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Jobless Claims in U.S. Fall to 353,000, Matching Lowest Level Since 2001

N8 v2.0

Not the sharpest tool in the shed
Oct 18, 2002
11,003
149
The Cleft of Venus
Jobless Claims in U.S. Fall to 353,000, Matching Lowest Level Since 2001
12/18/03 | Bloomberg

U.S. Initial Jobless Claims Fell to 353,000 Last Week (Update1) Dec. 18 (Bloomberg) -- The number of Americans filing first- time applications for state unemployment benefits fell to 353,000 last week, matching an almost three-year low and suggesting the economy will add jobs for a fifth month in December.

Initial jobless claims fell by a larger-than-expected 22,000 in the week that ended Saturday, the first decrease in three weeks, from a revised 375,000 a week earlier, the Labor Department said in Washington. Claims also totaled 353,000 in the last week of October, the lowest since January 2001.

Best Buy Co. and Agilent Technologies Inc. are among companies hiring as the economy improves. Rising employment and wage growth may help boost spending and underpin the expansion.

``There is every reason to expect payroll growth to accelerate over the next few months,'' said Ian Shepherdson, chief U.S. economist at High Frequency Economics in Valhalla, New York.

Economists had expected claims would fall to 365,000, based on the median of 40 forecasts in a Bloomberg News survey, from the 378,000 initially reported for the week earlier. Forecasts ranged from 350,000 to 380,000. The report coincides with the week the government surveys businesses to determine whether they added or shed jobs this month.

Claims around 370,000 are historically consistent with a gain of 100,000 to 150,000 payroll jobs, according to research by economists at Lehman Brothers Inc. in New York. The December employment report is to be released on Jan. 9.

The four-week moving average of claims, a less-volatile indicator, fell to 361,750 from 364,000.

Continuing Claims

The number of people continuing to collect state jobless benefits rose to 3.34 million in the week that ended Dec. 6 from 3.31 million a week earlier. The four-week average of continuing claims dropped to 3.33 million, the lowest since September 2001.

The insured employment rate, which tends to track the U.S. jobless rate, held at 2.6 percent in the week ended Dec. 6. The Labor Department also said 40 states and territories reported an increase in new claims, while 13 reported a decrease. These data are reported with a one-week lag.

Two-thirds of U.S. chief financial officers said their companies plan to boost hiring in 2004, according to the results of a survey issued yesterday of 236 executives and conducted by Financial Executives International and Duke University's Fuqua School of Business.

The number of employees is expected to increase 2 percent next year, compared with their projections six months ago that there would be no increase, the survey showed. About 14 percent said their payrolls would shrink.

`Significant Growth'

``We are expecting significant growth also as we go into the upcoming year,'' said Brad Anderson, chief executive of Best Buy, the largest U.S. electronics chain, in a televised interview with Bloomberg News yesterday. The Richfield, Minnesota-based retailer is planning on opening 80 stores next year as earnings more than doubled last quarter. The openings will mean ``more hiring and a continued kind of robust investment in inventories,'' said Anderson.

Production at the nation's factories, utilities and mines rose 0.9 percent last month, the biggest increase since October 1999, the Federal Reserve reported yesterday.

``Output is expanding briskly, and the labor market appears to be improving modestly,'' said Fed policy makers last week in announcing they were holding the target for their benchmark interest rate at a 45-year low of 1 percent. With inflation low and resources, such as factories and workers, not being fully utilized, the central bankers said they could keep the target rate low ``for a considerable period.''

Members of the Fed's rate-setting Open Market Committee said signs of economic growth, while encouraging, still may not generate substantial numbers of new jobs until late 2005, according to minutes from their Oct. 28 meeting that were released last week.

Unemployment Rate

The economy added a smaller-than-forecast 57,000 jobs last month, a fourth consecutive gain, according to figures from the Labor Department. The unemployment rate dropped to an eight-month low of 5.9 percent.

An index of New York manufacturing employment rose this month to match the highest reading since its inception in July 1997, according to figures earlier this week from the New York Fed. The reading held above zero for a third month, signaling factory employment in that region was expanding.

``We don't expect to do any more firings,'' said Ned Barnholt, chief executive of Agilent, the world's biggest maker of scientific testing equipment, in an interview last week. ``We will be selectively hiring back engineers and customer-support staff.''

After firing thousands of employees and undertaking other cost-saving measures, Agilent had a profit of $13 million in the quarter ended Oct. 31, following seven quarterly losses.


