Why are there only 6 cars racing?
It's on in French right now and I'm not getting their explanation.....
It's on in French right now and I'm not getting their explanation.....
Just turned on the F1 race...
- Thread starter MMike
- Start date
You still need the story? I am watching ITV1 UK so i got all the news ... just drop me a line and i ll repost
Just used the new fangled tool called "google" and pretty much got what I needed... thanks though......
The redneck indy/NASCAR folk must be pretty pissed........
The redneck indy/NASCAR folk must be pretty pissed........
They should be man....
FIA & Michelin really f-ed up this one bigtime. Defective tires from michelin, and refusal from FIA to install an extra curb chicane to avoid overload on tires, resulted to all Michelin runners dropping out of the race before the start.
I really hope all the major manufacturers drop out F1 and FIA , and start the GPWC they are preparing...
FIA & Michelin really f-ed up this one bigtime. Defective tires from michelin, and refusal from FIA to install an extra curb chicane to avoid overload on tires, resulted to all Michelin runners dropping out of the race before the start.
I really hope all the major manufacturers drop out F1 and FIA , and start the GPWC they are preparing...
CANT WAIT!!!!math2014 said:
this situation is just sickening, i know its michelins problem, but why couldnt they just put in the chicane so that the race could go ahead, for the sake of putting on a good show for the people that have payed and the people watching at home.
the FIA have just put another nail in the coffin of the current F1 series.
i say bring on the breakway series i've had enough of it.
if i had any say in this i'd have the fia officials lined upon the pit straight and have all the michelin runners use the banked corner at full speed and run the idiots over.
i just cant belive that with all of the FIA gus there, they couldnt come up with a reasonable solution.
They are simply rediculus.... and Mosley gets billions of $$$ and he gives us this?????
Well either
1. Let michelin risk and crash
2. Put the chicane and let bridgestone guys up front on the start
3. Allow new tires to everyone and let bridgestone guys up front on the start
FIA refused 2-3 and only wanted 1 (which is rediculus)
Well either
1. Let michelin risk and crash
2. Put the chicane and let bridgestone guys up front on the start
3. Allow new tires to everyone and let bridgestone guys up front on the start
FIA refused 2-3 and only wanted 1 (which is rediculus)
once again the most important part of the racing circuit has been put last
ie the fans
i understand that they cant change the rules but the fans came to see a show
its entertainment afterwards without fans turnign up to the races and watching on TV
this sport wouldnt exist
i dont understand how the proposal allow the Michellin teams to put on a new set of tires and race normally while only counting the bridgestone runners for points could affect the race??? at least the fans would get a show
terrible
ie the fans
i understand that they cant change the rules but the fans came to see a show
its entertainment afterwards without fans turnign up to the races and watching on TV
this sport wouldnt exist
i dont understand how the proposal allow the Michellin teams to put on a new set of tires and race normally while only counting the bridgestone runners for points could affect the race??? at least the fans would get a show
terrible
Bring GPWC NOW
The fans got the **** end of the stick on this one, but why should the Bridgestone runners be penalized in any form (i.e. a chicane) for bringing tires that work?
New tires would not have helped the Michelin runners - they airlifted the tires they constructed for the next race and had them ready, however, they had the same problems as the tires for the USGP so it would not have made a difference.
New tires would not have helped the Michelin runners - they airlifted the tires they constructed for the next race and had them ready, however, they had the same problems as the tires for the USGP so it would not have made a difference.
Michelin runners should be penalized, by either not scoring points or by starting from pits or lower positions than bridgestone runners. This is what they proposed and FIA rejected.
I blame FIA for that... because FIA only wanted to accept to run the GP as normal.
I blame FIA for that... because FIA only wanted to accept to run the GP as normal.
If they aren't scoring points then they don't need to be out there - its not a parade. How would like to explain to Ferrari if hothead Montoya in a non points scoring Michelin car punted Michael Schumacher off the track because he was pissed? While I didn't like it, the FIA did what they had to do - your blame should be on Michelin for bring a big pile of monkey crap to the USGP and expecting their teams to race on it.
