[LordOpie]

http://www.factcheck.org/miscreports.aspx?docid=232

Elliott also said he now believes Kerry shot the man in the back, based on other accounts including a book in which Kerry is quoted as saying of the soldier, "He was running away with a live B-40 (rocket launcher) and, I thought, poised to turn around and fire it."

yes, I've never been in the military, let alone combat.

But why is it wrong to shoot the enemy in the back?

If you want to discuss what a fvcktard Kerry's former commander is and what the repubs are doing by using this idiot, that's fine too.

 

[Silver]

I don't have any problem with shooting a wounded, fleeing enemy in the back when he's armed. If he was facing Kerry with his hands in the air, I'd say that was a different story.

Interesting piece from the factcheck link:

None of those in the attack ad by the Swift Boat group actually served on Kerry's boat. And their statements are contrary to the accounts of Kerry and those who served under him.

 

[LordOpie]

how wounded could he be if he was fleeing at a decent pace carrying a live rocket launcher?

just seems to me these swifter guys are shooting 'emselves in the feets.

 

[Tenchiro]

[N8]Come on guys, true patriots are also pacifists and do anything possible to avoid military service during times of war. That is why our president is such a great man.

Not a waffling butcher like Kerry who not only disgraced his country by going to Viet Nam and murdering wounded soldiers. But who now actively opposes armed conflict. [/N8]

 

[N8 v2.0]

There seems to be another problem with Kerry's 4 months worth of SE Asia experience and that's the allagation that says Kerry was not in Cambodia over Christmas of 1968 as he has publically stated...

Since the early 1970s, Kerry has spoken and written of how he was illegally ordered to enter Cambodia. Kerry mentioned it in the floor of the Senate in 1986 when he charged that President Reagan’s actions in Central America were leading the U.S. in another Vietnam. Here’s what he said as excerpted from the new book, UNFIT FOR COMMAND:

I remember Christmas of 1968 sitting on a gunboat in Cambodia. I remember what it was like to be shot at by the Vietnamese and Khmer Rouge and Cambodians, and have the president of the United States telling the American people that I was not there; the troops were not in Cambodia. I have that memory which is seared--seared--in me.

DRUDGE has learned from the accounts of Swift Boat officers and Kerry’s crewmembers that Kerry was never in Cambodia. UNFIT FOR COMMAND authors charge that Kerry made it all up.

“Despite the dramatic memories of his Christmas in Cambodia, Kerry’s statements are complete lies,” according to John O’Neil, co-author and the Swift Boat commander who took over Kerry’s boat. “Kerry was never in Cambodia during Christmas 1968, or at all during the Vietnam War. . . . he was more than fifty miles away from Cambodia.”

Kerry was stationed at Coastal Division 13 in Cat Lo. Coastal Division 13’s patrol areas extended to Sa Dec, about 55 miles from the Cambodian border. . . . Tom Anderson, Commander of River Division 531, who was in charge of PBRs (small river patrol crafts] confirmed that there were no Swifts anywhere in the area and they would have been stopped had they appeared.

All the living commanders in Kerry’s chain of command . . . deny that Kerry was ever ordered to Cambodia. They indicate that Kerry would have been seriously disciplined or court-martialed had he gone there. At least three of the five crewmen on Kerry’s boat, Bill Zaldonis, Steven Hatch, and Steve Gardner, deny that they or their boat were ever in Cambodia.

O’Neill observed that the Cambodia incursion story is not included in Tour of Duty (Kerry’s recent biography). Instead, Kerry replaced the story with a report about a mortar attack that occurred on Christmas Eve 1968 “near the Cambodian border” in a town called Sa Dec and Christmas day was spent at the base writing entries in his journal.

After conducting interviews and research, authors of Unfit for Command conclude, “The truth is that Kerry made up his secret mission into Cambodia.... the lie about the illegal Cambodian incursion painted his superiors up the chain of command. . . . as villains faced down by John Kerry, a solitary hero in grave and exotic danger and forced illegally against his will into harm’s way.”

-DrudgeReport.com

 

[Silver]

And since the Republicans keep bringing up military service, have we ever figured out exactly what Bush was doing during Vietnam? Why'd he quit flying in the Texas Air National Guard? Anyone know if he was subject to drug tests before he quit flying?

Thank God he was protecting our southern border...those Viet Cong troop concentrations on the other side of the Rio Grande were just amazing.

 

[N8 v2.0]

And since the Republicans keep bringing up military service, have we ever figured out exactly what Bush was doing during Vietnam? Why'd he quit flying in the Texas Air National Guard? Anyone know if he was subject to drug tests before he quit flying?

Thank God he was protecting our southern border...those Viet Cong troop concentrations on the other side of the Rio Grande were just amazing.

No one is making an issue out of Vietnam service except Kerry who can't go 5 minutes without mentioning it.

There were thousands of people in the National Guard who were stateside during Vietnam, just as there are today. No one is thought of less for stateside duty vs. overseas duty. A vet is a vet. You sacrificed your personal time to serve your country.... which is something a lot of Americans can't see themselves doing.

