[nickaziz]

Right now I have a set of 03 Hayes Mag brakes. They've worked fairly well over the last year, but I've never been overly impressed. I recently severed the rear brake line. Also, my pads seem very worn. Recently I've noticed when doing fast dh runs the brakes really fade a lot.

I've felt other people's mags that feel a alot better than mine. I've also felt 4pot XT's that feel awsome.

I like "touchy" brakes, but as long as it has a lot of high-end power i dont really care if it modulates more than i'm used to.

What I really want is a brake that has huge amounts of power, but also wont fade or have an excessively positive feel (like some hayes).

Right now my options are: 1) Keep mags and put on goodridge lines an new pads or 2) Get Saint brakes with Xt levers and goodridge lines.

 

[fuzzynutz]

If you go with saint brakes I think you need saint hubs as well, but don't quote me on that. If thats true I would just stay with the mags, or maybe have u considered hopes or maguras, or avid juicys?

 

[kidwoo]

What's positive mean?

As far as power, hayes are at the top of the list. They kind of act like v-brakes: all or nothing. They don't modulate for crap compared to the newer single pot shimanos though. My next brakes are going to be either the new xts or saints (same caliper just different rotor options). As soon as my hayes suffer catastrophic failure that is......3 years and waiting........waiting.........

 

[zedro]

well, there is also the new Hayes stuff comming out...

 

[ender]

I stick w/ Hayes at the moment mostly due to parts. Not sure about Shimano but, Hayes parts are super easy to come by.

I haven't contacted Goodridge about it yet but, I've had trouble with the lines I installed. I took my bike to a shop and had them check out the lines and they said the issue is the diameter of the inner hose the fluid flows through is about half the stock Hayes lines. If you look at them side by side you can see the difference. Basically when I pumped the lever the fluid could not travel through the line fast enought and fluid would back up in the master cylinder and the lever wouldn't return to it normal position right away. Anyway, if you do go with the Goodridge lines keep this in mind.

 

[Zark]

It sounds like you need some maintenance and parts, not new brakes. Bleed em, get new pads and rock 'em till they fall off.

 

[buildyourown]

I think if you change the pads and bleed them you will be suprised by how much better they feel. Bleeding often helps a lot with any brake. I do mine once a year. The problem with hayes is that they just won't die. Even when your looking for an excuse to by shiny new parts, they just keep on going.

 

[Incubus]

I recently got rid of my Hayes for some Juicys. The juicys have been giving me so much trouble that I already have one Saint caliper en-route to me (cheap on ebay).

I wanted something different than Hayes having run hayes for most of my hydro-brake life. I got just that in the Avids, in that they were the opposite of Hayes from a durability perspective. (My problems actually stem from shortening the hoses. Some parts are incredibly fragile and their replacements are difficult if not impossible to come by).

I'm hoping that the saints are like the Hayes in durability and maintenance, but offer a bit more modulation.

 

[dante]

I'm currently running XT levers and Saint brakes, and really dig them. Power is good, maybe a little more than my Hayes Mags, but no brake fade and good modulation. Very simple and VERY consistant. My hayes were good, but were probably just getting old and finicky. Have to say, though, twice the screw holding the hose into the lever (and caliper) came loose and squirted brakefluid. Not too happy, but the new XT levers take care of that.

 

[OGRipper]

No offense but when you say things like "the pads seem worn" it sounds like you don't know much about brake maintenence, in which case you should have your Hayes checked out by someone that knows what they're doing. If it hasn't been done in a while, bleeding can make a big difference, so can new pads. But if you never really like the Hayes even when everything was fresh, you might check out some new brakes.

In my opinion The Saint/Goodridge/XT set up you mentioned is pretty much the shizzz right now. I don't own a set (I have 4-pot, older XT) but have tried the Saints and they're fantastic.

Also, you do not need Saint hubs to use Saint brakes. You can use regular 6-bolt Shimano or even Hayes 203mm rotors, so you might not need new rotors except I think that in true "Shimano-soft" style, they bundle the rotors with the Saint calipers so even though you might not want to use them, you have to buy the rotors.

 

[Guess?Who]

Repair your Hayes for the rest of the season then go for the Hope Mono 6 before spring. They should drop down in price by next year.

 

[Macrider]

I say keep your Hayes - new pads, bleed the brakes and they'll be great - want to upgrade? get some aftermarket levers like Dangerboys or Bonz - want greater modulation and less fade ? get some Goodridge brake lines (they also don't tear out easily like the stock Hayes). I've got the older Hayes with RazorRock levers and Goodridge lines (and the upgraded brake pads) on my RFX - they work so well it's stupid...I also have Hope Minis on my XCE and they give me NOTHING BUT PROBLEMS!!!

