That's as bad as being a member of the unwashed.
Kingdom Trails. Lyndon, VT
- Thread starter johnbryanpeters
- Start date
And then there is this. I am not surprised if true because fuck fatbike nazi and their bullshit groomed trails entitlement.
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May be true, but it seems a little specious.
Dave's got strong opinions, some I agree with, some not, but I doubt he would make this up...
Aaand unlike the Spanish inquisition, the fat mafia shows up with a high degree of predictability.
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So far the same source has offered two "confirmed" causes. I'm waiting to see if we'll ever know what actually caused the brouhaha. There are two or three topics in vermont-new-hampshire-maine discussing the issue. I read 'em all, which gave me a headache and a faint sense of nausea.Aaand unlike the Spanish inquisition, the fat mafia shows up with a high degree of predictability.
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Interview: Abby Long, Executive Director of the Kingdom Trail Association - Pinkbike
Abby addresses many of the concerns about the trail access at Kingdom Trails in Vermont.
interesting about the landowner liability. i was not aware of that.Interview: Abby Long, Executive Director of the Kingdom Trail Association - Pinkbike
Abby addresses many of the concerns about the trail access at Kingdom Trails in Vermont.www.pinkbike.com
I was aware. But wasn't about the part that they would lose protection if they accepted retribution from land use.
i think you mean compensation. lol.
Yeah, le sorry.
Interesting that the four land owners are not even willing to talk to Abby, et. Al...
my best guess is that the rumored incident that led to the decision to ban cyclists was not an isolated incident, rather the straw that broke the camels back after on-going issues over a longer time frame, and they aren't ready to come back to the table yet. the article made it sound as if there are other landowners with the same frustrations who haven't hit their breaking point yet.
It looks like Washington has a similar law, which is awesome. So much trail sterilization happened back in VA because of liability concerns, and any private trails required signed disclaimers. Then I move to Washington and you can find plenty of trails on private land including sketchy jump lines on corporate property that no one cares about.
What a shame. After moving back to MA I was looking forward to returning. I have good memories of attendeding a Monkeyfest in 2008, but last rode there circa 2012. It was never the most technically challenging, but it was a great place to link trails together and ride for the entire day.
word on the street is that KTA has a pending deal to purchase 240 acres of land
Kingdom Trail has $1M deal in the works to purchase 240-acre Quiros property
A Monday court filing outlines a proposed purchase-and-sale agreement between the court-appointed receiver for Jay Peak and the nonprofit mountain bike organization in northern Vermont.
vtdigger.org
yes that one. some friends up that way seem to have deduced that it encompasses at least part of the land that was used for nembafest.Kingdom Trail has $1M deal in the works to purchase 240-acre Quiros property
A Monday court filing outlines a proposed purchase-and-sale agreement between the court-appointed receiver for Jay Peak and the nonprofit mountain bike organization in northern Vermont.vtdigger.org
I think KTA should turn the trail passes into number plates that you have to afix to your handlebars. That way if they do put in cameras to monitor closed trails and do have landowner complaints they can hopefully link the asshole act with the asshole and ban them from the trail system.
Its too bad Vermont doesnt have the same lane use rules as NH, here you have to allow public use on your large properties (with no liability if they get hurt) or else you have to pay a higher tax rate on the land. On some of those 100+ acre farm lots in VT that would be many thousands of dollars per year they'd have to pay in taxes to keep riders off the trails.
Its too bad Vermont doesnt have the same lane use rules as NH, here you have to allow public use on your large properties (with no liability if they get hurt) or else you have to pay a higher tax rate on the land. On some of those 100+ acre farm lots in VT that would be many thousands of dollars per year they'd have to pay in taxes to keep riders off the trails.
the PB article seemed to indicate that VT landowners are covered by the additional liability protection as long as they receive no financial incentives. other states were cited regarding tax incentives for public access which also covered recreational purposes. made it seem like there are no tax incentives for recreational use in VT, is that not the case?
Yes.
If one wants "current use" tax relief, one needs to periodically harvest timber. I have watched this fuck up a lot of trails. I looked at it and never enrolled, no idea what that has cost me in taxes over decades, but use of my land remains under my own control.
is that personal use timber harvest or does it have to be commercial?
Commercial, I believe.
i figured as much. commercial logging is........ disruptive. a family member in Maine maintains a parcel they own as a wood lot, and there are some special requirements around that.
Our camp's on a woodlot.
Need to harvest a portion commercially every 10 years in exchange for tax break.
Do it in winter when grounds frozen, and cut selectively (no clear cutting) and impact is minimal.
Skidder tracks gone within a summer, forest grows with a vengeance.
Kingdom Trails targeted in Act 250 request
Kingdom Trails Association (KTA), one of the most popular mountain biking destinations in the United States, is the target of a request to have state officials apply Vermont’s Act 250
Here we go...Kingdom Trails targeted in Act 250 request
Kingdom Trails Association (KTA), one of the most popular mountain biking destinations in the United States, is the target of a request to have state officials apply Vermont’s Act 250www.northstarmonthly.com
Truly fucked now?
@johnbryanpeters help me understand-from my quick read act250 seems to apply specifically to new developments in the housing and commercial realm and specifically to developers. i understand its historical intent, but am still not clear how it would apply to KT? i get how criteria 5 and 8 might apply to KY, but it's not a new commercial development...
They shot down another trail system in VT recently (on the owners' land) because the state asked them to apply for act 250 permit...
The hinge point that triggers Act 250 seems to be whether money is charged for use of the trails. One is supposed to purchase either a season or a day pass to ride at KT. I don't know how the Kingdom Trails Association's legal status as a non-profit affects all this.
ahh-didn't realize the day pass/permit issue. but yes, the whole "nonprofit" issue will be the key, as 250 seems to be centered around new commercial (for-profit) developments. i say if you're trying to push 250 on KT you can fuck right the fuck off.
If you want to read until you get a headache, go to https://forums.mtbr.com/vermont-new-hampshire-maine/
hey JBP , the article says a David Packie is the one requesting an investigation into the Act250 , is that **** ?
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