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Kona's 4x offerings

Apr 9, 2004
516
8
Mount Carmel,PA
the Cowan is a fully single speed dirt jumper. the ds stands for dual suspension, not dual slolam. the Howler is the designed for 4x/ds. I had a Du Du back in the day. the geometry was great but it was way overbuilt and heavy. The howler seems like a lightened up version and should be a good ride. Can't wait to test ride one.
 

mandown

Poopdeck Repost
Jun 1, 2004
15,871
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Transylvania 90210
quite honestly, i don't give a damn about the man's opinion on 24" wheels. i dig them. if his mutant design allows others to have a good time on a bike, then so what. let him hate 24's. he did not build the bike so that it is impossible to run them (how would you do that, anyway). a lot of people don't like steering dampers or lock on grips or pink paint jobs, but you can still get bikes that have those features.

i dig the bike. i have heard questionable things about the pedaling on concentric pivot bikes. however, as stated earlier, this is a short travel bike, so it won't be as noticeable. i could see how this rig with a 1X9 or 1X8 or a single speed set up and a pike would be a kick a$$ ride.
 

OGRipper

back alley ripper
Feb 3, 2004
10,104
550
NORCAL is the hizzle
Kadvang, I wasn't talking about Cowan's riding, I was talking about progression in the equipment and riding in general. That includes borrowing from other kinds of bikes and riding - influence comes from all over the place. I don't know Cowan and I sure as hell don't worship him but I don't feel the need to dis the guy either - he's just a pro doing what he does and trying to sell bikes. When I drilled out my bmx stem for a front cable in like '82 I didn't care what anyone else thought, all I knew was that it made tailwhips and boomerangs easier. You just sound jealous.
 

The Kadvang

I rule
Apr 13, 2004
3,501
0
six five oh
OGRipper said:
Kadvang, I wasn't talking about Cowan's riding, I was talking about progression in the equipment and riding in general. That includes borrowing from other kinds of bikes and riding - influence comes from all over the place. I don't know Cowan and I sure as hell don't worship him but I don't feel the need to dis the guy either - he's just a pro doing what he does and trying to sell bikes. When I drilled out my bmx stem for a front cable in like '82 I didn't care what anyone else thought, all I knew was that it made tailwhips and boomerangs easier. You just sound jealous.
Nah I agree with you about the need to borrow from different influences- I just don't think that putting pegs on a full suspension has any purpose at all, besides looking totally RADGNAR. Gyro, meh... run one if you want, but why bother when you can just run long cables and a hollow starnut? Again, its for the cool factor.

Yea I'm definitly not jealous of cowan, sure I wish I could ride like him, but that would be true of the majority of riders. I just wish I could throw the horns like he does.
 
Sep 29, 2004
281
0
Sherpa said:
Cowan is a fag, if he wants pegs and a gyro, he should ride a BMX bike. It wouldn't be so bad if he didn't say he wanted to keep mountain biking mountain biking by banning certain kinds of bikes.
but hes a better rider than you
 

bballe336

Turbo Monkey
Mar 3, 2005
1,757
0
MA
mandown said:
let him hate 24's. he did not build the bike so that it is impossible to run them (how would you do that, anyway).
jamis did it on a few of their bikes. they have hydro formed chainstays that go inward so you couldn't really even get a 24 inch rim with a tire in the frame. its 26 or bust.

and as for the gyro matter it really isn't "progressive". BMX has started moving away from gyro's and just running longer cables. but otherwise the bike seems pretty well thought out. except for the concentric pivot. I don't understand why they would do this. its a DJ bike right? then you want it to be rather stiff in the rear end and the concentric would make it bob wouldn't it?
 

black noise

Turbo Monkey
Dec 31, 2004
1,033
0
Santa Cruz
Bobbing doesn't equal a flexy rear end. Bobbing is unwanted up-down movement of the suspension due to pedaling, whereas flex would be more like side-to-side bend of the frame. I don't know if that kind of pivot would do that though.

And it's there so people can run singlespeeds easily if they feel like it, like a lot of DJers already do. Or a Rolhoff hub if you're a strange person.
 