 

[Silver]

No one is making an issue out of Vietnam service except Kerry who can't go 5 minutes without mentioning it.

There were thousands of people in the National Guard who were stateside during Vietnam, just as there are today. No one is thought of less for stateside duty vs. overseas duty. A vet is a vet. You sacrificed your personal time to serve your country.... which is something a lot of Americans can't see themselves doing.

Oh, so you admire Tom Delay who said that he didn't go to Vietnam because too many minority youths volunteered, and there was no room for him?

N8, you're a sad ass excuse for a human being, and I'm done with you.

 

[LordOpie]

No one is making an issue out of Vietnam service except Kerry who can't go 5 minutes without mentioning it.

no one? You mean the repubs + swifters = no one?

 

[N8 v2.0]

Heroism, and growing concern about war
By Michael Kranish, Globe Staff, 6/16/2003

The Christmas Eve truce of 1968 was three minutes old when mortar fire exploded around John Forbes Kerry and his five-man crew on a 50-foot aluminum boat near Cambodia. ''Where is the enemy?'' a crewmate shouted.

In the distance, an elderly man was tending his water buffalo -- and serving as human cover for a dozen Viet Cong manning a machine-gun nest.

"Open fire; let's take 'em," Kerry ordered, according to his second-in-command, James Wasser of Illinois. Wasser blasted away with his M-60, hitting the old man, who slumped into the water, presumably dead. With a clear path to the enemy, the fusillade from Kerry's Navy boat, backed by a pair of other small vessels, silenced the machine-gun nest.

When it was over, the Viet Cong were dead, wounded, or on the run. A civilian apparently was killed, and two South Vietnamese allies who had alerted Kerry's crew to the enemy were either wounded or killed.

On the same night, Kerry and his crew had come within a half-inch of being killed by "friendly fire," when some South Vietnamese allies launched several rounds into the river to celebrate the holiday.

To top it off, Kerry said, he had gone several miles inside Cambodia, which theoretically was off limits, prompting Kerry to send a sarcastic message to his superiors that he was writing from the Navy's "most inland" unit.

Back at his base, a weary, disconsolate Kerry sat at his typewriter, as he often did, and poured out his grief. "You hope that they'll courtmartial you or something because that would make sense," Kerry typed that night. He would later recall using court-martial as "a joke," because nothing made sense to him -- the war policy, the deaths, and his presence in the middle of it all.
More...

 

[N8 v2.0]

no one? You mean the repubs + swifters = no one?

I think its only because Kerry has made his Vietnam service and subsequent rewrite of it an issue.

If he'd left it alone then the only military record witch hunt would be that against Pres. Bush...

But hey, turn-about is fair play.

 

[dante]

I can't figure out how this turned into a critique of Kerry's service while GWB was doing coke and not showing up for the National Guard during this time...

 

[N8 v2.0]

I can't figure out how this turned into a critique of Kerry's service while GWB was drinking diet coke and not showing up for the National Guard on time...

 

[BurlyShirley]

N8, I agree with you.

...and not because Im being partisan either. Kerry wants the best of both worlds. He wants to be a great warrior and pacifist at the same time. As great as that sounds and all, in reality it just makes the man baseless (i made that word up i think) and people are calling his BS card for it. LIke I said you cant throw your medals one day and claim to be proud of your service later on. It doesnt work like that. For those that are questioning Bush, fine, do it...but he's not out parading around like Alvin York and Ghandi at the same time.

 

[fluff]

Kerry wants the best of both worlds. He wants to be a great warrior and pacifist at the same time.

Of course we have the alternative of Bush, a crap warrior and a warmonger.

Yay!

 

[Changleen]

Don't forget environmental destroyer, liar, economy fvcker, etc..etc...

 

[N8 v2.0]

Don't forget environmental destroyer, liar, economy fvcker, etc..etc...

..I know you are...

 

[fluff]

..I know you are...

Bloody 'ell. I've surfed into a playground forum...

 

[LordOpie]

Bloody 'ell. I've surfed into a playground forum...

 

[Archslater]

LIke I said you cant throw your medals one day and claim to be proud of your service later on. It doesnt work like that. For those that are questioning Bush, fine, do it...but he's not out parading around like Alvin York and Ghandi at the same time.

And like I've said before Burly, 30 years later wasn't exactly the next day. Kerry kicked a@# in the war, and then came to the realization that it was all for nothing. He has stated that he thinks war should be a LAST effort and we better have a GOOD reason to endanger the lives of our troops.

 

[Archslater]

For those that are questioning Bush, fine, do it...but he's not out parading around like Alvin York and Ghandi at the same time.

He isn't??? I've heard him state on different occasions that he is proud to be a war president and peace president.

 

[BurlyShirley]

And like I've said before Burly, 30 years later wasn't exactly the next day. Kerry kicked a@# in the war, and then came to the realization that it was all for nothing. He has stated that he thinks war should be a LAST effort and we better have a GOOD reason to endanger the lives of our troops.

