Sorry O'pie - your post appears to be encrypted.LordOpie said:
John Kerry Calls American Troops Terrorists
- Thread starter N8 v2.0
- Start date
I'll give props for having the nerve to stand up for one's views, but not for the inanity of those views.LordOpie said:
As a direct result of this thread I recognize my evil ways and hereby renounce my conservative views. I also promise to hate Geo. Bush no matter what. I will automatically change all good news about the economy into bad in the hope that Hillary Clinton (or another liberal democrat) wins the White House in 2008 and we can all live happily ever after.
You guys are that good!
Take me, an innocent neonate, unto you bosom!
You guys are that good!
Take me, an innocent neonate, unto you bosom!
No one is saying that you have to be liberal, but blind acceptance of all that Dubya says is not healthy. Do you really believe that Iraq had WMD? Do you really believe that Saddam and Osama had links? If not, then why are you not upset that they lied to you about that? If you do believe it, then why don't you actually read the news or the accounts of the bi-partisan committees that all found no connections and no WMD?N8 said:
Old Man G Funk said:
I am one of you now. It's such a relief not to have to do mush thinking other than to blame Bush for everything. Damn... if I'd known sooner...
Considering all of our replies to you have involved much more intelligent arguments than simply blindly following what Dubya says, I would be more careful about my snarky replies if I were you.N8 said:
BTW, those weren't rhetorical questions. Seriously, I'd like to know. Do you believe all that stuff that Bush and Co. fed you or not?
Old Man G Funk said:
The shrub lied and people died!!!
While I can easily point the finger of blame at Bush and Co I don't have any real plan or idea for how to deal with Iraq, the terrorists, national security etc... I do know that I am pretty sure I am against torture though.
Do you honestly think the way to deal with Iraq, terrorists, national security, et. al. is to "Stay the course?" Do you think things are working or that we need to sit down, think about things, and come up with new ideas? It's all right for them to try and fail, but to continually fail because they won't admit any mistakes or look to make any corrections is just assinine. If you took the wrong line on a trail and crashed because of it, would you correct the next time through, or would you continue to take that same line over and over and never admit that you crashed? Most people would take a different line. That's what we want from our elected officials.N8 said:
Then how can you justify what you have been doing to us.N8 said:
Also, we can definitely point the finger when they lie to us and get us into a bad situation because of it. That doesn't help solve the fact that we are now in that situation of course, but shouldn't they be held accountable?N8 said:
No, I think the best thing to do is not to come up with any plan that can be implimented and instead rely on blaming Bush for his plan, what ever that is (includes "staying the course" etc). That way, we liberals can be on the right side of the issue without actaully having to come up with something that probably will be as bad or worse and risk losing the White House in 08.Old Man G Funk said:
Old Man G Funk said:
I don't know. What does John Dean want us to think on that?
Westy said:Then how can you justify what you have been doing to us.
I said I was 'pretty sure' I am against it...
If you want to bash the Democrats, go right ahead, but it completely evades my questions and shows you for who you are for 2 reasons. One it is completely ad hominem to dismiss my arguments in this manner, especially considering the fact that I am not a democrat. And two, it shows that you really aren't interested in discussion and are really only interested in bashing Dems. and liberals, which ironically is that exact thing you are blasting them for doing. Sort of hypocritical if you ask me.N8 said:
So, you think your elected officials should not be held to any standard? They can lie all they want to start a war and you don't care?N8 said:
..ad homowhat..???Old Man G Funk said:
I don't remember asking....Old Man G Funk said:
PS: Bush suxors!
Old Man G Funk said:
I said I was outraged... sheesh.
No, you asked what "John Dean" would say. It shows the typical mindset of one who follows what the party says and then assumes that everyone else must do the same thing. Think for yourself for a change.N8 said:I said I was outraged... sheesh.
Do I agree with Dean? Did you even ask? No, you just assumed that because I have liberal tendencies then I must be a Democrat and therefore I must listen to and spout everything that Dean says. That's insulting. For the record, I think that if we were to simply pull out now, it would plunge Iraq into a civil war and wouldn't do anyone any good. We need to figure out how to make the country stable and how to get ourselves out of this mess, but pulling out tomorrow is not the answer.
I made no such assumption. All I did was do as most of my fellow liberals do these days, defer to the party leadership for opinion. Oh... and blame Bush because we all know what kind of guy he is.Old Man G Funk said:
Ad hominem. It means that you are attacking me without regard to the substance of my argument. You attack Democrats and act like it has defused my argument when it has done nothing of the sort and only shown you to be unable to counter my arguments. Usually people who have nothing intelligent to say resort to ad hominem attacks.N8 said:..ad homowhat..???
I don't remember asking....
PS: Bush suxors!
Old Man G Funk said:
Well thank goodness I don't know what that means. Can we blame Bush for it anyway?
More ad hominem.N8 said:
Plus, it's a straw man argument.
Nothing worth saying?