Whoa, what a cluster****.
Why not give the Bridgestone cars the first six spots no matter what the outcome, and then put in a chicane and race? Bernie's really screwed himself now. He's pretty much guaranteed the breakaway series happens, and I can't imagine him being welcome at an American venue for a long time.
Why not give the Bridgestone cars the first six spots no matter what the outcome, and then put in a chicane and race? Bernie's really screwed himself now. He's pretty much guaranteed the breakaway series happens, and I can't imagine him being welcome at an American venue for a long time.
How do you decide which Bridestone cars to give it to without a race? We pretty much knew that barring a mechanical or a shunt off the track that Ferrari was going to walk away with it when their competition was Jordan and Minardi but how do you figure out who gets 10 points, 8 points, etc? I still believe you can't have a race and a parade going on, on the the same track.
Qualifying order.BillT said:
Actually, I would have given the Ferraris 10 and 8, and then had everyone else racing for the other points. The Minardis and the Jordans are just pylons anyways.
This only makes sense when you consider the politics in F1 that have been going on for a while. I think this will be the straw that breaks the camel's back.
And the fans: I think they acted decently enough. I was expecting a riot.
Michelin stated the new tires they flew over had the same problem as the ones every one qualified on, that's why the chichane was the last resort.math2014 said:
I agree. I'm a loyal F1 fan and won't be leaving anytime soon, however those fans who were "on the fence" this would certianly leave a bad taste in my mouth and turn me off to F1 racing.Silver said:
Personally, I was pretty pumped up for a good race today, kind of like a father's day present to myself, so needless to say I was more than a little disappointed with today............. :eviltongu
Yeah considering it's the midwest (read lots of rednecks........of course how many 'necks are going to be at an F1 race) it could have been much worse like storm the track or something............Silver said:
Can you imagine if that would have happened at the Spanish grand prix? They would have literally lynched everyone in a Michelin shirt after Alonso rolled back into the garage.Andyman_1970 said:
I'm sure the sponsors and all the organizations that put on events during a race weekend are pissed though. Like I said, I think Bernie's finally painted himself into a corner he won't be able to get out of.
I think you're right, he's shown his true colors and it's not for the ultimate good of F1, which he has publically said is in the entertainment business - well evidently he forgot that today (well Max Mosely did at least).Silver said:
Michelin dropped the ball big time. Understandably Ferrari would have objected to the "preferential" treatment that the Michelin runners would have gotten because of the addition of the chichane before turn 13. However even with all that, everyone has seem to forgotten what this whole F1 thing is about, racing and putting on a show..............which did not happen today.
As much as it pains me to say this (and I'll admit I'm a motorsports "snob" as Mrs. Andyman puts it) NASCAR would have never let this happen, they know they are in the entertainment business, and they would have jumped through their butts to make sure the show went on..........anyway, I'm still a bit chuffed about this..............
FIA...the new NORBA.......
If you really want to get pissed, do a little poking around and see what happened when Bridgestone (and Ferrari) were in the same sort of unsafe tire situation in Brazil in 03. The guys on speedtv alluded to it, but I don't know if they actually discussed it.
Speed TV is yaking on and on about how it isnt Bernies fault and how its Goodyears fault alone.
Anyways, why the hell didnt they just race and go in for a pit stop to change tires?
Also, on TV they were talking about the cars going out of rank, except for the ferraris. Im not so sure i understand that, did the cars break rank before they crossed the start?
What was also pretty tasteless was how Tiago Monteiro got up on the podium and started shooting the champange like he deserved it...
Also, what was up with Ferraris team radio being broadcastes and then holding that sing out that read "no radio". Then Mike and Rubens almost crashed with each other.
Although, im pretty mad at the ferrrari team, and the FIA for kissing their asses because Ferrari didnt want to put in a chicane, while all other teams agreed to it.
Anyways, why the hell didnt they just race and go in for a pit stop to change tires?
