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Kerry's Flip-Flops

fluff

Monkey Turbo
Sep 8, 2001
5,673
2
Feeling the lag
Just for N8. To help him understand...


Anti-Kerry Ad Highlights Changes On Welfare, Death Penalty

Club for Growth PAC ad also recycles some misleading tax claims we've
de-bunked before.

07.29.2004

Summary





A Club for Growth PAC TV ad released July 26 accurately cites Kerry's
changing positions over the years on welfare reform, the death penalty
for terrorists, and gasoline taxes.



But it also falsely implies that he's voted to raise taxes 350 times, a
claim we've de-bunked before.



And the ad's main conclusion -- that Kerry "has a big problem making up
his mind" -- is a matter of opinion, not fact. We provide some
additional information to help voters put Kerry's changing positions in
context.



Analysis





The Club for Growth, a Republican-leaning, anti-tax group, said it would
spend $1 million on this ad, running it in Boston during the convention
and in several Midwestern states afterward. It portrays Kerry as a
weathervane, indecisive and "blowing in the wind."

Club for Growth ad

"Blowing in the Wind"

Announcer: John Kerry has a little problem making up his mind. Okay, a
big problem.

In 1996 he opposed the death penalty for terrorists. Now he claims to
support it. Sometimes he's for welfare reform, sometimes against it. For
a 50-cent gas tax hike, then maybe not. Kerry voted for higher taxes 350
times, but now says he'd cut taxes.

John Kerry - blowing in the wind.

Club for Growth PAC is responsible for the content of this advertising.

Death Penalty for Terrorists

It's true, as the ad states, that Kerry once opposed the death penalty
for terrorists and now supports it. He's long been an opponent of the
death penalty in general. In 1989, he was among a small minority of
senators who voted
<http://www.senate.gov/legislative/LIS/roll_call_lists/roll_call_vote_cf
m.cfm?congress=101&session=1&vote=00275> against a bill (S. 1798) to
impose the death penalty "for the terrorist murder of United States
nationals abroad." The bill passed with a bipartisan vote of 79-20.
(Kerry voted
<http://www.senate.gov/legislative/LIS/roll_call_lists/roll_call_vote_cf
m.cfm?congress=101&session=1&vote=00274> for an amendment (S. Amdt.
1068) to the bill that would have imposed life imprisonment without
parole for the same crime, in preference to the death penalty. The
amendment failed by a 20-79 vote.)

The ad also gets it right when it says Kerry still opposed the policy
seven years later in 1996. During a Sept. 16, 1996 Senate campaign
debate between Kerry and then-Massachusetts Governor William Weld, Kerry
said
<http://www.boston.com/news/globe/editorial_opinion/oped/articles/2004/0
2/12/john_kerrys_shifting_stands/> anti-death penalty countries
wouldn't allow the U.S. to extradite suspected terrorists who could be
put to death. As quoted by the Boston Globe:

Kerry: Your policy (the death penalty) would amount to a
terrorist protection policy. Mine would put them in jail.

That, of course, was long before September 11, 2001. Kerry now supports
the death penalty for terrorists:

Kerry: We are talking about people who have declared war on our
nation, and just as I was prepared to kill people personally and
collectively in Vietnam.I support killing people who declare war on our
country .

So Kerry's position did change -- though he still opposes the death
penalty in other cases. Was Kerry simply "blowing in the wind" of
public outrage? His explanation is that he responded to changed facts,
not changed public opinion. He told the Boston Globe on Dec. 18, 2002
that anti-death penalty countries would be more willing to turn over
terrorists after the 9/11 attacks: "I think 9/11 has changed the
capacity for extradition."


Welfare Reform



The Club for Growth accurately cites two differing votes by Kerry on
welfare-related bills. Kerry has an explanation for that as well.



Both bills emphasized work requirements for welfare beneficiaries. Kerry
joined most other Democrats when he voted
<http://www.senate.gov/legislative/LIS/roll_call_lists/roll_call_vote_cf
m.cfm?congress=103&session=1&vote=00163> on June 22, 1993 to table - or
kill - an amendment (S. Amdt 489) requiring states to ensure that at
least 10 percent of welfare beneficiaries participate in a work program,
with a two percent increase each year, or suffer cuts in federal
funding. The tabling measure failed 34-64. The so-called
"workfare" amendment went on to pass by a voice vote on the same day,
but died in the House-Senate conference.

