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Lacing up a New Wheel

6thElement

Schrodinger's Immigrant
Jul 29, 2008
15,829
13,071
I've always found straight pull non-bladed a pain. Latest bikes for wifey and I have them :/
 

MikeD

Leader and Demogogue of the Ridemonkey Satinists
Oct 26, 2001
11,669
1,713
chez moi
Actually the tapered countersink shape of the head should wedge good enough to not be a problem.
That was my assumption but The Internet constantly mentioned it as an issue when I was looking up instructions on lacing straight-pull wheels.
 

englertracing

you owe me a sandwich
Mar 5, 2012
1,573
1,069
La Verne
Well yeah but I'm not qualified for bladed spokes...that's too fancy for me...

Course a fancy tool to hold them straight seems even sillier than one for round. They're flat...can't you just use a solid piece of metal with a slot in it? Or a $1.50 mini adjustable wrench?
its actually reall bad ass to be able to see the spoke windup, and to be able to hold them, my spoke holder is a piece of aluminum with a widened hacksaw slot, but the dt swiss one has a long piece that holds the spoke closer to the nipple, which is more ideal
spoke holder.jpg
 

Sandwich

Pig my fish!
Staff member
May 23, 2002
21,032
5,925
borcester rhymes
late to the thread, but yes, all of this. I built my first and current wheelset with carbon rims, double butted spokes, brass nips, anti-sieze, q tips, and a lot of time. I used the spoke wrench to test the evenness of tension, but I didn't have a tensiononmeter. Seems to have worked ok!
 

jonKranked

Detective Dookie
Nov 10, 2005
85,573
24,193
media blackout
late to the thread, but yes, all of this. I built my first and current wheelset with carbon rims, double butted spokes, brass nips, anti-sieze, q tips, and a lot of time. I used the spoke wrench to test the evenness of tension, but I didn't have a tensiononmeter. Seems to have worked ok!
i still have yet to lace a set of carbon rims myself. although one of my carbon wheels does need some spokes replaced.
 

Sandwich

Pig my fish!
Staff member
May 23, 2002
21,032
5,925
borcester rhymes
i still have yet to lace a set of carbon rims myself. although one of my carbon wheels does need some spokes replaced.
IMO It was nicer for an amateur/untalented builder because the rims are so rigid and true from the factory. It did not take much effort to get it true as a wheel. It was just a matter of flattening out low spots and dishing it, neither of which were a challenge. Then I just tensioned it until I felt like it, and checked the sound of each spoke to make sure it was even.

It really was a pretty zen experience and I suggest any home mechanic to do it. Doing it with a newborn was perfect because that was my "out"
 

MikeD

Leader and Demogogue of the Ridemonkey Satinists
Oct 26, 2001
11,669
1,713
chez moi
Since you guys are here...

Wheel I am thinking of building, 32h, calls for

Front left 288.1
Front right 286.6

Rear left 289
Rear right 288.4

I couldn't get away with just 287 or 288 for all positions, could I? Figuring I could use 286 front right and 288 everywhere else.

Anyone wanna pitch a fave spoke source? (I had been looking at some ebay custom lengths so could get odd sizes if I wanted, such as 287...)
 

Westy

the teste
Nov 22, 2002
54,241
20,025
Sleazattle
Recently found some hard to find spokes at BikeHubstore.com.

If in between sizes I would think the spoke should be considered in sizing. Some long triple butted spokes will have significantly more stretch than spokes for a straight gage 26" wheel.

You could also size up and use Sapim double square nipples which I believe can take up to a 2mm longer spoke.

Nipple washers could do the same thing and help build a better wheel IMO.
 
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MikeD

Leader and Demogogue of the Ridemonkey Satinists
Oct 26, 2001
11,669
1,713
chez moi
Well, at least I ordered the rims and hubs. The Funns and the Bitex. Super-budget/value package, I hope.

I have wondered in the past if washers would keep me from rounding out nipples so easily. They always seem to freeze in place at some point, even if I grease or anti-seize them, and I thought the washers might keep another layer of protection/cleanliness going... Maybe I could use alloy vice brass if I tried the washers, too, but that makes me nervous. I am too much of a hack for alloy.

Planning on basic double-butted spokes, nothing fancy.
 

Jm_

sled dog's bollocks
Jan 14, 2002
18,855
9,560
AK
Washers won’t help with spokes welding to nipples (freezing). The right anti seize will.
 

MikeD

Leader and Demogogue of the Ridemonkey Satinists
Oct 26, 2001
11,669
1,713
chez moi
Hm. I always used copper paste between nipple and spoke, and some grease between nipple and rim.