Also, on TV they were talking about the cars going out of rank, except for the ferraris. Im not so sure i understand that, did the cars break rank before they crossed the start?
What was also pretty tasteless was how Tiago Monteiro got up on the podium and started shooting the champange like he deserved it...
Also, what was up with Ferraris team radio being broadcastes and then holding that sing out that read "no radio". Then Mike and Rubens almost crashed with each other.
Although, im pretty mad at the ferrrari team, and the FIA for kissing their asses because Ferrari didnt want to put in a chicane, while all other teams agreed to it.
Don't even try to turn it into a Ferrari bashing...the blame lies solely on Michelin and their crappy, unsafe tires they supplied to 7 teams. There is no way that the Bridgestone runners should be penalized in any manner which includes altering a race course to meet the needs on some teams due their shortcomings. Unfortunately, the fans lost out on all of this, but shift your bullseye from Ferrari and the FIA to Michelin. Had Michelin done their homework and produced a satisfactory tire, none of this would have occured - attack the root of the problem and not the symptoms.
they didnt quite say they didnt want it, it was more like its not our descision its up to the fia(like always) which is effectivly as bad a disagreeing as they ahve to give a firm agreement from ALL teams for any plans to go through.mack said:
BillT, the blame isnt solely on michelin, they made a mistake yes, but blame fia for how they handled the situation, BADLY!!!
and how exactly would the bridgstone runners be disadvantaged?
they would all be running the same course, theyed all be in the same situation, infact the bridgestone runners would be at an advantage as they knew how they're tires handled and knew that they would last the whole race.
The Bridgestone runners would be penalized by having to run a course they didn't prepare for as a compromise for some teams with bad equipment. Imagine if you showed up for a DH race and since a couple guys showed up on Huffy specials they decide in the interest of safety to make it just fireroads...wouldn't you be pissed? You'd all be on the same course and the same situation...
The blame is solely on Michelin - if they produced a tire that met the needs of their teams then those teams could have raced. They did not do that so then came all the symptons of Michelin's problem. Bridgestone wouldn't have had any advantage with the chicane, because it was the banked chicane that they hit at high speeds which was the issue with the Michelin tires. The rest of the Indy course is relatively low speeds which was why that course is always a challenge for the engineers with regards to setup (as opposed to the all out speed course of Monza or the all out grip course of Monaco).
The blame is solely on Michelin - if they produced a tire that met the needs of their teams then those teams could have raced. They did not do that so then came all the symptons of Michelin's problem. Bridgestone wouldn't have had any advantage with the chicane, because it was the banked chicane that they hit at high speeds which was the issue with the Michelin tires. The rest of the Indy course is relatively low speeds which was why that course is always a challenge for the engineers with regards to setup (as opposed to the all out speed course of Monza or the all out grip course of Monaco).
i heard on the transmission that there were rumors other venues in the US want to host the race. San Francisco and some new hotel in Las Vegas....
i dont think indy is a place for f1... the circuit sucks balls... an ultra fast wide open turn, the engine-killer straight where the minardis hit redline on 6th way before the braking point and the infield that is almost an autocross track, its a mix of monza an hungary, not good for speed, nor handling..
i dont think indy is a place for f1... the circuit sucks balls... an ultra fast wide open turn, the engine-killer straight where the minardis hit redline on 6th way before the braking point and the infield that is almost an autocross track, its a mix of monza an hungary, not good for speed, nor handling..
Dude, my solution would have given Ferrari the points anyways, and there still would have been a race. The way it happened, it went totally tits up. Did Michelin screw up? Yep...but that still doesn't mean that the FIA had to screw over all those fans.BillT said:
Interesting to note that with no competition that Ruebens still doesn't get to race. Poor guy. Ferrari has a hand in this, no matter what the Maranello fanboys think. Unless all those stories about NINE teams agreeing to a chicane are false. They got their win, sure. And we got a preview of what F1 is going to be in 2008 unless Ecclestone gets dumped by the banks that back him.