Colin

Monkey
Nov 5, 2001
372
0
in my tiny apartment
Well, I personally like the idea of being able to run a singlespeed full suspension bike. With a 'platform' shock it shouldn't be too bad of a 'pedaler,' right? A 5"-travel fork, air shock, mid-weight components.
 

bikenweed

Turbo Monkey
Oct 21, 2004
2,435
0
Los Osos
bballe336 said:
jamis did it on a few of their bikes. they have hydro formed chainstays that go inward so you couldn't really even get a 24 inch rim with a tire in the frame. its 26 or bust.

and as for the gyro matter it really isn't "progressive". BMX has started moving away from gyro's and just running longer cables. but otherwise the bike seems pretty well thought out. except for the concentric pivot. I don't understand why they would do this. its a DJ bike right? then you want it to be rather stiff in the rear end and the concentric would make it bob wouldn't it?
I know a lot of people on this forum use the Odyssey Linear Slic cable, and this is the embracing of technology. Odyssey Linear Slic cables do not need to ran long, in fact, they work best a regular length. This is very popular with both MTBers and BMXers. Simple, light, strong, cheap. hella. Hydraulic discs also work great after a barspin, just be careful not to sever your hose. I just wrote five paragraphs why I think it's completely stupid to put a gyro on a mountain bike, but I'll keep it off here, it'll just make all those who love new gadgets angry that a gimmick they love is actually a POS. Ride like you mean it!
 

MisterMental

Monkey
Jul 26, 2002
385
0
UK
ive met cowan and i have to say hes a sound bloke, who cares if he doesnt set his bike up how youd like it, its his bike, your not being forced to ride it.
remember its all personal preference, yeah theres gyro tabs there but just because theyre there you dont HAVE to you them, heaven forbid you could NOT use them! shock horror, whoever thought of that.
surely its better to have the option and not want it than not have it and want it.
its all personal preference. next youll be slagging off riders that run their front brake from the right hand lever saying thats its regression of the sport.
its all personal, do what feels good for you, ride how you like, theres no point riding with a style that your forced to use cause some twat on the internet takes the piss out of you for riding how YOU want or having the bike setup that YOU want.

actually screw all that i think we should all set up our bikes exactly how The Kadvang has his set up cause thats obviously the right way to do things and is best for the progression of the sport

ride how YOU want, and if that means setting your bike up how YOU want f-k what everyone else says its your bike. somethings may work for you and not others.
 

OGRipper

back alley ripper
Feb 3, 2004
10,104
550
NORCAL is the hizzle
MisterMental has got it. People are already doing double bar spins, that is part of the progression of mtb riding. And they are pretty damn tough without a gyro or cables that are freaky long. Since most of you will never do one, you probably don't understand. Plus, in a comp run do you really want to need to spin your bars back so your cable isn't binding? Some of you guys sound surprisingly small-minded. I mean it's all opinion and we're just yammering here, but just because you don't see the need for something for YOUR kind of riding doesn't mean someone else doesn't want or need it.
 

scurban

Turbo Monkey
Jul 11, 2004
1,052
0
SC
Sandwich said:
holy crap this bike is totally new and revolutionary.






The arrow was the first bike I thought of when I saw the cowens concentric pivot setup. From what I've heard the arrow pedaled like crap right?

Odyssey Linear cables are the new way to set up bmx bikes. Eventually Mtbr's will realize that Gyros are added un-needed weight. why run a gyro if you can run long hydro/odyssey cables?

Don't get me wrong, I like the bike a lot, I'd love to have a single speed "freeride bike" I guess if someone set up rails out on the trails, or cut edges on fallen trees for grinds, I might run pegs on a freeride bike. Hmmmm, but then again i could just pedal grind too. Most Bmx riders I know are taking their pegs off too, so I don't know why Mtbr's are starting to throw them on their bikes.??? Interesting.
 

scurban

Turbo Monkey
Jul 11, 2004
1,052
0
SC
OGRipper said:
MisterMental has got it. People are already doing double bar spins, that is part of the progression of mtb riding. And they are pretty damn tough without a gyro or cables that are freaky long. Since most of you will never do one, you probably don't understand. Plus, in a comp run do you really want to need to spin your bars back so your cable isn't binding? Some of you guys sound surprisingly small-minded. I mean it's all opinion and we're just yammering here, but just because you don't see the need for something for YOUR kind of riding doesn't mean someone else doesn't want or need it.

Barspins arent hard, In fact I think everyone on this thread should go out and practice them. Once everyone has actually thrown one then they should start forming opinions on gyro's. :rolleyes:

You brought up a good point on competitions, Recently in the Redbull district ride, I saw Cam McCual's (on rip tv) where he did at least 2 barspins, and a tailwhip in one run. He did it without a gyro. I'm sure he had to barspin one direction, then the other direction in order to get proper cable set up for a tailwhip. A gyro may have been helpful here in the event that McCual did not run gears.