Hayes are easier to find parts in the wilds of places like BC. Hayes have more aftermarket things to go with them. Hayes are like Chevy trucks, simple and reliable

 

[Repack]

The Saint brakes are the exact same as the XT's. As far as you Hayes issues go, something is wrong. Either a little air in the lines and/or oil on the pads. I would try a re-bleed and new pads first. I am fairly heavy and the stock pads have always lasted me at least a season of DHing.

Are you using 8" or 6" rotors?

 

[zedro]

No offense but when you say things like "the pads seem worn" it sounds like you don't know much about brake maintenence, in which case you should have your Hayes checked out by someone that knows what they're doing. If it hasn't been done in a while, bleeding can make a big difference, so can new pads. But if you never really like the Hayes even when everything was fresh, you might check out some new brakes.

no kidding, they're either worn or not, there's pad material or the there isnt. Also sometimes the pads/rotor can get glazed or contaminated and simply need a cleaning (and consequently re-broken-in). Also sometimes they feel properly bled, but in reality theres still air in there reducing your power, despite the lever stopping at a consistant point.

 

[Transcend]

Repair your Hayes for the rest of the season then go for the Hope Mono 6 before spring. They should drop down in price by next year.

right because 6 pistons are so much better then 2 or 4.

 

[dropmachine]

perhaps it the fact that the 6pots have incredible power and modulation that prompted that suggestion, rather then just the fact that they have 6 pistons?

Hopes work. Period.

 

[zedro]

Hopes work. Period.

Hayes work. Comma,

 

[me89]

yeh saints would be the ****z if you got them with the goodridge lines.but one minor set back the brakes are a 189 bucks a piece for just the brakes. then you have to by the hubs front runs you about a 100 and the rear is pushin 200. then with the rear you cant use another derailure so you have to buy the 100 dollar derailure. thats a lot of money. you could just get the juicies for 400 bucks and that would be cheaper and in my opion much better brakes and i know you dont care about modulation but you dont get any better.or keep the hayes and get the goodridge lines for like 30 bucks and do some brake maintence and you should be set but the decision is up to you. just remember the brakes are what stopes you so there kinda important lol.

 

[Rockland]

yeh saints would be the ****z if you got them with the goodridge lines.but one minor set back the brakes are a 189 bucks a piece for just the brakes. then you have to by the hubs front runs you about a 100 and the rear is pushin 200. then with the rear you cant use another derailure so you have to buy the 100 dollar derailure. thats a lot of money. you could just get the juicies for 400 bucks and that would be cheaper and in my opion much better brakes and i know you dont care about modulation but you dont get any better.or keep the hayes and get the goodridge lines for like 30 bucks and do some brake maintence and you should be set but the decision is up to you. just remember the brakes are what stopes you so there kinda important lol.

The new shimano hubs and rotors are not required to run the new calipers.

 

[zedro]

The new shimano hubs and rotors are not required to run the new calipers.

not to mention the Saint hub is a simple through-axle hub that doesnt need a Saint derailler...nor do you need a Saint hub to run a Saint derailler.

i swear the Saint stuff is the most mis-understood line out there

 

[BMXman]

It sounds like you need some maintenance and parts, not new brakes. Bleed em, get new pads and rock 'em till they fall off.

common sense

 

[bighitfsr]

"i swear the Saint stuff is the most mis-understood line out there"

IMO shimano are doing their best too keep it mis-understood.
Will any 10mm thru axle hub work with the saint axle.
I'm pretty sure it will but I'm not going to buy the derailer and axle unless I know for sure. FYI I have a hugi FR QR rear hub that you can get a 10mm conversion for.

 

[Incubus]

"i swear the Saint stuff is the most mis-understood line out there"

IMO shimano are doing their best too keep it mis-understood.
Will any 10mm thru axle hub work with the saint axle.
I'm pretty sure it will but I'm not going to buy the derailer and axle unless I know for sure. FYI I have a hugi FR QR rear hub that you can get a 10mm conversion for.

Why? Because the compatability link on the ridesaint webpage is blank?

The answer to your question is yes. I briefly used a saint axle and mech with a Hadley 10mm thru-axle hub. I don't know why a hugi would be different. Doesn't Hugi outright say that their hub is Saint mech compatable?

 

[dante]

The new shimano hubs and rotors are not required to run the new calipers.

I'm running (old) XT levers with Saint calipers and Hayes rotors. don't tell anybody...

 

[Rockland]

I'm running (old) XT levers with Saint calipers and Hayes rotors. don't tell anybody...

Shimano is gonna send the police after me as well. One old XT lever with 4 piston caliper, one new style in-line lever with 4 piston caliper, one shimano rotor, one hayes rotor , rear shimano adapter, and a home made front.

