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jugs pelosi got protested...

KenW449

Thanos did nothing wrong
Jun 13, 2017
2,704
329
Floating down the whiskey river...
Well by the time you become a doctor or lawyer, you can start the process to become a citizen... Then again, illegals/undocumented seem to have more rights and freedoms, at least under the previous administration. Children are one thing, but by the time you are an adult, you should start your process to become a citizen if you wish to stay. Parents of said children should be teaching their children what they need to become a citizen by the time they are adults. Veterans don't even get taken care of as well as immigrants do.
 

KenW449

Thanos did nothing wrong
Jun 13, 2017
2,704
329
Floating down the whiskey river...
What immigrants do you know and how are they better taken care of?
If i am incorrect, i will gladly redact my statement. Im just remembering things i have heard and read which may be outdated or incorrect or just state by state basis. Statistically speaking, There have not been many studies that show numbers exact numbers of immigrant (un)documented minus 1 from 2012 that has no counter-study so i will not be using that a reliable.
But know that illegal immigrants can get drivers licenses in at least 16 states if the meet certain criteria.

Illegals are legally required to be given access to school K-12.

Not claiming this site as reliable since its almost impossible to find a non-bias information source for controversial topics but,
http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/cashing-in-illegal-immigrants-get-1261-more-welfare-than-american-families-5692-vs-4431/article/2590744

I AM NOT AGAINST IMMIGRATION! I live in Southern Arizona and before here, West Texas and San Antonio. I am familiar with immigrants, i have no way to know who is here legally or not. Just that there a bunch of them, (Approx 3.7 million) and they are expensive. These households impose a net fiscal burden of around $54.5 billion per year.
http://www.heritage.org/immigration/report/the-fiscal-cost-unlawful-immigrants-and-amnesty-the-us-taxpayer
Again not saying that the site is reliable, and my work computer wont open the full article.
Though, they do a lot of crap jobs that no one else wants.
 

Westy

the teste
Nov 22, 2002
54,241
20,025
Sleazattle
If i am incorrect, i will gladly redact my statement. Im just remembering things i have heard and read which may be outdated or incorrect or just state by state basis. Statistically speaking, There have not been many studies that show numbers exact numbers of immigrant (un)documented minus 1 from 2012 that has no counter-study so i will not be using that a reliable.
But know that illegal immigrants can get drivers licenses in at least 16 states if the meet certain criteria.

Illegals are legally required to be given access to school K-12.

Not claiming this site as reliable since its almost impossible to find a non-bias information source for controversial topics but,
http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/cashing-in-illegal-immigrants-get-1261-more-welfare-than-american-families-5692-vs-4431/article/2590744

I AM NOT AGAINST IMMIGRATION! I live in Southern Arizona and before here, West Texas and San Antonio. I am familiar with immigrants, i have no way to know who is here legally or not. Just that there a bunch of them, (Approx 3.7 million) and they are expensive. These households impose a net fiscal burden of around $54.5 billion per year.
http://www.heritage.org/immigration/report/the-fiscal-cost-unlawful-immigrants-and-amnesty-the-us-taxpayer
Again not saying that the site is reliable, and my work computer wont open the full article.
Though, they do a lot of crap jobs that no one else wants.
Are you implying that veterans are not provided access to public education or drivers licenses?

The reasoning behind offering drivers licenses to non citizens is to mitigate the burden they may impose. Someone who is forced to drive illegally isn't/can't purchase insurance. So if you get into a fender bender with an immigrant they are likely to just run away vs having the ability to be responsible.

We demonize illegal workers and blame them for "costs" but they still pay at least sales taxes and most often pay income taxes and even Social Security/medicare with no chance of benefiting from it.

We will build a wall and demonize the immigrants but do nothing to punish the employers that give them jobs. There is always going to be a supply of poor people looking to better their lives. And as long as we maintain a demand for them they will keep coming, but we do nothing about the demand. And that is by design. The more we illegitimize a workforce the more desperate they will become and will be willing to work for less. They are not taking our jobs, people are giving it to them. Instead of spending billions building a wall why don't we enforce employment laws and hold the employers accountable.
 

