Quantcast

Kona

Tom Church

Monkey
Jan 25, 2004
239
0
Beacon, NY
Right but the term "Single Pivot" refers to the fact that the wheel only swings from a single pivot from the frame.

A four bar is a variation of the single pivot design and yes it does give a slightly different feel to the bike but there is still only one pivot between the frame and the wheel.

Think of it like this...if the rear wheel is fixed to the frame via only one pivot, then it can only move through a single arc type of axle path. If another linkage is added between the frame pivot and the wheel, then the wheel can then move in a series of compound or reverse arcs.

Another way...if you disconnected an entire swingarm from a frame on a single pivot the wheel would be in a fixed position at the end of the swingarm...but if you add another linkage in there (like the VPP, DW, Maestro or FSR), then you could hold the end of the singarm stationary but the wheel can still move.

Anyways this is the deepest suspension discussion I have been in...but I think I understand it correctly.

Back to the original thread...I would not bash on Kona...they make solid bikes!!

tom
 

General Lee

Turbo Monkey
Oct 16, 2003
2,867
0
The 802
Back to the original thread...I would not bash on Kona...they make solid bikes!!

tom
entirely correct. and Saturn may well make good cars but that doesn't mean everyone will want to drive one. for some it's a simple matter of taste, image, pedigree, or status. Though plain hate can't be counted out either.
 

William42

fork ways
Jul 31, 2007
3,747
398
edit: looks like everything I just said has already been said.

my advice is, ride the bike! if you like it (plenty do) then get it! nobody can say its not race proven, and still doing well.

plus, if you check out the 2008 geo, its not to shabby for a DH bike, and I understand they lightened the frame to a competitive weight.
 
Lots of opinions not much fact

Fabien Barrel won 2 world championships on the Stab
nearly beat hill coming back from a broken ankle after one month with hardly any riding on one of the thoughest courses in the world @ Fort William! and beat many VPP and other high budget teams and designs, ok I know allot of this has to do with the rider but at that level equipment is paramount, Nico was so good cause he was so far ahead with his suspension his bike designs he had the very best around him, look at any top world champion, equipment to training they usually innovate, refine and lead all areas not just talent.

The Stab is well proven design, I raced mine for a seaon with no issues except for the ****ty saint rear derailuer which is fine for FR but not good for DH imo, with setup changes to gearing and shorter cranks my 2007 Stab is right up there with what Ive competed against, the bike may not pedal quite as well as some but it corners great, is very stable, jumps well, and sticks to the ground with the dope system as well as any other design, at this level the only other thing I think is a major is setting the suspension correctly and most peopleare way off and thats the difference in times or ridng fast or riding ragged, difference between 1st and 5th allot of the time..


I for one am disapointed Fabian has left Kona for this season but everything must move forward.
Omo
Well said about fabian. The Stab is on my list this year, but it's tough to shell out the dough when more proven designs that counter act brake input and pedaling while still being plush are out on the market for the same price pretty much.

Any other Stab owners out there that can chime in here with some input?????
 

demo 9

Turbo Monkey
Jan 31, 2007
5,911
45
north jersey
there is nothing great about kona but nothing bad either. they work, get the job done and are heavy. nobody likes them because they never change them, specialized and cannondale and other big companys are making frames that have no brake jack and pedal well and use huge designs-they are usually better but no reason not to buy kona
 

dropmachine

Turbo Monkey
Sep 7, 2001
2,923
10
Your face.
Well said about fabian. The Stab is on my list this year, but it's tough to shell out the dough when more proven designs that counter act brake input and pedaling while still being plush are out on the market for the same price pretty much.

Any other Stab owners out there that can chime in here with some input?????
PRoven to do what? Win? I'd say Fabien proved it can win.

The DOPE system allows you to have plush suspension while braking. So thats done.

The STAB is simply a good bike at a good price with no bull and not a lot of hype that gets crapped on because something else is the flavor of the week.
 

William42

fork ways
Jul 31, 2007
3,747
398
there is nothing great about kona but nothing bad either. they work, get the job done and are heavy. nobody likes them because they never change them, specialized and cannondale and other big companys are making frames that have no brake jack and pedal well and use huge designs-they are usually better but no reason not to buy kona
dude cdale uses a floating brake to eliminate brake *squat* (not jack) just the same as kona. They too, are heavy like Kona. They too, are a WC DH race proven design. how can you claim that "all the other big companies are better, but thats no reason not to buy kona" on any grounds....first of all, if they are better, that is a reason not to buy kona - but how on earth can you say they're better when kona is such a proven design. The way your bike rides is a matter of preference. Would I like the way Sam Hill has his bike set up? probably not. Can he go faster then me? undoubtably so. Could I go faster on his bike or my bike - probably my bike. Would I enjoy his bike or my bike more? my bike. Is my bike better then Sam Hill's? For me it is.

The funny thing about me arguing all this is that I haven't ridden a single pivot (whether with a rate modifying linkage, or traditional SP like Orange/Moorwood) that i've particularly liked or thought would be worth spending a significant amount of money on.

I guess what I'm saying is, the way your bike functions and rides is a matter of preference, and don't buy into the marketing hype if you haven't tried a couple different kinds out.

PS: that wasn't entirely directed to you, more just the general bashing of kona!
 

muddy beast

Turbo Monkey
Nov 26, 2005
1,819
0
People don't have a problem with the bike, they have a problem with the people riding the bikes.

IMO.

EDIT: Well, at least that's what my beef with Kona is about...most of the guy's I know who ride them (with the exception of one) are dick's.
 

