[Silver]

WTCs had a central core of services and and outer shell providing support. The floors were apparantly 'hung' between these two load bearing features.

http://www.tms.org/pubs/journals/JOM/0112/Eagar/Eagar-0112.html

More engineers...

edit: I made a mistake between gravity load and wind load, btw. Sorry about that. I'm NOT an engineer.

 

[Changleen]

sum it up for me nicely w/ a bow on top:
what hit the towers?

Planes. Probably the ones that were supposed to have hit them. I don't buy that 'missile' ****. There's no need for it.

what hit the pentagon?

Not a plane. A cruise missile or something like a predator drone. Maybe nothing. Maybe it was just well placed explosives.

what did bush & co know?

I don't know. I'd imagine extragovernmental agencies would have been involved. I read a fairly well thought out piece a while back that discussed how an agency like Mossad would fit the bill pretty well. Whoever it was had to have a lot of conections in high places, and would have had the OK from the White House and Pentagon.

do you know any other monkies who think similarly (about this)?

Not off hand, although if you scan back to the first time we all argued about this, I seem to remember a couple of people agreed with me. Who cares? You don't need a majority to be correct.

A few month before 9/11 some dude in a private plane flew into retricted airspace over Washigton DC. In 17 minutes he had two F16s flanking him. On 9/11 4 planes were missing for over 1 1/2 and despite having identified 3 of them on radar, none of them were flanked. One of the planes flew across three states and back again without interception after it was known to have deviated from course and turned off it's transponder.

After 9/11, a considerable number of the 'hijackers' were found to be alive and well in Europe and Asia. The US government still has not 'admitted' to this or made any moves to rectify the issue, despite it being common knowledge. The story was largely suppresed in the US media. Secondly, the list of hijackers was produced awfully[/] soon after the impact. It has never been revised.

There are all sorts of unanswered questions and really shady details about 9/11. Sure some of the theories out there are wild (such as the missiles on the planes thing), but the sheer volume that exist only exist because of huge, gapping holes in the 'official' version when contrasted with the evidence of the eye. Is there seriously nothing about the official version that bothers you at all?

 

[$tinkle]

i prefer a site name like http://barking-moonbat.cn/bush-lied/9-11-facts.shtml

 

[$tinkle]

Planes. Probably the ones that were supposed to have hit them. I don't buy that 'missile' ****. There's no need for it.
<snip>

just poring over some h.l. mencken & came across this jewel, with which i'll leave you:

The world always makes the assumption that the exposure of an error is identical with the discovery of the truth -- that error and truth are simply opposite. They are nothing of the sort. What the world turns to, when it has been cured of one error, is usually simply another error, and maybe one worse than the first one.

g'nite johnboy.

</click>

 

[Silver]

I don't know if I've posted this here before, but my father had to best conspiracy theory I've heard to date. This was first postulated approx. Sept 13, 2001, btw.

He figures that there were FBI agents sitting in the arrival areas at LA and San Francisco waiting for the hijackers, to follow them around to whatever big what happening on the West Coast. That one works for me. I can imagine the cover up if that was case...

 

[Changleen]

http://www.tms.org/pubs/journals/JOM/0112/Eagar/Eagar-0112.html

More engineers...

edit: I made a mistake between gravity load and wind load, btw. Sorry about that. I'm NOT an engineer.

I am. Intersting article (I'm pretty sure I have read that before) very good at pointing out that the fire could not have 'melted' the structure but the whole thing is written backwards from the assumption of complete loss of structural integrity. What the article ommits and what must be remembered is that most of the bottom 2/3 of the buildings were basically undamaged. No fire, firemen running around getting people out and so on. It is simply not true that all this structure would have such a minute effect on the collapse speed as the article suggests. Also the figures I have seem for the collapse speed do not tally with those in the article, but this is really a moot point as the mode of collapse described in the article also simplifies the situation and basically treats the floors that were impacted as if they simply vanished after 1.5hrs. Watch the video of the collapse again. Judge for yourself. I personally don't buy it.

 

[Silver]

You're assuming you can see the interior floors collapse in the video...and it makes sense to me that you can't until the collapse reaches a "tipping" point.

The shadowy conspiracy could have gotten the same results with much less of an economic hit than they took. (You're an engineer, I have a business degree ) That's why the conspiracy theories don't make much sense to me.

 

[Changleen]

You're assuming you can see the interior floors collapse in the video...and it makes sense to me that you can't until the collapse reaches a "tipping" point.

In the collapse videos, the wavefront of the collapse is quite visible - like I said watch them again, and watch for the squibs.

The shadowy conspiracy could have gotten the same results with much less of an economic hit than they took. (You're an engineer, I have a business degree ) That's why the conspiracy theories don't make much sense to me.

Wasn't it all insured anyway? I seem to remember reading about $700 million payouts.

 

[Silver]

In the collapse videos, the wavefront of the collapse is quite visible - like I said watch them again, and watch for the squibs.
Wasn't it all insured anyway? I seem to remember reading about $700 million payouts.