StiHacka

Compensating for something
Jan 4, 2013
21,560
12,504
In hell. Welcome!
Well by the time you become a doctor or lawyer, you can start the process to become a citizen...
This actually isn't the case. You cannot "start a process" to become a citizen if you start as an illegal immigrant or someone who extended the stay beyond his visa. There's no legal way how to become a citizen unless you have been following the immigration law from the day you've entered the US soil or applied at any US embassy. I am a legal immigrant, I went through the process, it sucks and the process is open to creative execution - i.e. almost lawless.
 

Kevin

Turbo Monkey
If i am incorrect, i will gladly redact my statement. Im just remembering things i have heard and read which may be outdated or incorrect or just state by state basis. Statistically speaking, There have not been many studies that show numbers exact numbers of immigrant (un)documented minus 1 from 2012 that has no counter-study so i will not be using that a reliable.
But know that illegal immigrants can get drivers licenses in at least 16 states if the meet certain criteria.

Illegals are legally required to be given access to school K-12.

Not claiming this site as reliable since its almost impossible to find a non-bias information source for controversial topics but,
http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/cashing-in-illegal-immigrants-get-1261-more-welfare-than-american-families-5692-vs-4431/article/2590744

I AM NOT AGAINST IMMIGRATION! I live in Southern Arizona and before here, West Texas and San Antonio. I am familiar with immigrants, i have no way to know who is here legally or not. Just that there a bunch of them, (Approx 3.7 million) and they are expensive. These households impose a net fiscal burden of around $54.5 billion per year.
http://www.heritage.org/immigration/report/the-fiscal-cost-unlawful-immigrants-and-amnesty-the-us-taxpayer
Again not saying that the site is reliable, and my work computer wont open the full article.
Though, they do a lot of crap jobs that no one else wants.
Get your facts straight before you talk about these things, even if you "think you heard or read it somewhere".
This is exactly how people keep repeating bullshit to eachother and how right wing propapaganda is spread.
If a website is called "heritage.org that should probably ring a bell.

These are subjects people should not treat lightly because it is litteraly ruining other peoples lives.
 

KenW449

Thanos did nothing wrong
Jun 13, 2017
2,704
329
Floating down the whiskey river...
Someone who is forced to drive illegally isn't/can't purchase insurance
We can say that about any a lot of people, not just illegals.

They are not taking our jobs, people are giving it to them. Instead of spending billions building a wall why don't we enforce employment laws and hold the employers accountable.
I never said they are taking out jobs, i said they are doing jobs most Americans don't want to do. Even though they cry about being jobless while living off the system or bitching they don't get paid enough at McDonalds.

If a website is called "heritage.org that should probably ring a bell.
I said it was unreliable but people don't do a lot of studies on the good statistics of illegals... That's are not one sided.

This actually isn't the case. You cannot "start a process" to become a citizen if you start as an illegal immigrant or someone who extended the stay beyond his visa. There's no legal way how to become a citizen unless you have been following the immigration law from the day you've entered the US soil or applied at any US embassy. I am a legal immigrant, I went through the process, it sucks and the process is open to creative execution - i.e. almost lawless.
I agree it is a broken system, but there are a lot of those in America. As for going through the process, you started it, you followed through, and now a legal immigrant.
 
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kidwoo

Artisanal Tweet Curator
If i am incorrect, i will gladly redact my statement. Im just remembering things i have heard and read which may be outdated or incorrect or just state by state basis. Statistically speaking, There have not been many studies that show numbers exact numbers of immigrant (un)documented minus 1 from 2012 that has no counter-study so i will not be using that a reliable.
But know that illegal immigrants can get drivers licenses in at least 16 states if the meet certain criteria.

Illegals are legally required to be given access to school K-12.

Not claiming this site as reliable since its almost impossible to find a non-bias information source for controversial topics but,
http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/cashing-in-illegal-immigrants-get-1261-more-welfare-than-american-families-5692-vs-4431/article/2590744

I AM NOT AGAINST IMMIGRATION! I live in Southern Arizona and before here, West Texas and San Antonio. I am familiar with immigrants, i have no way to know who is here legally or not. Just that there a bunch of them, (Approx 3.7 million) and they are expensive. These households impose a net fiscal burden of around $54.5 billion per year.
http://www.heritage.org/immigration/report/the-fiscal-cost-unlawful-immigrants-and-amnesty-the-us-taxpayer
Again not saying that the site is reliable, and my work computer wont open the full article.
Though, they do a lot of crap jobs that no one else wants.