The thought of a GPWS race at Road America or Laguna Seca leaves me salivating though, I must admit...
mack said:
the curretn F1 rules dont allow for a tyre change
you have to use one set of tyres for the qualifying and the race
or have sever consequences which arent really outlined
couldnt agree more on thisSilver said:
You guys all make good points and pretty much summed it up. My opinions:
I would expect nothing less from the FIA. This is an organization that penalizes drivers in secret for badmouthing them. They are screwing themselves. They think that they have a lock on racing (Much the same as NORBA) but the breakaway org WILL succeed. People said that the IRL would not last. Now they are doing road courses and look to take over CART completly in the next 10 years. Of course they had the Indy 500 in their pocket, but that's another rant.
This is not good for the future of F1 racing in the U.S. US fans are fickle and are currently hand fed on NASCAR who, as Andyman said, would never have let this happen. Well they did not too long ago refuse to race at Texas. The track was new and dangerous, but they worked that out. Anyhoo... F1 really effed up today as far as the fans are concerned.
No, Indy is not a good F1 venue. Road America, Laguna Seca, or heck even Long Beach are better places for a grand prix race. Can you see it? An F1 GP at Road America! 4 + miles of racing. That would be awsome. One can only wish and dream.
Ferrari did nothing wrong. F1 teams have millions on the line and Ferrari is not doing as well as they expected to this year. If I was a driver or team manager I would not want any competitor getting ANY preferential treatment. And if you watched the post race interview you can see how hollow the victory was to Schumey and Barrichello. The other fellow just knows that this is his one time he'll get to experience this, but yeah, he should have held back on the celebration. And Rubens is the back up to Michael. His job isn't to win. His job is to help Michael win.
Michelin really screwed up. They have been to indy before and have enough experience to not let this happen. The cause of the situation rests on the shoulders of Michilin, but the FIA did not do their job and resolve the situation in favor of the fans. And bernie not keeping composure and talking trash back at fans really shows low class. Eff you Bernie.
Speaking of low class, the spectators who threw stuff on to the track have no excuse. The remaining 6 drivers are there doing their jobs. You don't EVER throw debris on track. You risk a drivers life when you do that. Shame on them.
And lastly: NORBA took lessons from the FIA. Not the other way around.
This is just my opinion on the race. I absolutely LOVE auto racing. I'll never give up F1, NASCAR, CART, or any other series I watch. (Toyota Atlantics are my fave!) Just another bump in the road. I hope F1 gets it together. It would be a shame to see F1 degenerate to a second rate racing series.
I would expect nothing less from the FIA. This is an organization that penalizes drivers in secret for badmouthing them. They are screwing themselves. They think that they have a lock on racing (Much the same as NORBA) but the breakaway org WILL succeed. People said that the IRL would not last. Now they are doing road courses and look to take over CART completly in the next 10 years. Of course they had the Indy 500 in their pocket, but that's another rant.
This is not good for the future of F1 racing in the U.S. US fans are fickle and are currently hand fed on NASCAR who, as Andyman said, would never have let this happen. Well they did not too long ago refuse to race at Texas. The track was new and dangerous, but they worked that out. Anyhoo... F1 really effed up today as far as the fans are concerned.
No, Indy is not a good F1 venue. Road America, Laguna Seca, or heck even Long Beach are better places for a grand prix race. Can you see it? An F1 GP at Road America! 4 + miles of racing. That would be awsome. One can only wish and dream.
Ferrari did nothing wrong. F1 teams have millions on the line and Ferrari is not doing as well as they expected to this year. If I was a driver or team manager I would not want any competitor getting ANY preferential treatment. And if you watched the post race interview you can see how hollow the victory was to Schumey and Barrichello. The other fellow just knows that this is his one time he'll get to experience this, but yeah, he should have held back on the celebration. And Rubens is the back up to Michael. His job isn't to win. His job is to help Michael win.