The point you brought up is valid for sure, but there are also ways around it. T
 

MisterMental

Monkey
Jul 26, 2002
385
0
UK
scurban said:
Don't get me wrong, I like the bike a lot, I'd love to have a single speed "freeride bike" I guess if someone set up rails out on the trails, or cut edges on fallen trees for grinds, I might run pegs on a freeride bike. Hmmmm, but then again i could just pedal grind too. Most Bmx riders I know are taking their pegs off too, so I don't know why Mtbr's are starting to throw them on their bikes.??? Interesting.
thats because the bmx industry is very fashion oriented, or at least it is over here.
it goes through phases,
pegs/no pegs, gyros/long cable, superlight frames/heavy frames, 32spoke wheels/ 46spoke wheels, ti frames/ alu frames, bmx bbs/mtb bbs. as i see it bmx isnt anywhere near as innovative as mtb and because of this the manufacturers have to keep reinventing the wheel so to say so that it all looks good and trick so that when kids see pros with ti frames they want one so itll sell, the kids see someone busting a double backflip barspin with a gyro and no pegs and then all the kids want a gyro and no pegs.
cant speak for over the pond but thats pretty much how it works over here.
99.9% of bmxers over here are fashion victim fags who only do it for the image.
 

OGRipper

back alley ripper
Feb 3, 2004
10,104
550
NORCAL is the hizzle
I don't know anyone who wants a cable that is long enough for double bar spins or double tailwhips. Why does anyone care if some people want a gyro or pegs on an MTB? Some of you have not been around long enough to realize it, but you are holding sacred something that is always changing. Nobody said you have to ride it or like it - but it's funny that supposedly open minds seem slammed shut.
 

MisterMental

Monkey
Jul 26, 2002
385
0
UK
indeed, its not like anyones going to force them to spend their money on something they dont even want.
if you dont like it dont f-king buy it
 

The Kadvang

I rule
Apr 13, 2004
3,501
0
six five oh
MisterMental said:
i
remember its all personal preference, yeah theres gyro tabs there but just because theyre there you dont HAVE to you them, heaven forbid you could NOT use them! shock horror, whoever thought of that.
surely its better to have the option and not want it than not have it and want it.
its all personal preference. next youll be slagging off riders that run their front brake from the right hand lever saying thats its regression of the sport.
its all personal, do what feels good for you, ride how you like, theres no point riding with a style that your forced to use cause some twat on the internet takes the piss out of you for riding how YOU want or having the bike setup that YOU want.

actually screw all that i think we should all set up our bikes exactly how The Kadvang has his set up cause thats obviously the right way to do things and is best for the progression of the sport

ride how YOU want, and if that means setting your bike up how YOU want f-k what everyone else says its your bike. somethings may work for you and not others.
Right brah, its called an opinion. My opinion is that that bike has a lot of useless crap that is just used for looking cool, not progressing the sport.
 

OGRipper

back alley ripper
Feb 3, 2004
10,104
550
NORCAL is the hizzle
It's funny that you two actually agree that we should all ride what we want. I think the difference is that some people here don't seem to see anything good outside what they want.
 

Spunger

Git yer dumb questions here
Feb 19, 2003
2,258
0
805
For the DJ crowd it makes sense to run a gyro. They are cheap, disc brake capable, and fix 99% of all cable/bar spin type issues. It opens everything up to Barspins/Tail whips etc....

The pegs........well I thought that's why MTB guys did pedal grinds, but the pegs will make it alot easier to get off a grind, and guys from a BMX background can adapt pretty easy. I like the gyro idea better than pegs though as once the pegs bend an axle or tweek a frame that'll be the end of that.

Cowan is more of a DJ guy, not a Aaron chase type rider. I've never see Cowan do anything other than DJ in videos so the gyro fits perfectly.
 

ChrisRobin

Turbo Monkey
Jan 30, 2002
3,180
109
Vancouver
motomike said:
I was wondering why this thread was so long...

Because whenever the name Kona shows up in a thread title, you have to make room for about 40 posts saying how crappy the frame/company is.
 

The Kadvang

I rule
Apr 13, 2004
3,501
0
six five oh
Spunger said:
For the DJ crowd it makes sense to run a gyro. They are cheap, disc brake capable, and fix 99% of all cable/bar spin type issues. It opens everything up to Barspins/Tail whips etc....

The pegs........well I thought that's why MTB guys did pedal grinds, but the pegs will make it alot easier to get off a grind, and guys from a BMX background can adapt pretty easy. I like the gyro idea better than pegs though as once the pegs bend an axle or tweek a frame that'll be the end of that.

Cowan is more of a DJ guy, not a Aaron chase type rider. I've never see Cowan do anything other than DJ in videos so the gyro fits perfectly.
Except gyros make the braking on your mountain bike feel like poop, whereas a long cable doesn't... and you can spin the bars plenty of times.