You said BETTER than vets. Undocumented workers don't get preferential treatment in gov't jobs. Vets do. Undocumented people don't get automatic health coverage from the VA or any agency for that matter. Vets do.

You have to have a fucking social security number to get welfare. Know what also comes with an SS number? Not to mention the states that require you to have a job or traceable employment history to qualify. How do you think that works? You just show up at a welfare office and ask for money?

I'm not judging you on your personal feelings about immigrants. You're repeating bullshit is the problem.
 
If i am incorrect, i will gladly redact my statement. Im just remembering things i have heard and read which may be outdated or incorrect or just state by state basis. Statistically speaking, There have not been many studies that show numbers exact numbers of immigrant (un)documented minus 1 from 2012 that has no counter-study so i will not be using that a reliable.
But know that illegal immigrants can get drivers licenses in at least 16 states if the meet certain criteria.

Illegals are legally required to be given access to school K-12.

Not claiming this site as reliable since its almost impossible to find a non-bias information source for controversial topics but,
http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/cashing-in-illegal-immigrants-get-1261-more-welfare-than-american-families-5692-vs-4431/article/2590744

I AM NOT AGAINST IMMIGRATION! I live in Southern Arizona and before here, West Texas and San Antonio. I am familiar with immigrants, i have no way to know who is here legally or not. Just that there a bunch of them, (Approx 3.7 million) and they are expensive. These households impose a net fiscal burden of around $54.5 billion per year.
http://www.heritage.org/immigration/report/the-fiscal-cost-unlawful-immigrants-and-amnesty-the-us-taxpayer
Again not saying that the site is reliable, and my work computer wont open the full article.
Though, they do a lot of crap jobs that no one else wants.
https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/washington-examiner/
https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/heritage-foundation/
 

syadasti

i heart mac
Apr 15, 2002
12,690
290
VT
Reality is that they're good for economy and they commit less crime.

http://thehill.com/blogs/congress-blog/foreign-policy/203984-illegal-immigrants-benefit-the-us-economy
When analyzed from the vantage point of information derived from reputable, nonpartisan sources (the Pew Research Center, USDA, United States Department of Labor, and leading economists and researchers) then one can obtain a clearer view of this muddled discussion. The truth of the matter is that illegal immigrants are important to the U.S. economy, as well as vital to certain industries like agriculture.

According to the Pew Research Hispanic Trends Project, there were 8.4 million unauthorized immigrants employed in the U.S.; representing 5.2 percent of the U.S. labor force (an increase from 3.8 percent in 2000). Their importance was highlighted in a report by Texas Comptroller Susan Combs that stated, “Without the undocumented population, Texas’ work force would decrease by 6.3 percent” and Texas’ gross state product would decrease by 2.1 percent. Furthermore, certain segments of the U.S. economy, like agriculture, are entirely dependent upon illegal immigrants.

The U.S. Department of Agriculture states that, “about half of the hired workers employed in U.S. crop agriculture were unauthorized, with the overwhelming majority of these workers coming from Mexico.” The USDA has also warned that, “any potential immigration reform could have significant impacts on the U.S. fruit and vegetable industry.” From the perspective of National Milk Producers Federation in 2009, retail milk prices would increase by 61 percent if its immigrant labor force were to be eliminated.

Echoing the Department of Labor, the USDA, and the National Milk Producers Federation, agricultural labor economist James S. Holt made the following statement to Congress in 2007: “The reality, however, is that if we deported a substantial number of undocumented farm workers, there would be a tremendous labor shortage.”

In terms of overall numbers, The Department of Labor reports that of the 2.5 million farm workers in the U.S., over half (53 percent) are illegal immigrants. Growers and labor unions put this figure at 70 percent.

But what about the immense strain on social services and money spent on welfare for these law breakers? The Congressional Budget Office in 2007 answered this question in the following manner: “Over the past two decades, most efforts to estimate the fiscal impact of immigration in the United States have concluded that, in aggregate and over the long term, tax revenues of all types generated by immigrants—both legal and unauthorized—exceed the cost of the services they use.” According to the New York Times, the chief actuary of the Social Security Administration claims that undocumented workers have contributed close to 10% ($300 billion) of the Social Security Trust Fund.