(Ed: actually, nickel-based antiseize for most of my older builds...copped for my last one because I had it on hand.)
 
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Westy

the teste
Nov 22, 2002
54,241
20,025
Sleazattle
Washers reduce friction and prevent modern eyelet-less rims from digging into the nipple reducing strength.

After only ever having issues with alloy nipples corroding on my front wheels I think my tendency to pour sweat from my head was partially to blame. Started rinsing my bike off after each ride even if clean and haven't had problems since.
 

MikeD

Leader and Demogogue of the Ridemonkey Satinists
Oct 26, 2001
11,669
1,713
chez moi
Rims received. Damned nice-looking. Measured ERD with the two-spokes-and-a-vernier method and it was dead nuts on the quoted 594mm, very round. Now time to order spokes. Thinking Pillar triple-butted because why the hell not, standard brass 12mm nips.

Back to the OP tho... @Carraig042 how is those wheels going?
 

Carraig042

me 1st
Apr 5, 2011
732
353
East Tennessee
Pretty good so far. I think I under tensioned them at first due to my Chinese spoke tension gauge not being calibrated. I think I will make a calibration jig soon. For now I calibrated it to be close to the front spokes.
 

Westy

the teste
Nov 22, 2002
54,241
20,025
Sleazattle
Never heard of pillar spokes until now, wich is a confusing name as spokes only work in tension and pillars in compression.
 

MikeD

Leader and Demogogue of the Ridemonkey Satinists
Oct 26, 2001
11,669
1,713
chez moi
Never heard of pillar spokes until now, wich is a confusing name as spokes only work in tension and pillars in compression.
I only found them because you recommended Bikehubstore. It IS a bit ionic.
 

MikeD

Leader and Demogogue of the Ridemonkey Satinists
Oct 26, 2001
11,669
1,713
chez moi
It's getting to be like the Pedalponnesian War in this place.
 

Carraig042

me 1st
Apr 5, 2011
732
353
East Tennessee
I just got one of these. I looked at it more as a way to compare relative spoke tension than obtain an absolute measurement. Never used one before.
Right! My rear wheel spokes are now relative to each other and the front wheel. But... I may still make this device for fun.
 

MikeD

Leader and Demogogue of the Ridemonkey Satinists
Oct 26, 2001
11,669
1,713
chez moi
Bitex hubs *finally* received...guy from Israel sells them for like $178 a set on eBay, black only. Shipping time due to forwarding delay on my side. Very plain, seem quite nicely made.

Hope to start lacing this week, but the frame for these wheels won't even be here till mid-May absolute earliest, and more like June I would guess.
 

MikeD

Leader and Demogogue of the Ridemonkey Satinists
Oct 26, 2001
11,669
1,713
chez moi
I think it puts a specified tension on a spoke, to which you then calibrate your tensiometer...

For me, I'm just enjoying the $20 uncalibrated Amazon POS I bought as it helps me get things even all way round, if not to some specific absolute tension.
 

konifere

Monkey
Dec 20, 2021
513
634
Haha! Nice work @Carraig042 !

I bought a similar scale and did the same but with wood 2x4"s. I calibrated my Park TM-1 at 70, 80, 90, 100, 110 and 120kg and made a new park scale chart. I check it every spring when I prep my wheels for the season. Call me OCD I won't mind!

@Westy My friend said the exact same thing, but I figured I already had more luck of getting closer than without a scale. The Park TM-1s are consistent (which is what's most important IMO) but mine was reading around 10-15% more tension than what I got with my wooden calibration device and scale.
 

Carraig042

me 1st
Apr 5, 2011
732
353
East Tennessee
I think it puts a specified tension on a spoke, to which you then calibrate your tensiometer...

For me, I'm just enjoying the $20 uncalibrated Amazon POS I bought as it helps me get things even all way round, if not to some specific absolute tension.
That is exactly what I did for the wheel I built. I found my tension meter was way off, so I used my front wheel for reference.


But is your crane scale calibrated?

NIST traceable or GTFO

:)
Great, now I have to make another tool

Haha! Nice work @Carraig042 !

I bought a similar scale and did the same but with wood 2x4"s. I calibrated my Park TM-1 at 70, 80, 90, 100, 110 and 120kg and made a new park scale chart. I check it every spring when I prep my wheels for the season. Call me OCD I won't mind!
Thanks! It was easy to make and pretty cheap using aliexpress for most of the materials. I may be a little OCD too..