Quantcast

Kingdom Trails. Lyndon, VT

NEMBA won't accomplish shit, they have exactly zero leverage when things get tough. We're only good when volunteer labor is needed.
NEMBA is "tangentially involved". I'm not quite sure what your "zero leverage" statement means.

I have been a NEMBA member for 20 years, and while no organization is perfect, I think that they're the reason that significant legal trails and trail systems in New England exist today.

Vermont has chosen to go its own way (VMBA) for historical reasons.
 

Katz

Monkey
Jun 8, 2012
238
409
Arizona
40 riders per mile? Here I thought Sedona gets bad enough during regular weekends.

Do you happen to know the specific complaints against MTBrs from those landowners?


P.S. I like the last sentence of Terrain ain't fixed.
 

jstuhlman

We noticed.
Dec 3, 2009
9,900
4,670
Cackalacka du Nord
I think that under the circumstances this was entirely predictable. Again, I think that we have an across the board problem of over-promoting to the tourist market.
any chance this is what happens when you create trails for the lowest common denominator? (i say this having never ridden there, so i don't really know, just guessing)
 

Fool

Turbo Monkey
Sep 10, 2001
1,463
105
Brooklyn
I'm not a festival guy, but that's too bad. Finally made it to KT last fall for the first time and enjoyed it immensely.

Over/under on the EWS stop getting canceled next?
 

Muddy

Turbo Monkey
Jul 7, 2013
1,174
291
Midas Muffler
any chance this is what happens when you create trails for the lowest common denominator? (i say this having never ridden there, so i don't really know, just guessing)
KTA looks to have been hedging upon a parcel of residential land sheltered in Darling Hill - some DBA type thing having a back channel to KTA.

What this represents however is money leaving KTA, going to whichever of the multiple 'Q Burke' shell company of whom dumped what was likely 500k for the land during their lavish scheme.

Money also is already traced to Trump Palace in NYC; 2.2M for a Penthouse (collection...)
 
any chance this is what happens when you create trails for the lowest common denominator? (i say this having never ridden there, so i don't really know, just guessing)
Sorry, I don't even know where you're coming from. While KT doesn't have too much of the rock rooty rumble that you and I seem to enjoy, they've got terrain for various skill levels. The problem from my viewpoint is advertising for tourists with no concern for what levels of traffic the system can support.
 
KTA looks to have been hedging upon a parcel of residential land sheltered in Darling Hill - some DBA type thing having a back channel to KTA.

What this represents however is money leaving KTA, going to whichever of the multiple 'Q Burke' shell company of whom dumped what was likely 500k for the land during their lavish scheme.

Money also is already traced to Trump Palace in NYC; 2.2M for a Penthouse (collection...)
I agree that the separation of the lift serviced trails from the balance of the trails with the Q-Burke idiocy didn't help things. It's not, to my knowledge, related whatsoever to the current issues on the Darling hill ridge.
 

Muddy

Turbo Monkey
Jul 7, 2013
1,174
291
Midas Muffler
I agree that the separation of the lift serviced trails from the balance of the trails with the Q-Burke idiocy didn't help things. It's not, to my knowledge, related whatsoever to the current issues on the Darling hill ridge.
I only have acquaintances in the area; what keeps the lights on in E. Burke is not in my wheelhouse.
 

jstuhlman

We noticed.
Dec 3, 2009
9,900
4,670
Cackalacka du Nord
Sorry, I don't even know where you're coming from. While KT doesn't have too much of the rock rooty rumble that you and I seem to enjoy, they've got terrain for various skill levels. The problem from my viewpoint is advertising for tourists with no concern for what levels of traffic the system can support.
seems to me from local experience that when you build trails that are easy for "everyone" to ride that it creates a shitstorm. Our local US Nat'l Whitewater Center has done that with trail that were (before they bought the land) much more technical, and has added miles of "green/blue" level trails. Then they sell the outdoor experience, rent clapped out bikes to people riding in tevas and no helmets, and voila, overcrowded trails and user conflicts. This also happens to "popular" trail systems out west, such as Dupont, which are easy to access and rideable by most who care to try.

So, the problem is catering/advertising to "tourists" - who become the "lowest common denominator" of rider that I referenced; i.e., people who aren't experienced with riding, etiquitte, etc., then you get the more experienced strava-heads who go there because it's popular and they want the KOMs, and voila, super shitty situation. This is why I either go out of my way to build at the trail system locally that doesn't dumb shit down or suck it up and go to the non-popular part of pisgah.
 

Westy

the teste
Nov 22, 2002
36,911
3,733
Sleazattle
I'm not a festival guy, but that's too bad. Finally made it to KT last fall for the first time and enjoyed it immensely.

Over/under on the EWS stop getting canceled next?
I don't get them either. It like going for a pleasure drive when you hear there is a traffic jam.
 

Jozz

Joe Dalton
Apr 18, 2002
1,642
767
SADL
Indeed. The gangs of lycra clad roadie quebecois are often mentioned as one of the major contributors to the problem.
Part of it. But hardly being the riders the reason for trails closure. The organization of KTA were fools to bring 130k people to such a small area. Marketing mayhem!
 

Sandwich

Pig my fish!
Staff member
May 23, 2002
16,279
1,163
01776
I never went to nembafest but on a regular weekend day, KT seemed relatively mellow, especially if you were off darling hill. I did hear that actual nembafest was insanity though, so maybe this is starting to fix the problem.

Or maybe it's trying to guilt the landowners for losing huge revenue streams for the town...
 
seems to me from local experience that when you build trails that are easy for "everyone" to ride that it creates a shitstorm. Our local US Nat'l Whitewater Center has done that with trail that were (before they bought the land) much more technical, and has added miles of "green/blue" level trails. Then they sell the outdoor experience, rent clapped out bikes to people riding in tevas and no helmets, and voila, overcrowded trails and user conflicts. This also happens to "popular" trail systems out west, such as Dupont, which are easy to access and rideable by most who care to try.

So, the problem is catering/advertising to "tourists" - who become the "lowest common denominator" of rider that I referenced; i.e., people who aren't experienced with riding, etiquitte, etc., then you get the more experienced strava-heads who go there because it's popular and they want the KOMs, and voila, super shitty situation. This is why I either go out of my way to build at the trail system locally that doesn't dumb shit down or suck it up and go to the non-popular part of pisgah.
Agreed.
 

jonKranked

Press Button, Receive Stupid
Nov 10, 2005
57,500
5,823
media blackout
any chance this is what happens when you create trails for the lowest common denominator? (i say this having never ridden there, so i don't really know, just guessing)
no. a big part of it is that local infrastructure can't really handle the volume of travelers its seeing (despite the boom the local economy). the other part is the current dispute with the landowners who have revoked access to MTB, which, based on the events as told to me i can't fault them for.