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BurlyShirley

Rex Grossman Will Rise Again
Jul 4, 2002
19,185
17
TN
Professional drug pushers. I RARELY go to the doctor so I was not very familiar to him even after being with him for 3 years.
I fell off my bike and broke my thumb. Went to see my doc and ALL he could talk about was getting me in for a physical, do the blood work, and get me started on cholesterol drugs. (He barely knows me at all and has no idea of my history or family history. But that didn't matter at all. All he wanted to do was get me started on a bunch of drugs that he wasn't even sure that I needed. It was disgusting.) I said no thanks I'm here about my thumb. It pissed him off. After about 5 minutes of his condescending lecture about why I needed these drugs, I cut him off again and told him I was here about the thumb and if he couldn't help me I could find another doctor. In a huff, he passed me paperwork to drive 10 miles across town for an x-ray. I walked out right past the front desk and the ladies started to freak out and chase after me for my signature on a form. I told them they could shove it, I'm finding a new doctor.
:rofl:
It couldn't possibly be that you had some clear sign of a cholesterol issue like high blood pressure or something, could it? Pretty sure they take your vitals before the doc gets a look at you. I find your story a little hard to believe...
 

knittingfiend

Monkey
Jun 13, 2008
193
0
A tick north of Seattle
Ohh jeez.....well, western science is in love with the double blind study, it's true. And it does give some irrefutable evidence, again true. But it's not the only way to get at whether or not something works.... that's the sticky part....
Most scientific questions have too many variables to be answered properly by this method (there are too many variables to control for, and sometimes examining one variable in isolation is, truly, meaningless is it never occurs that way in Nature).

AND, we don't have a complete set of tools to examine multi-factorial questions effectively and sensically (sp?).

AND, some things have withstood the test of time, long before the double-blind test ever came along........ like acupuncture....


But, to each their own, folks will believe what they want to believe...



(OH man, now what have I done? :shocked:)
 

SkaredShtles

I love NEWCASTLE and will ONLY drink NEWCASTLE!!!!
Sep 21, 2003
51,124
4,349
In a van.... down by the river
Ohh jeez.....well, western science is in love with the double blind study, it's true. And it does give some irrefutable evidence, again true. But it's not the only way to get at whether or not something works.... that's the sticky part....
Most scientific questions have too many variables to be answered properly by this method (there are too many variables to control for, and sometimes examining one variable in isolation is, truly, meaningless is it never occurs that way in Nature).

AND, we don't have a complete set of tools to examine multi-factorial questions effectively and sensically (sp?).

AND, some things have withstood the test of time, long before the double-blind test ever came along........ like acupuncture....


But, to each their own, folks will believe what they want to believe...



(OH man, now what have I done? :shocked:)
Sent this thread straight over to P&WN. :D
 

Toshi

Harbinger of Doom
Oct 23, 2001
28,980
2,835
Ohh jeez.....well, western science is in love with the double blind study, it's true. And it does give some irrefutable evidence, again true. But it's not the only way to get at whether or not something works.... that's the sticky part....
Most scientific questions have too many variables to be answered properly by this method (there are too many variables to control for, and sometimes examining one variable in isolation is, truly, meaningless is it never occurs that way in Nature).

AND, we don't have a complete set of tools to examine multi-factorial questions effectively and sensically (sp?).

AND, some things have withstood the test of time, long before the double-blind test ever came along........ like acupuncture....


But, to each their own, folks will believe what they want to believe...



(OH man, now what have I done? :shocked:)
multifactorial analysis: ANOVA.

"test of time" doesn't mean squat if it's placebo when all is said and done.

and donnie, i can GUARANTEE praying won't heal a broken leg (acutely, for an obviously mangled/compound fracture) or magically shrink and repair and aortic aneurysm. not all of health care is managing diabetes and hypertension.

:lighten:
 
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BMXman

I wish I was Canadian
Sep 8, 2001
13,830
0
Victoria, BC
multifactorial analysis: ANOVA.

"test of time" doesn't mean squat if it's placebo when all is said and done.

and donnie, i can GUARANTEE praying won't heal a broken leg or magically shrink and repair and aortic aneurysm. not all of health care is managing diabetes and hypertension.

:lighten:
Toshi I respect you and what you do but it's kind of senseless to talk to you about health care...You're a doctor which makes you pretty biased. I have seen a single person healed of 2 broken legs in 48hrs. I would never have believed it if I hadn't seen it with my own eyes. I don't claim to understand it or even be able to get the same results but I know it can be done...I just beleive that there is more than one way to solve a problem....D
 
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BMXman

I wish I was Canadian
Sep 8, 2001
13,830
0
Victoria, BC
Ohh jeez.....well, western science is in love with the double blind study, it's true. And it does give some irrefutable evidence, again true. But it's not the only way to get at whether or not something works.... that's the sticky part....
Most scientific questions have too many variables to be answered properly by this method (there are too many variables to control for, and sometimes examining one variable in isolation is, truly, meaningless is it never occurs that way in Nature).

AND, we don't have a complete set of tools to examine multi-factorial questions effectively and sensically (sp?).

AND, some things have withstood the test of time, long before the double-blind test ever came along........ like acupuncture....