Finally, the aggregate economic impact of illegal immigration is debatable, but any claim that they’ve ruined the country doesn’t correlate to the views of any notable economist. An open letter to President George W. Bush in 2006, signed by around five hundred economists (including five Nobel laureates) stated the following: “While a small percentage of native-born Americans may be harmed by immigration, vastly more Americans benefit from the contributions that immigrants make to our economy, including lower consumer prices.”

Although Harvard economist Jorge Borjas has stated that illegal immigrants from 1980-2000 have reduced the wages of high school dropouts in the U.S, he also states that the average American’s wealth has increased by 1 percent because of illegal immigration. In an op-ed published in the Los Angeles Times, UC Davis economist Giovanni Peri stated that new laws are needed to meet demands within industries like construction, agriculture, and hospitality: “In recent decades, the high demand for these services and the pressure for keeping their cost low and prices competitive have generated incentives to hire undocumented workers.”

Some people claim that illegal immigrants represent an assault on our sovereignty. If this is true, then it might be the first time in world history that a country has employed its invaders. When illegal immigrants cross the border, there’s a citizen waiting to hire them and benefit in some manner from their labor. The sooner our country realizes that immigration reform should be based upon the views of economists and nonpartisan academic researchers, rather than think tanks and radio show hosts, then Congress will finally be able to help solve this national dilemma.
http://www.utne.com/politics/problem-with-the-immigration-problem-zm0z15fzsau
Immigration has not hurt our country; in fact, economists who have studied this question have found that immigration has been responsible in large part for American prosperity and vibrancy.

In 2007, the Council of Economic Advisers under President George W. Bush issued a report that concluded, “Immigrants increase the economy’s total output.” Although measuring such effects is notoriously difficult, the report estimated that U.S. workers gain $30 to $80 billion annually as a result of immigration. How can this be? If low-skilled workers come into the United States, doesn’t that drive down the wages for low-skilled jobs and therefore hurt U.S. workers? The answer is no, not exactly.

Economist Giovanni Peri has shown that although an influx of cheap labor drives down wages in certain areas of the labor market, the benefits of increased economic productivity help U.S. workers who have shifted to higher skilled and more language-intensive jobs. For example, while average wages for roofers have declined with an influx of low-wage immigrant workers, there has been an increased demand for dispatchers and general contractors who tend to be native U.S. workers. The ones who are most negatively affected by immigration are actually previous immigrants who are competing directly for the same kinds of jobs. These average statistics do not mean that there are not some low-skilled U.S. workers whose wages have declined or who have been fired, but Bush’s Council of Economic Advisers estimated that 90 percent of native-born U.S. workers have gained from immigration."
https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2017/02/170210165953.htm
No link between immigration and increased crime, four decades of evidence finds
Date:
February 10, 2017
Source:
University at Buffalo
Summary:
Political discussions about immigrants often include the claim that there is a relationship between immigration patterns and increased crime. However, results of a new study find no links between the two. In fact, immigration actually appears to be linked to reductions in some types of crimes, according to the findings.
https://www.wsj.com/articles/the-mythical-connection-between-immigrants-and-crime-1436916798
They might start by pointing out that numerous studies going back more than a century have shown that immigrants—regardless of nationality or legal status—are less likely than the native population to commit violent crimes or to be incarcerated. A new report from the Immigration Policy Center notes that while the illegal immigrant population in the U.S. more than tripled between 1990 and 2013 to more than 11.2 million, “FBI data indicate that the violent crime rate declined 48%—which included falling rates of aggravated assault, robbery, rape, and murder. Likewise, the property crime rate fell 41%, including declining rates of motor vehicle theft, larceny/robbery, and burglary.”

A separate IPC paper from 2007 explains that this is not a function of well-behaved high-skilled immigrants from India and China offsetting misdeeds of Latin American newcomers. The data show that “for every ethnic group without exception, incarceration rates among young men are lowest for immigrants,” according to the report. “This holds true especially for the Mexicans, Salvadorans, and Guatemalans who make up the bulk of the undocumented population.”