DirtyMike

Turbo Fluffer
Aug 8, 2005
14,366
944
My own world inside my head
Personally, not picking on any one type of bike as a favortie or a dislike, Suspension is totaly a personal feel. Which is best for you?? Depends on you, your riding style, were you ride Etc. recently I went from a KHS FR frame to a Transition Dirtbag. Both work great, but for me the Dirtbag has a better geo to it. For me its plush smooth and can take a hit with my big ass on it, given Im alot lighter than I was two years ago, But I am still weighing in at 240.

In comparision, I rode a Foes DHR and I personally hated it, not because it didnt work, but because it didnt feel proper for my riding style. I am also not a huge fan of VP style suspension either. But thats just me, not everyone else.


If you happen to be looking for a new design/rig for yourself, My suggestion is of coarse test riding, and no a parking lot ride does not cut it, go rent a few bikes over the coarse a few weekends, and decide whats best for you.



Above all, go, ride, be happy
 

How

Monkey
Sep 10, 2001
195
0
Area 51
Kona Bikes = cool, there's better bikes on the market, although they probably cost more.

The only thing I don't like about Kona is that their warranty is only one year on the frames.

If you're looking for a similar bike, the Banshee Wildcard has a 10 year guarantee on it, I ride a Banshee Scream, the suspension design is proven and pedals well, also very durable and great for freeride applications.

Also look at the Specialized bikes.
 

[Tha]Shovla

Monkey
Aug 28, 2007
119
0
Somewhere over the rainbow
Also look at the Specialized bikes.
Kona does make some killer bikes. I think Kona has done a great job of staying with a proven design that works for them. A lot of people would argue they are not inventive or that they are stale by not changing their designs but if you dont like the company dont buy their bikes. If you Do like how they ride then buy one. Comfort is most important.

If you are going to buy a specialized DONT buy anything with the word DEMO in the title. The SX trail on down are good bikes (highly over priced IMO) but good bikes none the less. I think the Demo 7 & 8 are not good bikes and are EXTREMELY OVER PRICED! . Im not a fan of the FSR suspension link on the 8. i think its unessisary and inefficient. too many moving parts. and seeing as how you wanted a Dual Crown race bike you wont be getting an SX trail, so stay away from specialized. If you like Kona. buy Kona. I would ride a Mongoose if it were comfortable and fast.
 
PRoven to do what? Win? I'd say Fabien proved it can win. QUOTE]

Maybe you misunderstood, because that is what I was agreeing with. I'm a huge fan of Fabien - guys got a lot of heart to take 2nd at worlds this past season with his foot 4 weeks out and no riding. Plus I like watching him ride. His part in NWD 8 is sick. Makes me want to ride. Problem is I don't ride like Fabien. I drag the hell out of my rear brake way too much in the wrong sections and get brake jack where as a pro would fly right through without the brakes, so that is what I meant about more proven designs.

I know Kona makes a great bike because I have owned a coilair, a dawg, and my wife has a kikipu. I'm looking for a new DH bike this season. Planning to go to Colorado, Whistler, Diablo, and Snowshoe with it and will do freeriding and race it some too. I'm racing in the expert class and am not a podium finisher so I'm not really worried about having the latest, fastest, cutting edge equipment. I'm leaning more and more towards the stab.
 

ZHendo

Turbo Monkey
Oct 29, 2006
1,619
96
PNW
supposedly the ecd shares some ride characteristics with the turner dhr, but i'm just going by what others have told me, i haven't ridden one. i personally don't like konas, i rode one in whistler and although it wasn't really taken care of at all by the shop, it just felt dead to me, not a very lively ride.
 

pdawg

Monkey
Feb 27, 2006
310
0
Espoo, Finland
Having owned a few Konas, I have never seen any problem with build quality. The overall QC is quite good and frame is well made, considering it is a mass produced bike. Perhaps they could be spec'ed a bit better, but given the price point it is hard to complain.

Aside from the philosophical debate about Kona's psuedo four bar system, the suspension does its job... nothing special, nothing too bad. This same design is used by a number of other manfacturers, but apparently Kona get most the flack for lacking innovation (until recently with their Magic Link).

The '08 Coilair Supreme looks quite interesting, but the new design is yet to be proven. I look forward to the next frame blowout at Wheelworld end of the season next year... certainly would't shell out $4600 the complete bike.
 
Dec 26, 2007
16
0
Hankins, NY
I have an '07 Mongoose Black Diamond Triple. I walked into the shop thinking I was going to buy an Ironhorse 7 point 5, and after test riding both bikes I was equally pleased with both. However, the Mongoose was $700 less, 3 pounds lighter and had comparable spec., making the choice pretty easy. I have beat the crap out of it at diablo and it has given me zero problems except for a bent pivot bearing which was speedily replaced under warranty. I just wish Mongoose would drop their sh**** line of Walmart bikes. It would sure help their company image.
 

unskilled

Monkey
Jul 12, 2007
219
0
well, i see this post went to hell since i posted it. NOT that excellent points are not stated and many internal arguements had, but i guess the point of "problems with kona build quality" was covered as well. I had heard from friends that kona's break more frequently than other bikes, but thanks for all around opinions on the bike. I agree that there are flashier designs and that a stab/stinky with dope is base but gets the job done. I agree with the above stated that it is all personal preference.
 

flowtron

Chimp
Aug 21, 2006
11
0
Denver
I rode a 2005 Stinky Supreme for 3 seasons of DH racing and riding and never had any problems with the bearings, bolts, headtubes, anything. I beat the piss out of that bike and it treated me well. I got faster on it every season too.
Last year I got a 07 Stab Supreme, I wasn't too crazy about it until I got the Roco Pushed, then we started to get along much better. It's a simple, solid, race proven design. It's not the best in tight stuff, but when you can let it run its hard to find its limit. I'll probably be racing it again this season with the slight mod of normal axle/derailler..I gotta ditch that Saint crap.