"And [Tom] Daschle... was last seen curled up in the fetal position... crying like an infant with colic.
 

ohio

The Fresno Kid
Nov 26, 2001
6,649
26
SF, CA
Originally posted by N8
I wonder when the Dem's will quit complaining about the economy...?
Good lord, you're a tool.

1. EVERYONE was complaining about the economy a year ago.
2. Dems are complaining about Bush's handling of it, not the economy itself.
3. Stop forcing me to defend the democrats. I don't particularly like them, but you keep making ridiculous statements and I have no choice but to correct you.
 

N8 v2.0

Not the sharpest tool in the shed
Oct 18, 2002
11,003
149
The Cleft of Venus
Originally posted by ohio
Good lord, you're a tool.

1. EVERYONE was complaining about the economy a year ago.
2. Dems are complaining about Bush's handling of it, not the economy itself.
3. Stop forcing me to defend the democrats. I don't particularly like them, but you keep making ridiculous statements and I have no choice but to correct you.

Heh heh....

:devil:
 

Westy

the teste
Nov 22, 2002
56,390
22,464
Sleazattle
Unemployement rates do not reflect the numbers of people who:
1) have been unemployed so long they no longer qualify for unemployement.
2)People who had to settle for crappy jobs to pay the mortgage, the underemployed.

The economy is getting better, it actually was never a recession. But the job market still sucks. Hopefully the economy can stay on the same path and start creating GOOD jobs.
 

N8 v2.0

Not the sharpest tool in the shed
Oct 18, 2002
11,003
149
The Cleft of Venus
Originally posted by Westy
Unemployement rates do not reflect the numbers of people who:
1) have been unemployed so long they no longer qualify for unemployement.
2)People who had to settle for crappy jobs to pay the mortgage, the underemployed.

The economy is getting better, it actually was never a recession. But the job market still sucks. Hopefully the economy can stay on the same path and start creating GOOD jobs.

...and well they should!!!

If you have been out of work for a year then you need to get your act together and go flip burgers or something. Either you're not actively looking for work or are not employable.

If you are under employed and resentful, then you either need to get an education in a field that actually has a demand or move to where the jobs are!
 

Westy

the teste
Nov 22, 2002
56,390
22,464
Sleazattle
Originally posted by N8
...and well they should!!!

If you have been out of work for a year then you need to get your act together and go flip burgers or something. Either you're not actively looking for work or are not employable.

If you are under employed and resentful, then you either need to get an education in a field that actually has a demand or move to where the jobs are!
How would a bunch of people with families and mortgages flipping burgers reflect on a good economy?

I appreciate your advice but I am well employed, some would say overemployed. But I get emails daily from people looking for jobs, and I can provide them with little help. They all end up finding jobs which typically suck. The point I am trying to make is we can't look at lower unemployement rates and think everything is great if people are working at ****ty jobs. Individual statistics are useless, you need to look at the big picture. But as I said before the economy is getting better and hopefully this will translate into more good jobs.
 

LordOpie

MOTHER HEN
Oct 17, 2002
21,022
3
Denver
Originally posted by N8
If you have been out of work for a year then you need to get your act together and go flip burgers or something. Either you're not actively looking for work or are not employable.

If you are under employed and resentful, then you either need to get an education in a field that actually has a demand or move to where the jobs are!
wow, how wonderful it is to be you and live in your rose colored world.

ya know nate, you're an @sshole.
 

Jr_Bullit

I'm sooo teenie weenie!!!
Sep 8, 2001
2,028
1
North of Oz
Originally posted by N8
...and well they should!!!

If you have been out of work for a year then you need to get your act together and go flip burgers or something. Either you're not actively looking for work or are not employable.

If you are under employed and resentful, then you either need to get an education in a field that actually has a demand or move to where the jobs are!
Pull your head out from beneath the smelly wool sock you pulled over it as a kid...lol

I thought as much when my Da went unemployed for a little over two years! A man who had managed training departments for large IT companies his whole life!!!! :eek:

He's got a job now he likes, it's fun, it's easy going, it pays him **** and and his boss treats him like dirt ....but at least he's in a field where coming across as older is a benefit and not a negative. The reason he was fired? Ya, he turned 50 - his hair went almost white, and his pot belly got a little bigger. What was the reason they gave him? Downsizing...thank goodness they went out of business shortly after he left them...bastards.