Insurance costs almost never cover the actual costs of a disaster, that's a bit of a myth. (edit: I have no data for that though...if you trust me, take that on my word. If not...google it yourself . I'm talking about large scale disasters, not a regular house fire.)

Unless you were planning on said disater and overinsured.

I still don't see any evidence of squibs...all I see is the weight of the floors above hitting the clips beneath that hold the trusses...and then the collapse.

Personally, I was shocked at the time that the buildings stood at all. I know now that I shouldn't have been, but that was my first reaction. My wife was the one who told me that I had no idea of the scale of the bulidings, and she was right.

 

[fluff]

This is dumb. Why would the govt need to collapse the buildings? The aircraft attack was clear for all to see and would have been sufficient for the ends that you assign to their motive for demolishing the building. Sheesh.

 

[Changleen]

This is dumb. Why would the govt need to collapse the buildings? The aircraft attack was clear for all to see and would have been sufficient for the ends that you assign to their motive for demolishing the building. Sheesh.

The world is full of unneccassary dumb. Especially where the US government is involved.

 

[$tinkle]

The world is full of unneccassary dumb. Especially where the US government is involved.

first off, "unneccassary dumb" (must assume you meant to spell it this way to be ironical) by way of the us gov't has sustained me since the dusk of the reagan era; therefore, it's my necessary evil.

getting back to the 9/11 hullabaloo at the pentagon...
these theories of a 9/11 coverup are generally appealing to us in these respects:

• all government is corrupt
• all man is subject to corruption
• there's always more to a story (the twistier, the better)
• more people get ahead on the backs of others than of their own virtue
• the most sensational of tales must have some modicum of truth, which in turn will reveal the absolute truth

however, all of this must overcome simple application of occam's razor, & must categorically dismiss expert witnesses (military personel in the pentagon pkg lot, on columbia pike, on shirley hwy, coming out of the tube) whose livelihood has encompassed working on or near both aircraft & ballistic technology. this is to say nothing of the hundreds of commuters on the parkway, some of whom probably had their windows open on this late summer morning (although not necessary to hear an aircraft proceding near .6 mach). just for grins, let's throw in the soldier manning his post at the tomb of the unknown soldier in arlington cemetery.

15 yrs ago, i would ride my bike right by the pentagon on the way to work (washington blvd.), & an oncoming object of any kind would be both seen & heard with enough advance notice to ascertain twix aircraft & missile (unless it approached over crystal city, but this would be witnessed by scores more from the south & east). as it happens, the "approach" to the pentagon went right above my route, so i have the utmost confidence in my testimony.

your theories you have kindly passed along have a nice build-up, & are rather entertaining, but do not square the hard slap of the end result. however, i'm not speaking (typing?) objectively, for i have too much experience in the immediate vicinity, both moving & stationary (i wrecked my torino & got pulled over for drunk driving both w/in 1/4 mile of the property).

you may find this site interesting to browse: http://911research.wtc7.net/pentagon/evidence/

 

[Changleen]

first off, "unneccassary dumb" (must assume you meant to spell it this way to be ironical) by way of the us gov't has sustained me since the dusk of the reagan era; therefore, it's my necessary evil.

So quit and get a new job.

getting back to the 9/11 hullabaloo at the pentagon...
these theories of a 9/11 coverup are generally appealing to us in these respects:

• all government is corrupt
• all man is subject to corruption
• there's always more to a story (the twistier, the better)
• more people get ahead on the backs of others than of their own virtue
• the most sensational of tales must have some modicum of truth, which in turn will reveal the absolute truth

however, all of this must overcome simple application of occam's razor, & must categorically dismiss expert witnesses (military personel in the pentagon pkg lot, on columbia pike, on shirley hwy, coming out of the tube) whose livelihood has encompassed working on or near both aircraft & ballistic technology. this is to say nothing of the hundreds of commuters on the parkway, some of whom probably had their windows open on this late summer morning (although not necessary to hear an aircraft proceding near .6 mach). just for grins, let's throw in the soldier manning his post at the tomb of the unknown soldier in arlington cemetery.

This testimony has been highly conflicting and much of it supressed. If a Jet liner did fly so close to the highway, (and it would have been literally a few feet if we are to believe the official version) where, for instance, are the flipped over and wrecked cars?

15 yrs ago, i would ride my bike right by the pentagon on the way to work (washington blvd.), & an oncoming object of any kind would be both seen & heard with enough advance notice to ascertain twix aircraft & missile (unless it approached over crystal city, but this would be witnessed by scores more from the south & east). as it happens, the "approach" to the pentagon went right above my route, so i have the utmost confidence in my testimony.

your theories you have kindly passed along have a nice build-up, & are rather entertaining, but do not square the hard slap of the end result.

How so?

however, i'm not speaking (typing?) objectively, for i have too much experience in the immediate vicinity, both moving & stationary (i wrecked my torino & got pulled over for drunk driving both w/in 1/4 mile of the property).

The testimony of a speeding drunk eh? j/k

you may find this site interesting to browse: http://911research.wtc7.net/pentagon/evidence/

Thanks $tinkle. I have actually read most of that stuff before, but there is some new material there too. Cheers. I will peruse further.