A quick check of the news shows that you are completely wrong. There's an article on the front page of the Post today about how not all Democrats are following Dean's idea. And, let's get something else straight; a liberal is not necessarily a Democrat.
I'm glad that you revel in your ignorance.N8 said:Well thank goodness I don't know what that means. Can we blame Bush for it anyway?
OMG!!! Out party is totally fractured falling apart!!! I though Nancy Pelosi and Howard Dean were our spokesmen.Old Man G Funk said:
How are we ever going to win back power now?
Old Man G Funk said:
Again, clearly Bush's fault!
The only reason I've continued this so long is so that others reading this can see just how vacuous your arguments are N8. I hope others can see your complete lack of substance, your logical fallacies, and your total disregard for the position of others, not to mention the fact that you have clearly not read what I've written.N8 said:OMG!!! Out party is totally fractured falling apart!!! I though Nancy Pelosi and Howard Dean were our spokesmen.
How are we ever going to win back power now?
Old Man G Funk said:
Bush lied and people died?
Old Man G Funk said:
If by that you mean that you don't really have any idea how to deal with anything and you are not advancing any solutions for any of the problems our nation has to deal with, and you can blame Bush for everything and criticize any plan he comes up with while not advancing one of your own, then yes, yes I am.
"While not admitting errors, Bush spoke about how the U.S. "adjusted our approach""N8 said:
While I supported going into Iraq initially (im still sick to my stomach when i see ground zero) and i voted both times for Dubya I no longer support him. But it has nothing to do with Iraq. Bush is a horrible CEO, I wouldnt let him speak at an 8th grade graduation ceremony.
I dont know of and wont pretend to have a solution to Iraq. NO ONE has an idea on what to do with Iraq. Not the dems or repubs or the Germans or the French. Pulling out is not a viable option especially if you are Iraqi. That is the last thing they need is for us to leave them with zero help, practically zero infastructure, and a political mess that is just as likely to put Saddam back in charge (lest we not forget that Saddam was a tyrant with or without us) as someone even less desirable.
But what many of you are failing to see or at least acknowledge is that none of the politicians in this country care about Iraq, or the price of gas, or whether there is a housing bubble. They will do or say anything we want to hear so that they are reelected...plain and simple.
In California, the state assembly has an approval rate of around 30% yet in the last election (2004) not a single seat changed parties. Now either the system is rigged or we as a populas dont care.
The fact that the Dems bought the WMD excuse, shame on them for not having the collective fortitude to take the heat from the American people and do what they felt was right and just. It is amazing just how power drunk politicians become when its all on the line. And it is not just the Dems its both sides of the Isle. Neither side has individuals just a common agenda. Pushing on us whatever we will eat.
Sorry for the rant I dont comment too often in the PD anymore so when i do it tends to spew a little long.
I dont know of and wont pretend to have a solution to Iraq. NO ONE has an idea on what to do with Iraq. Not the dems or repubs or the Germans or the French. Pulling out is not a viable option especially if you are Iraqi. That is the last thing they need is for us to leave them with zero help, practically zero infastructure, and a political mess that is just as likely to put Saddam back in charge (lest we not forget that Saddam was a tyrant with or without us) as someone even less desirable.
But what many of you are failing to see or at least acknowledge is that none of the politicians in this country care about Iraq, or the price of gas, or whether there is a housing bubble. They will do or say anything we want to hear so that they are reelected...plain and simple.
In California, the state assembly has an approval rate of around 30% yet in the last election (2004) not a single seat changed parties. Now either the system is rigged or we as a populas dont care.
The fact that the Dems bought the WMD excuse, shame on them for not having the collective fortitude to take the heat from the American people and do what they felt was right and just. It is amazing just how power drunk politicians become when its all on the line. And it is not just the Dems its both sides of the Isle. Neither side has individuals just a common agenda. Pushing on us whatever we will eat.
Sorry for the rant I dont comment too often in the PD anymore so when i do it tends to spew a little long.
Hahahahhahahahahahhahah. When did YOU ever have your own opinion N8?N8 said:
Why don't you explain your plan for Iraq?
(And yes, I know I will not get an answer.)
It's hopeless, why do we expect anything useful out of N8. The man is obviously incapable. Most conversations with him go like this.fluff said:
"Hey everybody, I had a bowel movement today"
-That's good Nate, that's very good
"The meds make it difficult you know"
-Yes, yes I know all too well.
"Mrs Smith at the learning centre gave me this star"
-Terrific Nate, that's because you're a winner!
"I have to take a rest now"
- Sweet dreams, Nate. You're a beautiful person.
I was going to let it drop, but my ego is getting the best of me here (yeah, I know it's a vice but sometimes I can't shake it.)N8 said:
Bush only has 1 plan and it isn't working. So, yeah, I am going to criticize it. You can't know if I'd criticize another plan of his because he has no other plans, and he refuses to come up with another plan.
I do have some ideas, but everytime I've tried to discuss ideas, you have come back with nothing but third-grade level sarcasm...(well, even that might be insulting to third graders.)