Yeah, I revised that for you DarthNader, as you can see I didnt say "the next day" because you somehow managed to take that literally last time...and missed it again, of course. Read slowly.
Every president that we have ever had and every candidate has said
"I think war should be a LAST effort and we better have a GOOD reason to endanger the lives of our troops" including Pres. Bush, so thanks for yet another Kerry cliche'. Its obvious the man is trying to play both cards and whether you like him or not (and Im not sure anyone actually does...ham sandwich and all) you gotta admit he's nothing but a snake-in-the-grass politican who says what he has to, to pick up votes.
Now Bush, also a politician, may be a snake in the grass...but at least he's consistent in his feelings (though the peruvian may say that makes him Hitler-like) and any good leader or follower will tell you that consistency is important in leadership. It also happens that I agree with many of his views and think he has hotter daughters and a hotter wife, which Id much rather see than the Ketchup lady.

 

[N8 v2.0]

Since Kerry is basing his whole run at the presidency on his 4 months of duty in Vietnam then his record there needs to be examined...

Kerry's Cambodia question
He says he served there, critics say not so.
The answer's crucial
NYDailyNews | 11 Aug | Zev Chafets

John Edwards is supposed to be a great lawyer but at the recent Democratic convention he made a rookie mistake: He raised a question without knowing the answer. "If you have any questions about what John Kerry's made of, just spend three minutes with the men who served with him," he said.
Edwards meant Kerry's "band of brothers" - the small entourage of vets who served under him in Vietnam and now strongly support him for President.

Evidently, Edwards did not know at the time that almost every officer who commanded Kerry or served alongside him opposes his candidacy. Worse, they have formed a group, Swiftboat Veterans for Truth, that claims more than 250 members.

Their case against Kerry is set forth in a new book, "Unfit for Command," co-written by longtime Kerry critic John O'Neill, and in a TV ad from the group.

Kerry's critics in arms allege that he didn't deserve one of his Purple Hearts and his Bronze Star. They make these claims on the basis of firsthand knowledge. But combat is notoriously confusing, and soldiers in the heat of battle make poor witnesses. Kerry deserves the benefit of the doubt. If the Navy says he won his medals fair and square, that's good enough for me.

What Kerry did (or didn't do) in Cambodia is a different matter.

On March 27, 1986, Kerry told his fellow senators: "I remember Christmas of 1968, sitting on a gunboat in Cambodia. I remember what it was like to be shot at by the Vietnamese and the Khmer Rouge and Cambodians, and the President of the United States telling the American people that I was not there, the troops were not in Cambodia.

"I have that memory, which is seared - seared - in me."

Here's the problem: Kerry's commanding officers and some of his crew members reportedly deny that he was in Cambodia on Christmas 1968. They say he was stationed near the town of Sa Dec, 55 miles from the Cambodian border.

Kerry's people are trying hard to discredit his discreditors. They call "Unfit for Command" co-author O'Neill a Republican hack with a decades-long grudge against Kerry. They say Texas moneymen close to Karl Rove are behind the TV spots and are warning TV stations, in writing, not to air them. They maintain that the Swiftboat Veterans for Truth are motivated by jealousy of Kerry or anger at his post-Vietnam anti-war activities. They want to dismiss all questions about Kerry's war record as sleazy slander.

Sorry, but that's not going to wash. The issue is not whether the charges against Kerry are politically motivated (they obviously are) or who is paying for them. There's just one relevant question: Are the allegations true? Specifically, is it true he lied about being in Cambodia.

Unlike the debate over Kerry's medals, this is a matter that can be checked and verified. If it turns out Kerry was there, the Swiftboat Veterans for Truth are liars and their charges are, in the words of Kerry's friend John McCain, "dishonest and dishonorable." But if he wasn't there, the Kerry campaign is saddled with a problem it can't solve by calling Republicans names, threatening TV stations or even bringing up President Bush's less than stellar war record.

Kerry has staked his candidacy on Vietnam. His running mate has publicly invited the country to judge Kerry by listening to his comrades in arms. A lot of them, to Edwards' obvious chagrin, are saying that John Kerry is unfit for command.

If it turns out he made up the story of Christmas in Cambodia, they could very well be right.

 

[fluff]

N8, don't you ever get bored with this crap?

 

[N8 v2.0]

N8, don't you ever get bored with this crap?

Nope!

Never ever..

 

[LordOpie]

we are and I hope posters will ignore you until you can have a non-completely-moronic discussion that doesn't involve 99% pasting of other people's ideas. you're boring and repetitive and it only works with visitors.

 

[N8 v2.0]

we are and I hope posters will ignore you until you can have a non-completely-moronic discussion that doesn't involve 99% pasting of other people's ideas. you're boring and repetitive and it only works with visitors.

Then why are you posting now..?

 

[LordOpie]

I'm hoping you'll actually rejoin the forum. You used to post good stuff.

Failing that, I'm going to post after you as much as time allows and encourage people to ignore you.

 

[N8 v2.0]

I'm hoping you'll actually rejoin the forum. You used to post good stuff.

Failing that, I'm going to post after you as much as time allows and encourage people to ignore you.

So you want to stifle all conservative commentary because you don't like your boy Kerry and your party's policies being examined...?

Yeah, like that's gonna happen.