It also holds true in states with large populations of illegal residents. A 2008 report by the Public Policy Institute of California found that immigrants are underrepresented in the prison system. “The incarceration rate for foreign-born adults is 297 per 100,000 in the population, compared [with] 813 per 100,000 for U.S.-born adults,” the study concludes. “The foreign-born, who make up roughly 35% of California’s adult population, constitute 17% of the state prison population.”

High-profile incidents, like the recent arrest of a Mexican national in the horrific shooting death of a young woman in San Francisco, can give the impression that immigrants are more likely to commit violent crimes. But the alleged killer is no more representative of Mexican immigrants than Dylann Roof is representative of white people.

Every immigrant here illegally has already broken a law, though that doesn’t mean they are predisposed to crime. In a 2005 paper, the Federal Reserve Bank of Chicago reported that more recently arrived immigrants are even less crime-prone than their predecessors. In 1980 the incarceration rate of foreign nationals was about one percentage point below natives. A decade later that had fallen to a little more than a percentage point, and by 2000 it was almost three percentage points lower.
 

maxyedor

<b>TOOL PRO</b>
Oct 20, 2005
5,496
3,140
In the bathroom, fighting a battle
As a guy who lives in the land of vegetable farming and makes a good chunk of my living off Ag. equipment R&D, I'd have to agree. Without the illegals, we're pretty well fucked around here. My Ag. customers are still here because there is labor, that labor gets paid minimum wage and they have to use an SS number, the employers look the other way when their social is 123-45-678, as long as there are digits written down and they can send in the withholdings, they're cool with it. The local unemployed gringo population won't work the fields, the age old "immigrants take jobs Americans won't do" think is actually true, can't tell you how many times I've heard somebody bitch about there being no jobs when you can literally just show up and they'll put you to work in the fields within about 20 minutes. If you got rid of the cheap immigrant labor, you'd have to pay considerably more than minimum wage to get most of the locals off well fare and into the fields. At that point it makes no sense to even farm, just import produce from South America where you can pay a guy $2.50 for an entire day's work, and sell the prime Ca land to Chinese investors so they can build more tract homes.

Most of the illegal alien related crime around here are hit&runs because they neither have insurance nor licenses, and being arrested means likely being deported, so they book it.

What to do with the Dreamers is a complicated issue. I think we could start by setting a statute of limitations on illegal entry into this country. If you get busted at the border crossing, then that's a crime. If you got brought here at 2 years old, and now you're 18, I don't think you should get automatic legal status, but maybe we shouldn't be able to punish you for that. Seems reasonable, no? An express lane to citizenship would be a fair solution IMHO. Let them show how they've been a productive member of society, how leaving would have a negative impact on their lives and then they can apply for and be granted citizenship, without having to give up their daily lives in the processes. This is why I never liked DACA, as near as I could tell, it never really accomplished anything other than kicking the can down the road. At some point we either needed to give these people citizenship, or kick them out, while I prefer the citizenship route, we really needed to pick one or the other.

Next obvious step, making the immigration process easier and start allowing more legal immigrants in. People want to come here, they want to come here so badly they'll risk their life to get here and live illegally knowing that they could be arrested and sent home at any moment. You don't think they'd be happy to follow the legal channels instead if they could?


Not sure interrupting and silencing Pelosi is a strong move in this case, but uh, good luck with all of that immigrants. I'm sure alienating one of the few people who seems interested in doing something, anything, on your behalf appreciates it and it will encourage others to take up the cause.

Also, F you Nancy Pelosi for forcing me to agree with something you're doing. Now I may even feel bad for you when you and Schumer lose the 2020 election.
 

kidwoo

Artisanal Tweet Curator
they have to use an SS number, the employers look the other way when their social is 123-45-678, as long as there are digits written down and they can send in the withholdings, they're cool with it.

This is a part no one seems to understand. Using a fake SS number means you PAY taxes but can't collect on things like welfare. You have withholdings going into the coffer, but you can't take advantage of it because there's no match with a number to a human.