One thing we could do is increase our troop presence. It would provide for more stability within the country (and I'll point out that I've already said this, and you obviously ignored it.) We could also swallow our pride and admit that the UN was right and see if we can't get them back on our side to use their expertise in nation building. We could focus on getting the infrastructure back in place, you know running water, electricity, schools, etc. We could stop holding people indefinitely in secret prisons around the world and improve our standing with the rest of the world, thereby making it more likely that they will help us and also hopefully dousing the flames of anti-American hatred that fuels terrorist recruitment efforts. We could back up our pro-Democracy stance with actual pressure on our non-Democratic allies to enact some reform.
No, N8, I don't have any ideas. Feel free to make some inane comment now and completely ignore all that I wrote.
Your real problem is that you are trying to reason with a guy who, if not a complete idiot, does a brilliant impression of one.Old Man G Funk said:
I suspect that N8 cannot be as dumb as he comes across but I do sometimes wonder. After all, he can get onto the internet, but there again he can't spell his own name.
I was under that impression that it was a guy who isn't necessarily an idiot, but doesn't have an original thought and can only parrot what his party says. Then, when faced with criticism or something he can't handle, he resorts to childish tactics, probably because he thinks it is funny. What's really funny is that even after we all get the joke (which isn't funny) that he keeps going at it and makes us all laugh at his inanity.fluff said:
Old Man G Funk said:
you *know* I'm on your side and all....
but, how exactly do we increase troop presence?
If we're losing troops due to them being sick of the bullshat (armored HUMMVs, extended deployment, stop loss, getting paid a whole lot of nothing to be sent out in a field of IEDs...)... who in the heck are we going to put there? Do we recruit more people with the promise of travel, adventure, and gettin' to kill them thar terrorists?
Operations Tempo Remains Retention Challenge
Two Years Later, Iraq War Drains Military
"Stretched by Iraq and Afghanistan, the United States lacks a sufficiently robust ability to put large numbers of "boots on the ground" in case of a major emergency elsewhere"
********************
Shelley, for example, has signed up four people in nearly six months, despite working 16-hour days. Asked why recruiting is so difficult, he has a quick reply: "The war."
****************
As the military struggles to find fresh recruits, there is unprecedented strain on service members and their families.
Since 2001, the U.S. military has deployed more than 1 million troops for the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, with 341,000, or nearly a third, serving two or more overseas tours.
***********
"We've deployed units of the Old Guard!" he said, referring to the first-ever deployment of the ceremonial guard from Fort Myer, when a company was dispatched to Djibouti last year. "We've reached up inside of Alaska and grabbed the forces up there," he said. "Korea! Who would have ever thought that we would have deployed a combat formation?" he said, referring to a brigade sent from South Korea to Iraq.
***********
"I worry about the soldiers with the second and third tour . . . since 9/11," Cody, the Army vice chief, told reporters Thursday.
************
Retention Problems
The voluntary survey of 5,000 Guard troops returning from Iraq and other overseas deployments found that the rate of those leaving the military after such assignments could jump from a current 12.5 percent to more than 20 percent.
Do we ask troops who are out to come back?
I imagine some have....
Should the military just grab everyone who's been in the service over the past, say 15 years, and drop them into the military again?
I got it.... instead of cutting taxes for the rich, we use that money to pay the troops more........
well.. maybe not..
Yes, that is a problem and I'm not sure we can do it alone. One way would be to swallow our pride and try to get the UN and NATO to help out and get more boots on the ground. It would involve some sucking up and we would get more than a few, "I told you so"s from them, but it's probably worth it in order to get the force we need there which would help protect our troops.MudGrrl said:
Plus, maybe we could stop giving tax cuts to the rich and paying soldiers more, that's a good idea.
I will say this, at least you have some ideas, and a dialog has opened up, and we are discussing the issues and possible remedies. If only our elected leaders could do the same.
John Kerry is a freaking ghay jerk off idiot.
If he ever trolls through our town he's sniper bait !That's a fact .
The democraps lost thier power years ago & will do & say anything to try & help themselves get power back.
NO spine.
Flip-flop positions on a monthly basis.
but oh no, how dare anyone challenge the elite-ist John Kerry !!
He wants our power to be channeled through the U.N...Even if we get attacked on our own soil, he would have to get advice or permission to counter....& it just goes on....
Democraps view is to get along & don't piss off anyone.oh we made the terrorist angry so that's why they are attacking us !
Get real you fruitcakes....
If he ever trolls through our town he's sniper bait !That's a fact .
The democraps lost thier power years ago & will do & say anything to try & help themselves get power back.
NO spine.
Flip-flop positions on a monthly basis.
but oh no, how dare anyone challenge the elite-ist John Kerry !!
He wants our power to be channeled through the U.N...Even if we get attacked on our own soil, he would have to get advice or permission to counter....& it just goes on....
Democraps view is to get along & don't piss off anyone.oh we made the terrorist angry so that's why they are attacking us !
Get real you fruitcakes....