What I came away with from watching and learning from their experience, is no matter how skilled you may be, how well educated, how much history you have in that particular area, there are always factors you are fighting against, and in the IT world, you fight against age and age discrimination big time.

Anyways, that was sort of long winded, but I now understand why it can be detrimental to go flip burgers at McD's rather than to hold your ground and hold out as long as you can to get a good job that at least gives you the respect you have earned through previous careers, if not the monetary gain you are accostomed to receiving.
 

Damn True

Monkey Pimp
Sep 10, 2001
4,015
3
Between a rock and a hard place.
Originally posted by N8
...and well they should!!!

If you have been out of work for a year then you need to get your act together and go flip burgers or something. Either you're not actively looking for work or are not employable.

If you are under employed and resentful, then you either need to get an education in a field that actually has a demand or move to where the jobs are!
What these numbers don't capture is how many people have been unemployed so long that their unemployment insurance has been exhausted.

...and in ref to your above comments. It ain't that easy bro. I was out of work for eleven months. In that time I pumped out between five and six THOUSAND copies of my resume to every available opening I could find between Denver and Honolulu. In that time I recieved exactly 4 responses. None of which panned out. Heck I couldn't get a call back from Home Depot.

There comes a time when the number of unemployed people so far outweighs the number of available jobs that finding one of those jobs becomes nearly impossible.

If a company is looking for a candidate for a job they will take the first person who meets the qualifications and stop looking. Your odds of being near the top of the pile of resume's in that process when there are so many out of work qualified people are pretty dang low.

..and as for moving to where the jobs are......hello, if you have been out of work for months, unemployment hardly offers enough to pay the costs associated with staying where you are, let alone the costs of moving.
 

LordOpie

MOTHER HEN
Oct 17, 2002
21,022
3
Denver
Originally posted by Damn True
That aint cool dude.

Disagree, but don't be disagreable.
nah, fvck that and fvck ignorant people like him. And here's why...

Heck I couldn't get a call back from Home Depot.
Do you know why you didn't? It's because you're OVERqualified. N8 probably thinks that's a myth. And anyone who does needs to pull their head out of their @ss. Home Depot does NOT want to hire you, train you, and then you quit 3 months later for a job you really want and are qualified for.
 

N8 v2.0

Not the sharpest tool in the shed
Oct 18, 2002
11,003
149
The Cleft of Venus
..whaaa, whaaa, whaaa....

I have a degree in electrical engineering and when I got laid off from my job at the local power company (as a senior distribution design engineer) after it was aquired by an "yet another evil American corporation" I too was outta work. Yeah it sucked... it sucked bad... for a couple weeks... but then I got a job working at a resturant, then I worked for an appliance retailer, and worked at a Toyota dealership. All the time I was send my resume out to anyplace I could think of locally for a job in engineering. When I saw that my chances were slim here at home, I applied for jobs hundreds of miles away in Dallas, Lawton OK, Austin Tx, and Alberquerque NM.

I eventually got a job working at a local A&E firm as an electrical engineer with no benefits and at a low pay. From there I worked my way into a better job... and then a better one.

Yeah all this took several months... and I had to work at jobs that sucked, but ya know what... I did.

So shove off **EDITED TO COMPLY WITH FORUM RULES**.

:monkey:

If you want work then you can find it. But quit crying that the "Unemployment Numbers" should be Underemployed Numbers" because they are not.

I'm I underemployed too? Sure.. I deserve a $100M per year job to just look pretty and screw off.

:cool:
 

Damn True

Monkey Pimp
Sep 10, 2001
4,015
3
Between a rock and a hard place.
Originally posted by N8
..whaaa, whaaa, whaaa....

I have a degree in electrical engineering and when I got laid off from my job at the local power company (as a senior distribution design engineer) after it was aquired by an "yet another evil American corporation" I too was outta work. Yeah it sucked... it sucked bad... for a couple weeks but then I got a job working at a resturant, then I worked for an appliance retailer, and worked at a Toyota dealership. All the time I was send my resume out to anyplace I could think of locally for a job in engineering. When I saw that my chances were slim here at home, I applied for jobs hundreds of miles away in Dallas, Lawton OK, Austin Tx, and Alberquerque NM.

I eventually got a job working at a local A&E firm as an electrical engineer with no benefits and at a low pay. From there I worked my way into a better job... and then a better one.

Yeah all this took several months... and I had to work at jobs that sucked, but ya know what... I did. So shove off bee + itch...

:monkey:

If you want work then you can find it. But quit crying that the "Unemployment Numbers" should be Underemployed Numbers" because they are not.