Three years later, on Aug. 1, 1996 Kerry voted
<http://www.senate.gov/legislative/LIS/roll_call_lists/roll_call_vote_cf
m.cfm?congress=104&session=2&vote=00262> FOR a broad-based welfare bill
(H.R. 3734) that included cutting benefits for recipients after two
years if they didn't work and setting a five-year lifetime cap on
welfare eligibility. The bill passed with a bipartisan majority of
78-21. This time most Democrats supported the measure, and President
Clinton signed it into law.

Why the change? Mike Gehrke, a Kerry aide, told FactCheck.org that Kerry
voted against the 1993 bill primarily because it didn't include funding
for childcare or other services to help single mothers get back to work.
The comprehensive 1996 bill included billions of dollars for childcare.

The Gas Tax

It's true that Kerry once voiced support for a 50-cent gas tax and no
longer does. As we previously reported
<http://www.factcheck.org/article.aspx?docid=163> , the only evidence
that Kerry ever supported such a tax comes from two newspaper articles
from ten years ago. In fact, Kerry never voted for a gas-tax bill in the
Senate, and he didn't co-sponsor a 1993 bill to raise the gas tax by 10
cents per gallon each year for five years. So yes, Kerry went
from fleeting, weak support for a gas tax to none at all.

"Higher Taxes" 350 Times? Wrong

As we already reported <http://www.factcheck.org/article.aspx?docID=159>
, the ad's claim that Kerry voted for higher taxes 350 times is
misleading. It is simply false to imply that Kerry has voted that many
times to raise taxes above prevailing levels. The Club for Growth is
recycling a figure generated by the Bush-Cheney campaign. And as a
Bush-Cheney campaign official cautioned when we asked for documentation:
"It is important to note that these are votes for higher taxes, not
necessarily tax increases, meaning it includes votes against tax
cuts." (emphasis added). Most of the 350 votes the Bush campaign lists
are actually votes to keep taxes the same, and against proposed cuts.
Some of the 350 votes are actually votes to cut taxes, but because they
were votes for Democratic alternatives to Republican-sponsored tax-cut
bills, the Bush camp counts them as votes for "higher" taxes -- meaning
higher than they would have been had he voted the other way.

There is no question, however, that Kerry has voted to increase taxes in
the past. He currently supports raising taxes on persons making over
$200,000 a year by repealing Bush's cuts for individuals at that income
level. On that issue Kerry isn't "blowing in the wind" at all --
he's steadfastly against the Club for Growth's agenda of making those
tax cuts permanent.



Sources





S. Amdt 489 to H.R. 2118, Proposed 22 June 1993.

U.S. Senate Roll Call Votes, 103rd Congress - 1st Session, S. Amdt 489,
Vote #163
<http://www.senate.gov/legislative/LIS/roll_call_lists/roll_call_vote_cf
m.cfm?congress=103&session=1&vote=00163> , 22 June 1993.

U.S. Senate, 104th Congress, 2nd Session H.R. 3734, Proposed 27 June
1996.

U.S. Senate Roll Call Votes, 104th Congress - 2nd Session, H.R. 3734,
Vote #262
<http://www.senate.gov/legislative/LIS/roll_call_lists/roll_call_vote_cf
m.cfm?congress=104&session=2&vote=00262> , 1 Aug. 1996.

Francis X. Clines, "Clinton Signs Bill Cutting Welfare; States in New
Role," New York Times, 23 Aug. 1996.

U.S. Senate, 101st Congress, 1st Session S. 1798, Proposed 25 Oct. 1989.

U.S. Senate Roll Call Votes, 101st Congress - 1st Session, S. 1798, Vote
#275
<http://www.senate.gov/legislative/LIS/roll_call_lists/roll_call_vote_cf
m.cfm?congress=101&session=1&vote=00275> , 26 Oct. 1989.

S. Amdt 1068 to S. 1798, Proposed 26 Oct. 1989.

U.S. Senate Roll Call Votes, 101st Congress - 1st Session, S. Amdt 1068,
Vote #274
<http://www.senate.gov/legislative/LIS/roll_call_lists/roll_call_vote_cf
m.cfm?congress=101&session=1&vote=00274> , 26 Oct. 1989.