Thats my point about the pegs, cowan runs em to look cool.
 

mandown

Poopdeck Repost
Jun 1, 2004
15,871
3,037
Transylvania 90210
ChrisRobin said:
Because whenever the name Kona shows up in a thread title, you have to make room for about 40 posts saying how crappy the frame/company is.
no doubt. why all the hate? they make a good product. they don't make a great product, but they certainly don't make crap. kona has a wide variety of bikes, all of which do the the job they are intended to do, all at a fair price. no radical new designs (though the pegs and gyro do seem fairly unique for mtbs). that can be boring for some, however it is nice to know that they don't change with the wind. it is like buying an american car. it has flaws, but it still gets the job done. doesn't have the bells & whistles of the japanese or euro designs, but still gets the job done.

as for the peg and gyro - it is a hole near the dropout and a weld on the head tube. they extra weight of the gyro is probably offset by the hole. niether item is "required" to use the bike. more fun, is the fact that you can have a burly little single speed jumper with some rear squish. as mentioned earlier, the concentric bb pivot isn't great, but won't be very noticeable on a short travel bike.
 

dropmachine

Turbo Monkey
Sep 7, 2001
2,923
10
Your face.
mandown said:
no doubt. why all the hate? they make a good product. they don't make a great product, but they certainly don't make crap. kona has a wide variety of bikes, all of which do the the job they are intended to do, all at a fair price. no radical new designs (though the pegs and gyro do seem fairly unique for mtbs). that can be boring for some, however it is nice to know that they don't change with the wind. it is like buying an american car. it has flaws, but it still gets the job done. doesn't have the bells & whistles of the japanese or euro designs, but still gets the job done.

as for the peg and gyro - it is a hole near the dropout and a weld on the head tube. they extra weight of the gyro is probably offset by the hole. niether item is "required" to use the bike. more fun, is the fact that you can have a burly little single speed jumper with some rear squish. as mentioned earlier, the concentric bb pivot isn't great, but won't be very noticeable on a short travel bike.


Agreed. In some cases, I'd call the bikes great. Hell, they won the worlds didnt' they? Not bad for a "decent" company.

The thing thats really appealling about Kona, is that they make bikes true to themselves. They don't just stick stuff out there witht he flavor of the week design, they don't put in superfluous crap to make the frames look neat, and they don't just jam fancy junk in there to be different. They build bikes that are damn well priced, and usually work better then the cost justifies. They take a ton of abuse, and come back for more.

I think the hate comes from snobs and asshat magazines that constantly push the idea that new and revised must be better. Kona rocks right along and ignores all that, making bikes that ride well, are a ton of fun, and just refuse to die.
 

MisterMental

Monkey
Jul 26, 2002
385
0
UK
cause nobodys broken a kona swingarm have they...
and nobodys has had any issues with warranty replacements or anything like that...
 

dropmachine

Turbo Monkey
Sep 7, 2001
2,923
10
Your face.
Sure they've broken. But its not like they break riding down the street. They break when they are pushed past thier limits.

So does everything else. Whats your point?
 

MisterMental

Monkey
Jul 26, 2002
385
0
UK
my point is your more likely to get a blowjob off the virgin mary than get anything with kona written on it warrantied over here regardless of how it broke. they just dont want to know
 

mandown

Poopdeck Repost
Jun 1, 2004
15,871
3,037
Transylvania 90210
dropmachine.com said:
Sure they've broken. But its not like they break riding down the street. They break when they are pushed past thier limits.
they also break because manufacturing has a defect rate. it is hard to avoid. good QC can help reduce it, but nothing can prevent it.

fortunately most people who ride bikes hard these days are willing to accept a couple more pounds on the frame (thanks to tubless and air shocks and people who just don't care about weight), so the extra metal can add strength and reduce breakage.
 
May 12, 2005
977
0
roanoke va
does any one know if the howler has a full lenght seat tube?
regardless of the hate, i'm getting a howler esp if it's got the full ST. that bike is going to be fun as crap and i know since it's a kona i'll be able to beat it up and have it still roll. get a x2 chainring up ft and that would be my do everything bike.
 

punkassean

Turbo Monkey
Feb 3, 2002
4,564
0
SC, CA
MisterMental said:
cause nobodys broken a kona swingarm have they...
and nobodys has had any issues with warranty replacements or anything like that...
`
The Kona rental fleet at Whislter has well over a million vertical feet logged w/o a SINGLE frame failure! Kona may have had some minor frame issues in past (name a company that didn't though!) but due to many refinemets over the years they are more or less bullet-proof these days. Also Kona USA and Kona Canada are very easy to deal with as far as warranty issues go, I have never dealt with Kon Europe though....
 

OGRipper

back alley ripper
Feb 3, 2004
10,104
550
NORCAL is the hizzle
punkassean said:
`
The Kona rental fleet at Whislter has well over a million vertical feet logged w/o a SINGLE frame failure!
Yeah but everyone knows rental bikes are not cool, therefore Kona bikes are not cool. I will not be seen riding or endorsing some noob's ghey rental bike. Because, you know, that would not be cool. And I am nothing if not cool. :D