So in a lot of cases @KenW449, you have a huge workforce paying into a system that you can take advantage of, and they can't. Do you understand that?
 

syadasti

i heart mac
Apr 15, 2002
12,690
290
VT
The local unemployed gringo population won't work the fields, the age old "immigrants take jobs Americans won't do" think is actually true, can't tell you how many times I've heard somebody bitch about there being no jobs when you can literally just show up and they'll put you to work in the fields within about 20 minutes. If you got rid of the cheap immigrant labor, you'd have to pay considerably more than minimum wage to get most of the locals off well fare and into the fields. At that point it makes no sense to even farm, just import produce from South America where you can pay a guy $2.50 for an entire day's work, and sell the prime Ca land to Chinese investors so they can build more tract homes.
There's good reason most people won't take them - it's very hard labor in poor conditions that will literally kill you from the heat and lack of hydration:

http://www.motherjones.com/food/2017/09/farmworkers-hot-days-deadly-mendota-california/
With laborers harvesting in some of the hottest regions of the country, at least four US farmworkers die from heat annually—20 times the rate in all non-military employees, according to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. But such tragedies are preventable. Indeed, it was the death of 10 outdoor workers in 2005 that actually prompted California to institute a heat protection law. By mandating access to water, shade and heat-protection training for outdoor laborers, the regulations put the state on a precedent-setting path.
It's worse in countries with less regulations as the farmworkers are so overworked they slowly die of a new form of CKD:

https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2016/03/mysterious-kidney-disease-goes-global
Even before scientists know for sure what causes the disease, Taduri says communities can take steps to reduce the risks. Providing clean surface water sources for drinking, urging people to drink more water at work, and advising them to stay away from pain- killers will improve their health anyway, he contends. In El Salvador, Glaser and his colleagues are working to expand a pilot study called the Worker Health and Efficiency program, which prescribes frequent rest and hydration for workers.

Meanwhile, in CKDu-affected communities in southern India, fear and frustration are on the rise. Now, says Taduri, villagers in Andhra Pradesh refuse to come for screening, fearing stigma. When a man is diagnosed with the kidney condition, “his entire family will feel him as a burden,” explains Dolai, the village chief in Balliputtuga.

On a nearby farm, a group of men stand in a circle peeling coconuts. Most are sweating in the midmorning sun. Each stands over a blade longer than his forearm, its wooden handle planted firmly in the soil. They pluck coconuts from a pile and swiftly pull each one over the blade, peeling the thick husk away from the hard, brown inner shell.

The men talk as they work, and the conversation turns to their creatinine levels. “Mine is 1.4,” says a young man in his 30s. “Mine is 1.3,” another says. “One point nine.” “Two.” For half the men, the levels are either borderline or high. All work long hours under the sun, with too little water to drink. Their legs and backs often hurt when they return home in the evenings, and they turn to painkillers or alcohol, even though they know both are bad for their kidneys.

The men understand they are at risk of chronic kidney disease, but believe they can do little to stop it from progressing. Rest is not an option, one says. “We have the disease, but we still have to work to earn a living.”
 

Pesqueeb

bicycle in airplane hangar
Feb 2, 2007
40,146
16,543
Riding the baggage carousel.
Not sure interrupting and silencing Pelosi is a strong move in this case, but uh, good luck with all of that immigrants. I'm sure alienating one of the few people who seems interested in doing something, anything, on your behalf appreciates it and it will encourage others to take up the cause.
God, this shit drives me nuts. Remember when Black Lives Matter shut down a Bernie Rally? What in the all unholy fuck did they think they were accomplishing? These people are on your fucking side! Bernie has an arrest record for fighting for civil rights. When you shut down people who are fighting for you, the only point you make is that you're an asshole.
 

kidwoo

Artisanal Tweet Curator
God, this shit drives me nuts. Remember when Black Lives Matter shut down a Bernie Rally? What in the all unholy fuck did they think they were accomplishing? These people are on your fucking side! Bernie has an arrest record for fighting for civil rights. When you shut down people who are fighting for you, the only point you make is that you're an asshole.
Because san francisco
 

Westy

the teste
Nov 22, 2002
54,241
20,025
Sleazattle
As a guy who lives in the land of vegetable farming and makes a good chunk of my living off Ag. equipment R&D, I'd have to agree. Without the illegals, we're pretty well fucked around here. My Ag. customers are still here because there is labor, that labor gets paid minimum wage and they have to use an SS number, the employers look the other way when their social is 123-45-678, as long as there are digits written down and they can send in the withholdings, they're cool with it. The local unemployed gringo population won't work the fields, the age old "immigrants take jobs Americans won't do" think is actually true, can't tell you how many times I've heard somebody bitch about there being no jobs when you can literally just show up and they'll put you to work in the fields within about 20 minutes. If you got rid of the cheap immigrant labor, you'd have to pay considerably more than minimum wage to get most of the locals off well fare and into the fields. At that point it makes no sense to even farm, just import produce from South America where you can pay a guy $2.50 for an entire day's work, and sell the prime Ca land to Chinese investors so they can build more tract homes.