I'm I underemployed too? Sure.. I deserve a $100M per year job to just look pretty and screw off.

:cool:
Gee no-$hit, I hadn't thought of any of that :rolleyes:
The thing is, in an area like Silicon Valley with more outta work engineers, sales&marketing, HR, in addition to skilled trades construction (ain't nobody building stuff), facilities maint compaines are closing altogether or shutting down buildings and reducing maint. staff, manufacturing, resturaunts and bars are closing due to reduced business, hell, even cops firefighters and teachers are getting canned out here. All of these folks out of work, the number of companies with jobs at an all time low, the companies themselves dropping like flies it just dosen't work that way.

I understand what you are saying, however your POV is of a different area with a different economy. Your logic does not apply to this environment.
 

N8 v2.0

Not the sharpest tool in the shed
Oct 18, 2002
11,003
149
The Cleft of Venus
Originally posted by Damn True
Gee no-$hit, I hadn't thought of any of that :rolleyes:
The thing is, in an area like Silicon Valley with more outta work engineers, sales&marketing, HR, in addition to skilled trades construction (ain't nobody building stuff), facilities maint compaines are closing altogether or shutting down buildings and reducing maint. staff, manufacturing, resturaunts and bars are closing due to reduced business, hell, even cops firefighters and teachers are getting canned out here. All of these folks out of work, the number of companies with jobs at an all time low, the companies themselves dropping like flies it just dosen't work that way.

I understand what you are saying, however your POV is of a different area with a different economy. Your logic does not apply to this environment.
True, True.

A couple, who are good friends of mine, left Milpitas this pastspring. She worked as an computer graphic designer for Philips and her husband worked for another Silicon company. Well, they were laid off this past winter and wound up selling their house and buying a beautiful hacienda just outside Santa Fe. He works for the NM State Movie/Film office and she works for a coffee house and a computer call center.

She says the best thing they did was get the heck outta there when they did.

edit: BTW, she's an ex-coastie too... what's the connection with the CG and Silicon Valley..???
 

N8 v2.0

Not the sharpest tool in the shed
Oct 18, 2002
11,003
149
The Cleft of Venus
Originally posted by Westy
Unemployement rates do not reflect the numbers of people who:
1) have been unemployed so long they no longer qualify for unemployement.
2)People who had to settle for crappy jobs to pay the mortgage, the underemployed.

The economy is getting better, it actually was never a recession. But the job market still sucks. Hopefully the economy can stay on the same path and start creating GOOD jobs.
So at what unemployment rate will you concede there has been a recovery?

When was the last time in American history the economy was "good" in your opinion?
 

Westy

the teste
Nov 22, 2002
56,390
22,464
Sleazattle
Originally posted by N8
So at what unemployment rate will you concede there has been a recovery?

When was the last time in American history the economy was "good" in your opinion?
The whole point I have been trying to get at is that the unemployement rate, sorry "Jobless Claims", is not a very good indicator of the economy or job market. IMHO the economy has been good since '97. At no point did the economy stop growing, it just grew at a slower rate. My house is worth 30% more than it was 3 years ago. The stock market sucked for a while but it was just making an adjustment to corporate scams and interet shams, but that is a different story. I will concede that there has been a "job market" recovery when I stop hearing personal stories of smart hard working people who struggle finding work. And hopefully that time will come very soon.
 

Westy

the teste
Nov 22, 2002
56,390
22,464
Sleazattle
N8,

Here is data that I think does a good job at describing the health of the economy. Capacity utilization, the percentage of what is actually produced vs what can be produced. It is largely a industrial indicator, but seeing as though doctors use tongue depressors, banks use computers etc. the whole economy affects the numbers. When utilization hits about 80% companies start investing into building their capitol base and the $$$'s really start to fly.
 

N8 v2.0

Not the sharpest tool in the shed
Oct 18, 2002
11,003
149
The Cleft of Venus
Interesting graphic... Does show an uptick on the left end.


Humm..

Looks like I need some Econ experts to tell me what it is it shows... and what it means in the Big Picture.

:monkey:

In the meantime here's a new graph to ponder:
 

Westy

the teste
Nov 22, 2002
56,390
22,464
Sleazattle
Originally posted by N8
Interesting graphic... Does show an uptick on the left end.


Humm..

Looks like I need some Econ experts to tell me what it is it shows... and what it means in the Big Picture.