But, to each their own, folks will believe what they want to believe...



(OH man, now what have I done? :shocked:)
exactly...I don't need to get some study to tell me if something works or not when I have been doing it for years...D
 

Silver

find me a tampon
Jul 20, 2002
10,846
0
Orange County, CA
Toshi I respect you and what you do but it's kind of senseless to talk to you about health care...You're a doctor which makes you pretty biased. I have seen a single person healed of 2 broken legs in 48hrs. I would never have believed it if I hadn't seen it with my own eyes. I don't claim to understand it or even be able to get the same results but I know it can be done...I just beleive that there is more than one way to solve a problem....D
You have before and after x-rays, I assume?

Again, if prayer works, how come there isn't one case of an amputated limb growing back?

Prayer only works on stuff that isn't verifiable. That's convenient. I have a four leaf clover in my pocket that works on the same principle...

As far as Toshi being biased, I assume that you have to be ignorant in the ways that modern medicine works in order to be a credible source, right? Because if you learn about how the body works, you won't believe in crystals or prayer or homeopathic remedies. So you have to be stupid and ignorant for those to work, which is great, because when stupid and ignorant and (redundant, I know) religious people die, they chalk it up to God's will, and God never manages to show up for a lawsuit...
 
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BMXman

I wish I was Canadian
Sep 8, 2001
13,830
0
Victoria, BC
You have before and after x-rays, I assume?

Again, if prayer works, how come there isn't one case of an amputated limb growing back?

Prayer only works on stuff that isn't verifiable. That's convenient. I have a four leaf clover in my pocket that works on the same principle...

As far as Toshi being biased, I assume that you have to be ignorant in the ways that modern medicine works in order to be a credible source, right? Because if you learn about how the body works, you won't believe in crystals or prayer or homeopathic remedies. So you have to be stupid and ignorant for those to work, which is great, because when stupid and ignorant and (redundant, I know) religious people die, they chalk it up to God's will, and God never manages to show up for a lawsuit...
LOL..You beleive what you want, it's not like I need to concince you of it's validity...especially since I'm not a member of any church organization and really have no interest if you changed your thought or not. I just know it can be done...but you go ahead and keep you head buried in the sand. Here's a quick reference I found though....D

Wikipedia said:
However, numerous healings of near- and far-sightedness, dental problems and broken bones have been claimed in the periodicals published by the Church of Christina Science, some of which have been confirmed by medical practitioners who previously deemed them as medically unhealable.
 

MikeD

Leader and Demogogue of the Ridemonkey Satinists
Oct 26, 2001
10,408
455
chez moi
Even if it happened, it certainly isn't happening reliably enough to consider it a valid primary form of medical treatment, D. Might literally have been a miracle--but if I break my leg, I want a hospital, not a faith or holistic healer.

If I have a chronic condition which I can't get rid of through standard medical means, I might try some alternate methods, such as a chiropractor (if it's my back--I think too many people take chiropractic waaay too far), acupuncture, or something like that.
 

Silver

find me a tampon
Jul 20, 2002
10,846
0
Orange County, CA
LOL..You beleive what you want, it's not like I need to concince you of it's validity...especially since I'm not a member of any church organization and really have no interest if you changed your thought or not. I just know it can be done...but you go ahead and keep you head buried in the sand. Here's a quick reference I found though....D
No one has x-rays though, right? Before and after. I believe (Toshi, help me out) that they date the films. All you'd need is a break on day 1 and then healed bone on day 2. Pretty goddamn simple.

But, I guess that's too much to ask faith to produce...
 

Toshi

Harbinger of Doom
Oct 23, 2001
28,980
2,835
films certainly should be dated.

as carl sagan is said to have uttered, "extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence."

"i believe it nya nya nyah" is not extraordinary evidence.
 

BurlyShirley

Rex Grossman Will Rise Again
Jul 4, 2002
19,185
17
TN
Once when I was 11 I had to crap real bad, but I'd just watched some documentary about parasites, and was convinced that I had a tapeworm, so I was afraid to go poop for fear that a tapeworm would come out. I actually convinced myself that if I just held it in, the poo would somehow just turn to urine and I'd never have to crap again, Id just pee it out.
After about 36 hours, nature took over and it turned out that there was no tapeworm in there. Im not sure how that story fits in here.
 

BMXman

I wish I was Canadian
Sep 8, 2001
13,830
0
Victoria, BC
Even if it happened, it certainly isn't happening reliably enough to consider it a valid primary form of medical treatment, D. Might literally have been a miracle--but if I break my leg, I want a hospital, not a faith or holistic healer.
agreed...but what many will call a miracle...some will label it mind over matter, healing, etc...
 

MMike

A fowl peckerwood.
Sep 5, 2001
18,222
86
just sittin' here drinkin' scotch
Once when I was 11 I had to crap real bad, but I'd just watched some documentary about parasites, and was convinced that I had a tapeworm, so I was afraid to go poop for fear that a tapeworm would come out. I actually convinced myself that if I just held it in, the poo would somehow just turn to urine and I'd never have to crap again, Id just pee it out.
After about 36 hours, nature took over and it turned out that there was no tapeworm in there. Im not sure how that story fits in here.

THAT is a beautiful story....