Most of the illegal alien related crime around here are hit&runs because they neither have insurance nor licenses, and being arrested means likely being deported, so they book it.

What to do with the Dreamers is a complicated issue. I think we could start by setting a statute of limitations on illegal entry into this country. If you get busted at the border crossing, then that's a crime. If you got brought here at 2 years old, and now you're 18, I don't think you should get automatic legal status, but maybe we shouldn't be able to punish you for that. Seems reasonable, no? An express lane to citizenship would be a fair solution IMHO. Let them show how they've been a productive member of society, how leaving would have a negative impact on their lives and then they can apply for and be granted citizenship, without having to give up their daily lives in the processes. This is why I never liked DACA, as near as I could tell, it never really accomplished anything other than kicking the can down the road. At some point we either needed to give these people citizenship, or kick them out, while I prefer the citizenship route, we really needed to pick one or the other.

Next obvious step, making the immigration process easier and start allowing more legal immigrants in. People want to come here, they want to come here so badly they'll risk their life to get here and live illegally knowing that they could be arrested and sent home at any moment. You don't think they'd be happy to follow the legal channels instead if they could?


Not sure interrupting and silencing Pelosi is a strong move in this case, but uh, good luck with all of that immigrants. I'm sure alienating one of the few people who seems interested in doing something, anything, on your behalf appreciates it and it will encourage others to take up the cause.

Also, F you Nancy Pelosi for forcing me to agree with something you're doing. Now I may even feel bad for you when you and Schumer lose the 2020 election.
The numbers agree

In 2011, the state had about 489,000 unemployed residents and roughly 6,500 available jobs in agriculture through the North Carolina Growers Association, the biggest employer of H-2A workers in the United States. Only 268 U.S. natives applied, and 163 showed up for the first day of work. More than half quit by the end of the first month, and only seven people completed the growing season.

Read more here: http://www.thestate.com/news/state/article160096614.html#storylink=cpy
 

KenW449

Thanos did nothing wrong
Jun 13, 2017
2,704
329
Floating down the whiskey river...
Im man enough to admit when im incorrect.
Useful site, thank you.

immigrants take jobs Americans won't do
I did say that twice. Alot of use Americans wanna bitch about not being able to get a job, but refuse to get grit under their nails.

An express lane to citizenship would be a fair solution IMHO
Joing the Military for 4 years is the quickest way. It still takes some time before basic training but most leave basic training as Citizens, some take a bit longer. 4 years is nothing for a lifetime citizenship. Granted, you must be here legally to join.
But agreed, there should be a quicker way for those who cant serve.

Remember when Black Lives Matter shut down a Bernie Rally?
I remember when 6 cops died and BLM cheered about it even thougn one of the cops was black.
 

kidwoo

Artisanal Tweet Curator
I remember when 6 cops died and BLM cheered about it even thougn one of the cops was black.

And a bunch of fat white middle aged guys told the parents of the sandy hook shooting victims they faked it for gun control. What should we as a country do about that you think?

Every group has its assholes. That doesn't mean it's institutionalized or represents larger goals.

They way I've had roided out douchebags with badges toss me around for skateboarding in a closed shopping center, I can't even imagine what it's like to also be black......and in the south. I'd probably be dead.
 
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jimmydean

The Official Meat of Ridemonkey
Sep 10, 2001
40,945
13,138
Portland, OR
We demonize illegal workers and blame them for "costs" but they still pay at least sales taxes and most often pay income taxes and even Social Security/medicare with no chance of benefiting from it.
I had no idea about this until I watched a friend score a SSN for a buddy ($40 at the bus station, 20 minutes, just put your name on a sticky note) so he could get cable. The place his buddy worked took out taxes and social security based on his fake (dead) SSN that he certainly couldn't claim at the end of the year.