:monkey:
Cross your fingers that that uptick keeps ticking up.:cool:


Edit: more info here
 

Damn True

Monkey Pimp
Sep 10, 2001
4,015
3
Between a rock and a hard place.
Originally posted by N8
True, True.


edit: BTW, she's an ex-coastie too... what's the connection with the CG and Silicon Valley..???
Smart folks in the CG. I guess they gravitate to area's with industries looking for smart folks. I have run into about seven people, in totally random places, that I knew when I was in the CG.

What did she do in the CG?
 

N8 v2.0

Not the sharpest tool in the shed
Oct 18, 2002
11,003
149
The Cleft of Venus
Originally posted by Damn True
Smart folks in the CG. I guess they gravitate to area's with industries looking for smart folks. I have run into about seven people, in totally random places, that I knew when I was in the CG.

What did she do in the CG?
She did four years in the Coast Guard (83-87). Her first year on an ice breaker in Antarctica, the following year in Long Beach (San Pedro, CA) at the support center working for the Facilities Officer, the last two years on the Support Base in Kodiak working again for facilities.

Netscape hired her post IPO (Jan 96), she says she had never worked with a more arrogant group of people, even with options she bailed in 6 months and went to work for a failing monitor/mac clone company Radius. About a year before Radius' demise a friend of hers hired her to wrap up a demo program for Umax, a mac clone group and Apple was not going to renew their license.

She ended up working for Philips as a marcom manager until she got laid off and moved to New Mexico.

I guess you could say she moved from where the jobs arn't to where the are kinda scarce but even though she's living in the most expensive part of NM (Santa Fe) it's nothing compared to SV.

She and her husband moved there, amoung other reasons, because he's an avid MTB'er...!
 

Damn True

Monkey Pimp
Sep 10, 2001
4,015
3
Between a rock and a hard place.
Originally posted by N8
She did four years in the Coast Guard (83-87). Her first year on an ice breaker in Antarctica, the following year in Long Beach (San Pedro, CA) at the support center working for the Facilities Officer, the last two years on the Support Base in Kodiak working again for facilities.

Netscape hired her post IPO (Jan 96), she says she had never worked with a more arrogant group of people, even with options she bailed in 6 months and went to work for a failing monitor/mac clone company Radius. About a year before Radius' demise a friend of hers hired her to wrap up a demo program for Umax, a mac clone group and Apple was not going to renew their license.

She ended up working for Philips as a marcom manager until she got laid off and moved to New Mexico.
Interesting career path.
I went from CG aviation (OR,NC,NYC,HI) into Semiconductor Equipment with Novellus Systems (I was a technical instructor for the companies Field Service engineers). Laid off in Oct of last year. Outta work for ten months, treading water in a BS job now.
 

N8 v2.0

Not the sharpest tool in the shed
Oct 18, 2002
11,003
149
The Cleft of Venus
Well, I know she said it sucks out there and she's happy she left... have you considered moving? I hear that several SV companies are relocating outside of CA (cuz of the horrible taxes). Such places as Alb, Austin, Salt Lake, Chandler AZ...

Have you already looked at that link I posted earlier in this thread about IT Jobs?
 

Damn True

Monkey Pimp
Sep 10, 2001
4,015
3
Between a rock and a hard place.
Originally posted by N8
Well, I know she said it sucks out there and she's happy she left... have you considered moving? I hear that several SV companies are relocating outside of CA (cuz of the horrible taxes). Such places as Alb, Austin, Salt Lake, Chandler AZ...
Semiconductor Equipment is still locked up tighter than a ducks butt. They are entirely dependant on the above posted capacity graph. Intel and the rest dosen't build and outfit a fab until they are well in the black. Therefore the cyclic nature of the Semiconductor industry is magnified exponential degree in the equipment side of things.

I really don't want to get back into that industry. I spent the last nine months with that company wondering if today would be the day I got laid off. Novellus was pretty great, they held off as long as possible, much longer than Applied Materials, in hopes of riding out the storm. They wanted to move my department to OR and I wanted the move, but the layoff came down to dollars and cents. The thing is, they were paying me more dollars and cents than anyone else in the department.

Id like to move into something in a similar capacity, leaning more toward project management in the medical equipment industry. But for some reason there is a tremendous roadblock for former semiconducter types (confirmed by dozens of headhunters) in moving to other industries. Dunno what it's all about, but they say that they have the hardest time cross-placing people from semiconductor and aviation.

Hey, neat. My resume is both.
 