Michelin really screwed up. They have been to indy before and have enough experience to not let this happen. The cause of the situation rests on the shoulders of Michilin, but the FIA did not do their job and resolve the situation in favor of the fans. And bernie not keeping composure and talking trash back at fans really shows low class. Eff you Bernie.
Speaking of low class, the spectators who threw stuff on to the track have no excuse. The remaining 6 drivers are there doing their jobs. You don't EVER throw debris on track. You risk a drivers life when you do that. Shame on them.
And lastly: NORBA took lessons from the FIA. Not the other way around.
This is just my opinion on the race. I absolutely LOVE auto racing. I'll never give up F1, NASCAR, CART, or any other series I watch. (Toyota Atlantics are my fave!) Just another bump in the road. I hope F1 gets it together. It would be a shame to see F1 degenerate to a second rate racing series.
I think the letter from FIA to Michelin summed it up best... It is not the fault of the FIA that they were unable to bring a proper tire to the track. It is kind of like going to a DH race and then asking the promoter to change the course because it is to rough for your XC bike.
As for the fans, yeah, they got screwed. But the teams do have to think of more than just the fans. The driver's lives are on the line out there. If the equipment is unsafe they can't let them go out.
Brian
As for the fans, yeah, they got screwed. But the teams do have to think of more than just the fans. The driver's lives are on the line out there. If the equipment is unsafe they can't let them go out.
Brian
The bottom line is that fans layed out big bucks to be entertained by a good race either in actual tickets or via their cable operator. F1 crapped on their fans by kissing the butts of a few big dollar organizations.
Another reason why my interest in the WRC is going up and up and my interest in F1 is going down and down. WRC just seems so much more fan friendly.
You can't just give the points to Ferrari and still have a race - that penalizes both Jordan and Minardi for not being Ferrari. You do realize that those points translate into money at the end of the year, don't you? Points for the manufacturer's title are used in determining a split of a pool of money for the teams for next year - while not a huge deal for Ferrari, those points are very big for the back markers.
But if they had said "no-one with michelins can do any better than 7th", that would have solved a lot of problems.
Meh....F1 in the US just doesn't seem right anyway. It needs to be in Europe with Jackie Stewart commentating..... Mind you the Montreal Grand Prix last week could not have been more successful. Nyah!
Wait a second.....this was no accident. This was a terrorist plot. The axis of evil sabotaged the michelin tires!
Meh....F1 in the US just doesn't seem right anyway. It needs to be in Europe with Jackie Stewart commentating..... Mind you the Montreal Grand Prix last week could not have been more successful. Nyah!
Wait a second.....this was no accident. This was a terrorist plot. The axis of evil sabotaged the michelin tires!
The FIA proposed 3 solutions to Michelin that would have allowed them to race. Here is a copy of the letter:
Road America, Laguna Seca or Mid-Ohio would be perfect venues for an F1 race..
However I don't think anyone can predict how bad this disaster will distaste fans....I have watched F1 for the last 8 years or so and even before this happened was disenchanted with the one tire one engine rule and the lack of on track passing.
However I don't think anyone can predict how bad this disaster will distaste fans....I have watched F1 for the last 8 years or so and even before this happened was disenchanted with the one tire one engine rule and the lack of on track passing.
Some more thoughts on yesterdays race.
First, Michelin screwed up which they admitted.
Second, the teams and Michelin pinned their hopes on a solution that they knew fell outside the rules for a F1 GP which I will say was wishful thinking. It seemed like they wanted the world to compromise to their problem, which they would have had a cow if B-stone would have done the same when they were struggling. The impression I got was there are the majority and if you want a race, then youll do what we want (since we have 14 cars). This was political spillover from the tension between the FIA and the teams and the threat of the GPWC series. This kind of political garbage should be left for the boardroom, not on a race weekend the Michelin teams threatened not to race and the FIA called their bluff.
