persecution of Christians HAS stepped up quite a bit. Just because you did not experience much persecution during your time in Catholic school, Leatherface, does not mean others do not. I'm persecuted ALL THE TIME at work in the military. Now, a lot of the so-called 'persecution' is only jokes and ribbing, but I've been beat up in high school by gangs of Christian-bashers, had anti-Christian stuff spray-painted on my car, and the like. I was asking my friend a question once during LUNCH outside the class, and a teacher walked by, and did not even ask what we were doing. (We were NOT preaching. I was asking some benign question.) She tore the Bibles out of our hands and would not give them back to us until my father stormed down to the school and demanded them back, and then got some load of crap about US pushing OUR views on others???
My point (to get to the short of it) is that Christians DO suffer persecution. This is NOT to say "Nyeah nyeah, my persecution was worse than your persecution! Pbbththtbh!" It is simply to say that life for homosexuals in the public eye HAS gotten a bit easier, and it HAS gotten a bit worse for Christians. Even on this site, there is this feeling that we're 'tolerated' not so much as 'accepted.' I have the feeling I'd get kicked out of here a lot faster for stating opinions than someone else. Earlier in this thread is a perfect example.
Originally posted by LeatherFace
Tell me, what is a derogatory term for a Christian? And have you ever been called that? I can tell you plenty of names I have and could be called, as well as tense moments of looking over my shoulder because I was afraid someone was going to attack me. Or have you had to move out of an apartment because your roommates were anti-Christian? Yeah, I can see how you would be resentful of the special treatment homosexuals get--give me a break
Try being compared to people who blow up abortion clinics, the KKK, White Supremacists etc. Christianity has it's share of negative connotations. Some of which are just as unsavory as yours.
Certainly not all gay people are pedophiles, neither are all Christians members of the Aryan Nation.
The door of hatered swings from both sides of the aisle.
Amen. (I mean that in an affirmative way, not a Christian way.
) Agreed with everything here; I DO hope no one thinks that by arguing from a Christian point of view, we are taking up the banner for those people who DO misrepresent Christianity ridiculously.
Could you, just once, disagree with someone without attempt to belittle them or wave your intellectual dick in the air?
Or is this more of your widely appreciated candor?
Your erudition, however great or small, becomes far less impressive when it is presented in such a manner.
Even if YOU disagree with Nitzche (Linebacker for the Packers right?), there must be some validity to his work to warrant it's inclusion in so many curriculi.
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Tenaciousle0
Guest
Ray was the king!!!
First of all, I think this is a ridiculous scenario. Have you ever witnessed this occur? And I wouldn't have the guts to do this because I don't think I would get the chuckles and claps. And why would a gay person tell unknown orientated people to "try it?" You don't just "try" being gay, that's who you are. Ridiculous. Maybe I would stand up and say I was a lesbian, but I would never say everyone should "try it" like it was a new flavor of soda or dance step. I don't know, have you ever witnessed this occurring? If you have, then I stand corrected.
Traversing my college campus, I don't recall any gays standing out in the open, preaching to college students that they should find their inner gayness and convert. I did experience on more than one occasion Christians doing this, to the point of being intrusive and aggressive.Originally posted by tubby
now if i were to stand up in the same cafeteria and say, " hello everyone, i'm a christian and i think you should give it a try sometime", i would be reprimanded and/or ridiculed for pushing my religion on people. now this scenario is on a small scale, try the same scenario in china and see what happens. you would leave the cafeteria with a smile knowing that you just told all of your peers what you stand for, i would have left in handcuffs.
have i been persecuted, no, not in the area of grave danger. have i been afraid for my life because of my beliefs, no (but i am a 225lb former marine so most people don't bother me
I didn't think I was "taking on the victim bit," I was merely stating how it is for gays most of the time. You just don't want to believe it for some reason, and you think that homosexuality can be compared to Christianity. They are two completely different things.
Not to start an off-topic tangent on this interesting thread, but I'd like to state that I, and the literate world in general, have no problem accepting the preponderance of evidence for evolution. We've been over this with JesusFreak and I will say no more on this subject.
As for persecution of Christians vs. homosexuals I can't really comment, as I am neither Christian nor homosexual, but I, both in Catholic school and in my secular college now, have not witnessed any Christian-bashing, while I have witnessed verbal abuse of homosexuals. Anecdotal evidence is meaningless, yadda yadda yadda, but add another point to the graph.