LordOpie

MOTHER HEN
Oct 17, 2002
21,022
3
Denver
Originally posted by N8
Yeah all this took several months...
oh, sorry, I didn't realize you had to deal with such stress for "several months". How in the world did you manage?! That must have been soooo hard for you. You have my undying sympathy and admiration!
 

Westy

the teste
Nov 22, 2002
56,390
22,464
Sleazattle
Originally posted by LordOpie
oh, sorry, I didn't realize you had to deal with such stress for "several months". How in the world did you manage?! That must have been soooo hard for you. You have my undying sympathy and admiration!
Thank goodness, we are back to arguing. For a second there I thought Greenspan himself would be posting.:D
 

N8 v2.0

Not the sharpest tool in the shed
Oct 18, 2002
11,003
149
The Cleft of Venus

LordO'pie:
oh, sorry, I didn't realize you had to deal with such stress for "several months". How in the world did you manage?! That must have been soooo hard for you. You have my undying sympathy and admiration!


Why thank you!!!!!!

Westy:
Thank goodness, we are back to arguing. For a second there I thought Greenspan himself would be posting. :)


No $hit! Lib punks!


:p
 

N8 v2.0

Not the sharpest tool in the shed
Oct 18, 2002
11,003
149
The Cleft of Venus
Originally posted by Westy
Did you just call me a liberal?
:eek:




In other newz: Did ya know some of the best stock buys the past year or so, have been the Evil Capitalist Companies who laid off people; in many cases union thugs?

So when these companies are highlighted as Evil, you might want to check them out as a potential investment.
 

Westy

the teste
Nov 22, 2002
56,390
22,464
Sleazattle
Originally posted by N8
:eek:

In other newz: Did ya know some of the best stock buys the past year or so, have been the Evil Capitalist Companies who laid off people; in many cases union thugs?

So when these companies are highlighted as Evil, you might want to check them out as a potential investment.
Just wondering, because I am actually a fairly conservative person, registered republican and voted for them in every election since I was 18, cept for George Jr. of course. I am just not nearly as conservative as you, guess that makes me a liberal.


Yep Corporations lay of people all the time, usually to cut costs when revenue is low and business is down. But there are companies that lay people off to bring in numbers at the end of a quarter or year so stock prices will go up. When this is done for short term number it often hurts a company in the long run. They then must hire someone back and retrain them increasing overall costs, this is not good in the long term. These decisions are often not even made for the health of a company but for the good of a few powerful people. I am not a day trader, I will try to invest my money in compnies that will be profitable years from now.
 

N8 v2.0

Not the sharpest tool in the shed
Oct 18, 2002
11,003
149
The Cleft of Venus
Originally posted by Westy
Just wondering, because I am actually a fairly conservative person, registered republican and voted for them in every election since I was 18, cept for George Jr. of course. I am just not nearly as conservative as you, guess that makes me a liberal.


Yep Corporations lay of people all the time, usually to cut costs when revenue is low and business is down. But there are companies that lay people off to bring in numbers at the end of a quarter or year so stock prices will go up. When this is done for short term number it often hurts a company in the long run. They then must hire someone back and retrain them increasing overall costs, this is not good in the long term. These decisions are often not even made for the health of a company but for the good of a few powerful people. I am not a day trader, I will try to invest my money in compnies that will be profitable years from now.


Nah.. you are alright in my book...

:)

:group hug:
 

Westy

the teste
Nov 22, 2002
56,390
22,464
Sleazattle
Originally posted by N8
Nah.. you are alright in my book...

:)

:group hug:
Well you suck

J/K


Anyway my earlier rant made me think about another rant.

<rant> Stocks and dividends:
Few companies provide dividends anymore so stock price depends directly on perceived value. This provides motivation for people to do unscrupulous (?sp) things to increase this perceived value. So companies should be provided with incentives to pay off dividends so stock prices relate more to a realistic value. Completely killing dividend taxes is a bit unfair; someone whose total income would pay 0% income tax, while someone with little discretionary income to invest would still be paying a high percentage. But if they made the $10K or $20K of dividend income tax free it would provide an incentive for companies to pay dividends and give the little guy incentive to invest into the economy.
</rant>
 

Westy

the teste
Nov 22, 2002
56,390
22,464
Sleazattle
Originally posted by N8
..I do! And Miz N8 would like to add that I also nibble, lick, bite and snuggle...

:devil:
And all the while still waving a flag and saluting a picture of the president, truly amazing.

;) :devil: