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Krauthammer: Strike before Iran's nukes get hot

N8 v2.0

Not the sharpest tool in the shed
Oct 18, 2002
11,003
149
The Cleft of Venus
Strike before Iran's nukes get hot
NY Daily News | 23 Jul | Charles Krauthammer

Did we invade the wrong country? One of the lessons now being drawn from the 9/11 report is that Iran was the real threat. The Iraq War critics have a new line of attack: We should have done Iran instead.
Well, of course Iran is a threat. But how exactly would the critics have "done" Iran? Iran is a serious country with a serious army. Can you imagine the Iraq War critics actually supporting war with Iran?

If not war, what then? The Bush administration, having decided that invading one axis-of-evil country was about as much as the country can bear, has gone multilateral on Iran. Washington delegated the issue to a committee of three - the foreign ministers of Britain, France and Germany - that has been meeting with the Iranians to get them to shut down their nuclear program.

The result? They have been led by the nose. Time is of the essence, and the runaround that the Tehran Three have gotten from the mullahs has meant that we have lost at least nine months in doing anything to stop the Iranian nuclear program.

Iran instead of Iraq? The Iraq critics would have done nothing about either country. There would today be two major Islamic countries sitting on an ocean of oil, supporting terrorism and seeking weapons of mass destruction - instead of one.

Two years ago, there were five countries supporting terror and pursuing WMDs - two junior-leaguers, Libya and Syria, and the axis-of-evil varsity: Iraq, Iran and North Korea. The Bush administration has just eliminated two: Iraq, by direct military means, and Libya, by example and intimidation.

Syria is weak and deterred by Israel. North Korea, having gone nuclear, is untouchable. That leaves Iran. There are only two things that will stop the Iranian nuclear program: revolution from below or an attack on its nuclear facilities.

The country should be ripe for revolution. But the mullahs are very good at police-state tactics. The long-awaited revolution is not happening. Which makes the question of preemptive attack all the more urgent. Iran will go nuclear during the next presidential term. If nothing is done, a fanatical terrorist regime openly dedicated to the destruction of the "Great Satan" will have both nuclear weapons and the terrorists and missiles to deliver them. All that stands between us and that is either revolution or preemptive strike.

Both of which, by the way, are far more likely to succeed with 146,000 American troops and highly sophisticated aircraft standing by just a few miles away - in Iraq.
 

Silver

find me a tampon
Jul 20, 2002
10,840
1
Orange County, CA
Once again ignoring the huge pink elephant in the room...the Saudis.

How many of the hijackers were Iraqi again? 15 of 19, wasn't it?
 

LordOpie

MOTHER HEN
Oct 17, 2002
21,022
3
Denver
Silver said:
Once again ignoring the huge pink elephant in the room...the Saudis.

How many of the hijackers were Iraqi again? 15 of 19, wasn't it?
yeah, but this is a different issue. We can't let anyone else have nukes.
 

Changleen

Paranoid Member
Jan 9, 2004
14,903
2,864
Pōneke
Why is America so fvcking afraid of anyone else getting the bomb? China have the Bomb. France have the Bomb. Pakistan and India have the Bomb. ****, that fvckwit murderer Sharon has the Bomb. But Iran, OH NO, they CANNOT have the bomb!

Maybe if America wern't such assholes to everyone else in the world, they wouldn't be so scared that someone else might get hold of it. The though process behind the person who wrote's N8's article and Opie's response is that if Iran get the Bomb, they will use it to attack America. Well, you may be right. I personally think not. But, what you are failing to ask is why do you think the first think they will do is attack you?

Because you are the great Satan? Why does the whole 2nd and 3rd world think you are the great Satan? Could it be years of being shat on from a great height by American foriegn policy? Could it the current Administrations ridiculous hypocracy in world affairs?

Aside from that, N8, that article - Jeeze.

"Washington delegated the issue to a committee of three - the foreign ministers of Britain, France and Germany - that has been meeting with the Iranians to get them to shut down their nuclear program.

The result? They have been led by the nose. Time is of the essence, and the runaround that the Tehran Three have gotten from the mullahs has meant that we have lost at least nine months in doing anything to stop the Iranian nuclear program."

1. "Washington Delegated the issue". No it ****ing didn't. Actually the EU was taking a stand on this before you even could point to Iran on a map. Anyway, I thought Rumsfield 'doesn't do delegation' (does he do anything?)

2. "They have been led by the nose." Another example of the shortsighted, now now now, me me me culture that increasingly pervades America. Do you seriously know **** about what has been going on? Until jump-in-feet-first got involved, Iran saw no need to obtain atomic weapons, even in the face of the Israeli Bomb.
It is only since America's increasingly militaristic idiot neo-con policy got involved that Iran felt the need to have a deterent. It is widely understood that Iran started the path down Nuclear street after observing the US/NK situation. Once again, US sticks its nose in, things get worse. You can't just waltz into Iran and be 'Oh, Stop doing that! We don't want you to!' Iran is not some some country that can be bullied by the US into doing what you want. The best way to deal with them is co-operative an constructive discourse. This takes time. This is also something that America has never seemed to understand, especially recently. The EU has suceeded in gaining Iran's co-operation in allowing inspectors into the country (until the US applied to much pressure to fast and made them clam up), negotiating halting of use of centrifuges, (again, apparantly under threat because of US 'diplomatic pressure') and generally averting the crisis.

Suddenly though, Iraq is bad news so GW needs a new focus for the war on terror - guess who? Iran! Look away from Iraq, it's all going to ****, but we don't care any more. Now be scared of Iran. They might NUKE US! Bush starts spouting crap about it all, and guess what, Iran are suddenly uncooperative again, and (not just three) months of quiet, behind the scenes diplomacy on the part of the UN is blown to bits. Well done America. Well done GW. If you do get nuked you'll know who to blame, and maybe, just maybe, you'll learn a lesson. But I fvcking doubt it.
 

ALEXIS_DH

Tirelessly Awesome
Jan 30, 2003
6,257
881
Lima, Peru, Peru
Changleen said:
Why is America so fvcking afraid of anyone else getting the bomb? China have the Bomb. France have the Bomb. Pakistan and India have the Bomb. ****, that fvckwit murderer Sharon has the Bomb. But Iran, OH NO, they CANNOT have the bomb!

Maybe if America wern't such assholes to everyone else in the world, they wouldn't be so scared that someone else might get hold of it. The though process behind the person who wrote's N8's article and Opie's response is that if Iran get the Bomb, they will use it to attack America. Well, you may be right. I personally think not. But, what you are failing to ask is why do you think the first think they will do is attack you?
.

well, i think every country should have the chance to whatever it pleases. specially when u have one superpower that can invade you whenever it pleases, under whatever "threat", reason or hallucination they might have like with Iraq.

so i think, its very unlikely somebody will strike directly the US first; and basicaly the reason they want to go nuclear is to have is as a defensive weapon and deterrent of posible future intervention. that is to me a valid reason, and that is actually protecting their freedom, by no violent means.
a la confucious, to fight is bad, but not to be able to fight is worse.

if iraq really had WMD or a ICBM, do you think is would have been so easy to take the decision to invade?? and lets not forget which was the only country to ever use nuclear weapons in an offensive manner. which leads me to think, the US doesnt want anybody else to have WMD, because they want to be the only "threat" to the world.

according to what? well, to the own reasoning of its leaders, owners of some perfect ultimate right of truth, speech and action. and basically that unilateral decision of i´m dad, and you´ll do what i want because i make no mistakes, so stfu, is what pisses off most people overseas.
 

LordOpie

MOTHER HEN
Oct 17, 2002
21,022
3
Denver
umm, no one should have nukes, period. But I'm glad some of you think there aren't enough nukes in the world. Nukes for everyone! Yea! Wheeee!
 

ALEXIS_DH

Tirelessly Awesome
Jan 30, 2003
6,257
881
Lima, Peru, Peru
LordOpie said:
umm, no one should have nukes, period. But I'm glad some of you think there aren't enough nukes in the world. Nukes for everyone! Yea! Wheeee!

well, i think its not like everyone should have them, but everyone should have the right to do what it pleases, as long as it doesnt kill anybody else.

so, whose ethics makes the US the one to administer who gets the pie and who doesnt, or who appointed them such right other than ethnocentric infatuated rightwingers???

of course nukes are a very delicate matter. and i´d think allowing a UN ultimate ban on who cannot have nukes would be OK, based on nation votes. a democracy at a goverment level. just like UN was trying to have.

but not some country who thinks it has some sort of god-appointed right to know better than anyone else. after all, nukes are as much a problem to the world, as to the 5% of its population which the US represents.

and you just should not, and ethically cannot go and stomp this world level democracy and say, $hit i know am right so fvck y´all.

in this country-citizen, world-society scenario, imagine a citizen telling that to a judge and taking justice in any way he thinks, with complete disregard of others safety or integrity. or not allowing anybody else to get the same defensive tools he has ,telling everyone else, am the only one that can have shotguns, and then go around shooting anybody he pleases for whatever reason he can find. he is as delincuent as any other delincuent.

now, if nukes were a sovereign decision, then well, the field would be more level, and against the bully, dont you think??? and maybe in a utilitarian perspective, overall welfare would be much bigger than with a bully loaded. and that was the original purpose of the UN.
 

LordOpie

MOTHER HEN
Oct 17, 2002
21,022
3
Denver
ALEXIS_DH said:
umm, no one should have nukes, period. But I'm glad some of you think there aren't enough nukes in the world. Nukes for everyone! Yea! Wheeee!
well, i think its not like everyone should have them, but everyone should have the right to do what it pleases, as long as it doesnt kill anybody else.
OMG! That was so awesome!
 

ALEXIS_DH

Tirelessly Awesome
Jan 30, 2003
6,257
881
Lima, Peru, Peru
the world is safer if nobody has nukes, or if anybody who can be a threat has them.
i read a very long argument on that in some game theory book not so long ago.

just think if CCCP had nukes and the US not. or what if the US had them and CCCP had not. nuclear war would have been more likely that what i was.