As for persecution of Christians vs. homosexuals I can't really comment, as I am neither Christian nor homosexual, but I, both in Catholic school and in my secular college now, have not witnessed any Christian-bashing, while I have witnessed verbal abuse of homosexuals. Anecdotal evidence is meaningless, yadda yadda yadda, but add another point to the graph.
Instead of fighting over who has it worse, can we just agree that NEITHER should be persecuted? Actually, I might be in a minority in thinking that neither homosexuality NOR christianity is wrong...
fourgivn1, where are you from? I have never heard of (let alone witnessed) the type of Christian bashing you spoke of. In the small town Ohio public school I attended there was certainly no issue with students, teachers, or coaches openly declaring their Christianity and asking others to join them in prayer. In fact, I probably prayed more Christian prayers than Jewish (my family is Jewish) just making it through highschool sports...
At the same time I had teachers telling me AIDs was a good thing because it killed off all the sinners, "especially the fags."Fast-forward to college, liberal (though not as much as some) north-eastern institution, there were some minor conflicts between campus crusade for Christ and the Rainbow Alliance where they'd each go crying to their respective publishing organizations, but all in all they both had it very easy. They could rant and rave all they wanted. If I had to pick I'd say the Rainbow Alliance had a free-er voice, but the CCC sure had better resources and funding. Who cares? They should both be allowed to preach whatever the hell they want.
my point is it all depends heavily on where you are, and no matter where you go there will be ignorant people with prejudices. That doesn't make it right, and one group being persecuted more than another doesn't make any of the persecution insignificant. No one should be keeping score of who has it worse where... just how to fix it.
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RideMonkey
Guest
This is true. The reason is that Christians are one of the most closed-minded, judgemental, holier than thou groups of people I have ever encountered. I speak from personal experience in my own family.
Homosexuals are simply a group of people trying to make the best of a bad situation. They arent attacking or condemning other groups in our society. I can live with those that are different than I, but I can't live with people that hate.
That said, I must say that you are one of the most reasonable Christians I have conversed with Fourgivn1 (yes thats a compliment).
I second that one
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Zonic Man
Guest
Have you been drinking?
Where did I disagree with my man Freddie? I think my post was more in regards to Tubby not speaking ignorantly (that is, without prior knowledge of the topic to which he speaks) regarding a philosopher's views.
Contempt prior to investigation. All the kids are doing it.
Who cares people, if Jesus was gay, then he was gay and if not then he was not. If I remember correctly Jesus died a Jew not a Christian so anything is possible, maybe that chapter of the bible was missing maybe someone spilled wine on it or something and couldn't translate it. Know one will ever know...................will they?
And us illiterates keep on believing in creation.Originally posted by Toshi
Not to start an off-topic tangent on this interesting thread, but I'd like to state that I, and the literate world in general, have no problem accepting the preponderance of evidence for evolution. We've been over this with JesusFreak and I will say no more on this subject.
You're essentially saying that thousands of accounts of being persecuted would be meaningless because they weren't gathered (the accounts, that is) in a controlled study. Silly question, but isn't your account of not witnessing Christian-bashing while witnessing homosexual-bashing also an anecdote? Just because you have never seen Christian-bashing does not mean it does not exist. We Christians don't set out to MANUFACTURE stories of persecution, just like I know that Leatherface and others don't manufacture stories of persecution. I definitely understand the desire for empirical evidence and such in cases like this, but I beg to differ when people say that ONLY empirical evidence is admissible, and everything else means nothing.
Thanks. I think.
You know what kills me though? The ENTIRE REASON that pretty much all Christians ARE viewed as closed-minded and holier-than-thou is because they all miss that one little scripture in their supposed Bible studies. The one that says "If I speak in the tongues of men and angels, but have not love, I have become sounding brass or a tinkling symbol." It makes it bad for the rest of us guys who actually believe what they believe, know WHY they believe, can back it up with quite a bit of proof, and DO try to keep the peace and understand others and 'reason together.'