Jeff Jacoby, " John Kerry's Shifting Stands
<http://www.boston.com/news/globe/editorial_opinion/oped/articles/2004/0
2/12/john_kerrys_shifting_stands/> ," Boston Globe, 12 Feb. 2004.

Anne E. Kornblut, "Kerry Traces His Shift on the Death Penalty," Boston
Globe, 18 December 2002.

"Kerry Campaign Responds to Club for Growth-Latest Misleading Ad From
Bush's Misleading Allies," 26 July 2004.

Jill Zuckman, "Deficit-Watch Group Gives High Marks to 7 N.E.
Lawmakers," Boston Globe, 1 March 1994.

George W. Bush "President Bush Energizes Florida Supporters at First
Rally of the 2004 Campaign" Transcript of Campaign Speech at Orange
County Convention Center, Orlando, Florida 20 March 2004.

_____

Please visit http://www.factcheck.org/article.aspx?docid=226 to view
this FactCheck article in full.
_____
 

Westy

the teste
Nov 22, 2002
54,483
20,287
Sleazattle

ChrisNJ

Chimp
Feb 26, 2003
40
1
jersey
Westy said:
The fact is all polititians will change their stance on some subjects. As circumstances change they would be irresponsible not to.
So was it responsible for Kerry to support the war then turn around and support cutting our troops pay?
 

dante

Unabomber
Feb 13, 2004
8,807
9
looking for classic NE singletrack
ChrisNJ said:
So was it responsible for Kerry to support the war then turn around and support cutting our troops pay?
actually, the democrats supported separating the votes for paying for troops from "rebuilding" Iraq funds (ie, gov handouts to Halliburton in no-bid contracts). The republicans refused... this whole "not supporting our troops" is BS, it's the repubs were able to combine troop funding with haliburton's freebie's like $2/gallon importation of gasoline to iraq.

:mad:
 

Changleen

Paranoid Member
Jan 9, 2004
14,355
2,466
Pōneke
I did read your links Westy. The diferrence between Kerry and Bush is that Bush will say something sweeping and 'powerful' he thinks his audience wants to hear, then when he is informed it doesn't agree with neo-con policy will say the opposite, again in a sweeping statement. Example:

BUSH PLEDGES TO ISSUE REGULATIONS BASED ON SCIENCE..."I think we ought to have high standards set by agencies that rely upon science, not by what may feel good or what sounds good." [then-Governor George W. Bush, 1/15/00]

...BUSH ADMINISTRATION REGULATIONS IGNORE SCIENCE "60 leading scientists—including Nobel laureates, leading medical experts, former federal agency directors and university chairs and presidents—issued a statement calling for regulatory and legislative action to restore scientific integrity to federal policymaking. According to the scientists, the Bush administration has, among other abuses, suppressed and distorted scientific analysis from federal agencies, and taken actions that have undermined the quality of scientific advisory panels." [Union of Concerned Scientists, 2/18/04]
In this case flip-flopping because of his criminal relaxation of clean air standards and bending over for big business to just spew whatever crap they want into the environment.

Or worse, he'll change his mind because his policy has failed, and he'll just 'forget' the first instance:
BUSH WANTS OSAMA DEAD OR ALIVE... "I want justice. And there's an old poster out West, I recall, that says, 'Wanted: Dead or Alive.'" [President Bush, on Osama Bin Laden, 09/17/01]

...BUSH DOESN'T CARE ABOUT OSAMA "I don't know where he is.You know, I just don't spend that much time on him... I truly am not that concerned about him."[President Bush, Press Conference, 3/13/02]
As Westy says, things change in the world and it would be irresponsible for any leader to have a fixed policy for all time. However GW's flops are generally not of this nature. They are mostly flops of convenience, in a short time frame, normally to try and not make him look like a failed idiot or to protect the interests of big business.

Kerry's flips have been presented as his inability to make a decision, where as in most cases they are changes based on the evolving state of the world over many years, (Killing Terrorists) or misrepresentations by Repulican driven media when he is forced to choose to vote on legislation that contains measures he both agrees and disagrees with.

Kerry is doing his best, Bush is just a corrupt liar.