Third, it became apparent that providing entertainment is not the priority of F1, evidently being right is and as such I would argue F1 has missed the point of their existence. The fact that both the teams and the FIA could not work together towards a solution
Fourth, I heard discussions that car setup could help the problem somewhat with the Michelin tires, but it would not be optimum for the rest of the track. IMO, you have to play the cards youre dealt, if your tires suck, then find a way around the issue. This is what Ferrari and B-stone have been doing this season so far, when theyve had several failures in a GP they pull the cars they didnt say well our tires suck so were not going to race unless you let us do XYZ.
Fifth, I find it hard to believe Michelin could not have sent over replacement tires that, while not being competitive (heavier, more reinforcement, more plys, more belts etc), would have been safe to run. They spent way to much time trying to figure out that problem rather than providing a safe usable product. Even with the less competitive tires, a race could still have taken place.
Sixth, adding a chichane at the last minute is ridiculous at best. The cars were in prac ferme, and now the drivers were going to have to race on a track they had not raced on before (due to the addition of the chichane) with a car not set up for that (ie fuel load). Racing on a track no one has qualified on is out of the question. Now if this had been addressed on Saturday, where the mods to the track could have been done and the teams qualified on the track in that condition that is totally a reasonable situation but to think the FIA is going to let a race start on a track no one has qualified on is laughable those teams should have known better they are not newbies to the sport.
The blame is mostly Michelin for dropping the ball on the tires, but both the [Michelin]teams and the FIA equally share in it as well for not resolving the issue in a timely manner to have a real race. Ill be surprised if F1 comes back to Indy or even the US next year for that matter, which as a die hard F1 fan is very disappointing.
First, Michelin screwed up which they admitted.
Second, the teams and Michelin pinned their hopes on a solution that they knew fell outside the rules for a F1 GP which I will say was wishful thinking. It seemed like they wanted the world to compromise to their problem, which they would have had a cow if B-stone would have done the same when they were struggling. The impression I got was there are the majority and if you want a race, then youll do what we want (since we have 14 cars). This was political spillover from the tension between the FIA and the teams and the threat of the GPWC series. This kind of political garbage should be left for the boardroom, not on a race weekend the Michelin teams threatened not to race and the FIA called their bluff.
Third, it became apparent that providing entertainment is not the priority of F1, evidently being right is and as such I would argue F1 has missed the point of their existence. The fact that both the teams and the FIA could not work together towards a solution
Fourth, I heard discussions that car setup could help the problem somewhat with the Michelin tires, but it would not be optimum for the rest of the track. IMO, you have to play the cards youre dealt, if your tires suck, then find a way around the issue. This is what Ferrari and B-stone have been doing this season so far, when theyve had several failures in a GP they pull the cars they didnt say well our tires suck so were not going to race unless you let us do XYZ.
Fifth, I find it hard to believe Michelin could not have sent over replacement tires that, while not being competitive (heavier, more reinforcement, more plys, more belts etc), would have been safe to run. They spent way to much time trying to figure out that problem rather than providing a safe usable product. Even with the less competitive tires, a race could still have taken place.
Sixth, adding a chichane at the last minute is ridiculous at best. The cars were in prac ferme, and now the drivers were going to have to race on a track they had not raced on before (due to the addition of the chichane) with a car not set up for that (ie fuel load). Racing on a track no one has qualified on is out of the question. Now if this had been addressed on Saturday, where the mods to the track could have been done and the teams qualified on the track in that condition that is totally a reasonable situation but to think the FIA is going to let a race start on a track no one has qualified on is laughable those teams should have known better they are not newbies to the sport.
The blame is mostly Michelin for dropping the ball on the tires, but both the [Michelin]teams and the FIA equally share in it as well for not resolving the issue in a timely manner to have a real race. Ill be surprised if F1 comes back to Indy or even the US next year for that matter, which as a die hard F1 fan is very disappointing.
Something the Michelin teams were not willing to do, which is sad because the teams could have done this, and there would have been much more of a race than we had yesterday.BillT said:
Notice earlier this year when B-stone teams had to change their tires several times a race, they didn't run to the FIA and say, change the rules for this race or we are not running. This is political spillover from the whole FIA vs. GPWC deal, which in the end did one thing, screw the fans.