 

[Incubus]

Shimano is gonna send the police after me as well. One old XT lever with 4 piston caliper, one new style in-line lever with 4 piston caliper, one shimano rotor, one hayes rotor , rear shimano adapter, and a home made front.

You guys in maine do funny stuff.

 

[Rockland]

You guys in maine do funny stuff.

Hey, whatever it takes to have a functional rolling bike. Maybe if I didn't crash so much, and break things, I'd have matching parts.

 

[OGRipper]

What's funny is that Shimano would probably sell more Saint parts if people realized the brakes work with regular rotors, you can use the rear hub with the der, or the der with different hubs, etc. For every person that buys the whole group thinking they need too, there's probably a bunch of people who don't buy any of it but might if they knew it works with other stuff. Seems to be a backfired propaganda campaign.

 

[Incubus]

I do think that Shimano want you to think that there is only inter-compatability between Saint parts. Otherwise, they'd package the axle with the derailleur instead of with the hub and the rotors with the hubs instead of the calipers. Those are the true dependant Saint relationships (well kind of, you could use a Hadley axle, but it'd be nice to get everything you need in one box).

Cripes, I'm surprised they don't package the bb cups with the rear derailleur since that doesn't already come packaged with a somewhat unnecessary part.

 

[me89]

i was talkin about the whole pakage.lol i cant spell. to get the saint rotors you have to have the saint hubs and to run the rear derailure you have to have the hubs. i know you can run the calipers and a diff rotor. i wasnt talkin about just the caliper.

 

[Incubus]

...and to run the rear derailure you have to have the hubs...

This isn't true. I ran a saint mech with a Hadley hub. Hugi makes a saint derailleur compatable hub as well. Actually, you can run a saint derailleur with any 10mm thru-axle hub.

 

[OGRipper]

Quote: "...to get the saint rotors you have to have the saint hubs..."

It's true you need the Saint rotors if you have Saint hubs, and you can't use the Saint rotors on many other hubs. (Any? I know there are some out or coming soon for the xtr size, not sure about the bigger Saint size.) But unless you think centerlock rotors are worth getting new hubs you don't need either.

Don't get me wrong, the Saint hubs and rotors are pretty sweet and all, but you don't really need them if you've already got 203mm hayes rotors on other hubs and just want to switch brakes. Wasn't that the point of this thread...?

 

[Gallain]

For true modulation and power run Magura Gustav M!! Don't get me wrong, I love my Hayes brakes. But the power and feel of Gustav M is awesome! Downside is that they are heavy.
Thats why I have Hayes on one of my bikes. Sure they are lighter brakes but not with the power...

 

[cali4niabiker]

Right now I have a set of 03 Hayes Mag brakes. They've worked fairly well over the last year, but I've never been overly impressed. I recently severed the rear brake line. Also, my pads seem very worn. Recently I've noticed when doing fast dh runs the brakes really fade a lot.

I've felt other people's mags that feel a alot better than mine. I've also felt 4pot XT's that feel awsome.

I like "touchy" brakes, but as long as it has a lot of high-end power i dont really care if it modulates more than i'm used to.

What I really want is a brake that has huge amounts of power, but also wont fade or have an excessively positive feel (like some hayes).

Right now my options are: 1) Keep mags and put on goodridge lines an new pads or 2) Get Saint brakes with Xt levers and goodridge lines.

I've never tried the Saints, but this stems from my experience with XT brakes. I have Hayes Purples and they are f'kin touchy. I've had a buddy (he uses XT discs) do a superman trip over the bars because of the sensitivity. These are my favorite brakes by a million miles - I've only had to change the pads, lines (kept brakes and changed frames over the years), and bleed it. So far, 4 years and counting.... they have not failed ONCE. Now, I have so much faith in the brakes... almost to the point that I get really anal about how others par.

I've tried XT discs, Hope Minis, and a bunch of Hayes (Comps, HFX-9, etc). The XT's, Hopes, and Hayes XC brakes (COMP, HFX-9) are in the catergory (IMO) of "mushy" brakes. They take a long time to grab, and I can't stand it! You might want to stick with Hayes Mags. Get new lines, pads, and bleed them. They will be as good as new! Keep riding these brakes until one of two things happen: (1) You are no longer into the sport b/c of injury, lack of interest; (2) the brake system gets run over by a Mack truck or something that completely reders it useless.

My 2 cents.

-CAbiker

 

[Repack]

For true modulation and power run Magura Gustav M!! Don't get me wrong, I love my Hayes brakes. But the power and feel of Gustav M is awesome! Downside is that they are heavy.
Thats why I have Hayes on one of my bikes. Sure they are lighter brakes but not with the power...

I have found that the Gustav's fade. That and they cost a bizillion dollars.