I'm from Chicago...although I grew up in Wisconsin/Kansas/Missouri/Florida/South Carolina/Georgia/Illinois.Originally posted by ohio
Instead of fighting over who has it worse, can we just agree that NEITHER should be persecuted? Actually, I might be in a minority in thinking that neither homosexuality NOR christianity is wrong...
fourgivn1, where are you from? I have never heard of (let alone witnessed) the type of Christian bashing you spoke of. In the small town Ohio public school I attended there was certainly no issue with students, teachers, or coaches openly declaring their Christianity and asking others to join them in prayer. In fact, I probably prayed more Christian prayers than Jewish (my family is Jewish) just making it through highschool sports...
Fast-forward to college, liberal (though not as much as some) north-eastern institution, there were some minor conflicts between campus crusade for Christ and the Rainbow Alliance where they'd each go crying to their respective publishing organizations, but all in all they both had it very easy. They could rant and rave all they wanted. If I had to pick I'd say the Rainbow Alliance had a free-er voice, but the CCC sure had better resources and funding. Who cares? They should both be allowed to preach whatever the hell they want.
my point is it all depends heavily on where you are, and no matter where you go there will be ignorant people with prejudices. That doesn't make it right, and one group being persecuted more than another doesn't make any of the persecution insignificant. No one should be keeping score of who has it worse where... just how to fix it.
I am not saying I got bashed everywhere I went, but it did occur. Although this doesn't count because it's an 'anecdote.' Agreed on the point about both being persecuted, and not keeping score. Throughout this whole board I think that whole point was missed by a lot of people (including myself at times).
Thanks!.....*sniff* You guys are the best.....I need a hug.....Originally posted by LeatherFace
I second that one
Everyone join hands and sing along with me...
"Goombayah, my (insert personal deity or abstain voluntarily), Goombayah.... Goombayah, my (insert personal deity or abstain voluntarily), Goombayah...."
Well He really couldn't have been Christian, I think, since it's sort of tough to be a follower of a religion that you are the FOCUS of.
Now there's an interesting question....CAN you be a proponent (by proponent I mean more of a follower-type advocate, not just an advocate) of a religion that you are the focus of?
You gods out there pipe down. I'd rather hear from the mere mortals on this one.
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gravity
Guest
why are Catholics always bashed on for everything? I'm a Catholic by denomination, although i don't practice i do believe in God, and although the Catholic church has repeatedly screwed up (up meaning little boys 
), why does that make it every Catholic's fault?
anyway, where does the bible condemn homosexuality? (just asking where cos i don't know, not saying it doesn't or anything)
i feel sorry for gays, not because they are gay, but because so many people are prejudiced against them. however, i don't believe that gays should be given the ability to have kids through IVF or sperm donation, that really IS playing God....
), why does that make it every Catholic's fault?anyway, where does the bible condemn homosexuality? (just asking where cos i don't know, not saying it doesn't or anything)
i feel sorry for gays, not because they are gay, but because so many people are prejudiced against them. however, i don't believe that gays should be given the ability to have kids through IVF or sperm donation, that really IS playing God....
A buncha places....here's a few.....
Romans 1:26-27: "For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature: And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet."
Leviticus 18:22: 'Do not lie with a man as one lies with a woman; that is detestable.'
Also Leviticus 20:13.
And the most inflammatory one:
1 Corinthians 6:9. "Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders ... ...shall enter the kingdom of God."
I think you get the point concerning the Bible's viewpoint on homosexuality.
I can't believe Tubby thinks homosexuals have it easier than Christians. I don't know about you, but I've never seen any homosexuals condeming christians for their beliefs. But I have seen Christians gather at anti-gay rallies. Plus, I'd be happy if any teachers or principals or any official would take away any Bibles in schools, or in any public place other than churches (and religous schools). Religion shouldn't be preached or be forced on people. Plus I've never seen homosexuals preaching about how Christians should turn gay either.
I'll pipe in on this one.............................Who cares, if a gay person wants a child let them have a child, even if it means artificial imsemination(spell). If a gay person has a child it really has no effect on my life what so ever as I'm sure it wont effect anyone else. Everyone is so quick to judge right from wrong, it seems like if its not written in the good book it must be wrong. Now that pisses me off almost more than Hippies:angry:
I agree with you, partially. I agree with the part that homosexuals should be able to have children. Where I disagree with you is, it may not affect YOU, but it might have some psychological affects on the child.