[loco-gringo]

Shops get guilt tripped too. I got a request for a demo bike tomorrow night from someone that has spent $15000 on bikes this last year, all outside of my shop. I have always dropped everything for on the spot repairs, given advice and participate on a instrumental part on their board for a local club. Just to watch online and out of town folks get their money. It's maddening. It's why owners become bitter and say f*#k you and do it their way. It's survival. Fortunately...for every bad customer I have 10 good ones.

 

[Ithnu]

I see your point but you then talked about how we just care about raping folks on labor.

No that's not what I meant, sorry. I just meant that the owner doesn't have to pay for the labor ahead of time (like they do with parts), so its easier to make money on it. And if the parts don't sell they're much worse off than if some one doesn't come in for a tune. And you can't buy a tune on-line so its a more guaranteed form of income.

I understand the frustration a shop has to have to help a person fix the bike with parts they bought on-line.

 

[KavuRider]

Imagine a world in which all business were as woefully unprepared as bike shops to serve their clientel.

"Hi I need suit for a job interview tomorrow"

"Well, we have this blue polyester liesure suit from 1974 in stock. Only $450 too."

"I was looking for something a little more modern"

"We can order it, will take about a week"

"Yeah but the interview is tomorrow, and I can order it myself"

"Oh sure, go ahead and support the corporations, conformist sheeple"

Could not have said it better.

 

[MMike]

Imagine a world in which all business were as woefully unprepared as bike shops to serve their clientel.

"Hi I need suit for a job interview tomorrow"

"Well, we have this blue polyester liesure suit from 1974 in stock. Only $450 too."

"I was looking for something a little more modern"

"We can order it, will take about a week"

"Yeah but the interview is tomorrow, and I can order it myself"

"Oh sure, go ahead and support the corporations, conformist sheeple"

Yep. That has always been my feeling. It's not my fault the shop is bad at serving its customers' needs. Like they say, "if it were easy, then everyone would be doing it"...

 

[loco-gringo]

No that's not what I meant, sorry. I just meant that the owner doesn't have to pay for the labor ahead of time (like they do with parts), so its easier to make money on it. And if the parts don't sell they're much worse off than if some one doesn't come in for a tune. And you can't buy a tune on-line so its a more guaranteed form of income.

I understand the frustration a shop has to have to help a person fix the bike with parts they bought on-line.

I don't mind helping, just don't complain that it costs money. My favorite is when it fails, like Golgi's post did and then they want help from the LBS.

BS is just mad that he wasn't capable of working on bikes for a living.

 

[loco-gringo]

Yep. That has always been my feeling. It's not my fault the shop is bad at serving its customers' needs. Like they say, "if it were easy, then everyone would be doing it"...

Not having a part that someone will whore out for $2 over cost is not lacking in service. If online stuff were so legit, mfg companies wouldn't be so adamant about stopping gray market sales. I too understand all of the complaints, but bitching that someone doesn't stock something they sit on or can't make money on is retarded. Online stuff is so cheap because you get no service. Perhaps you are smart enough to not need it, but that has never been evident here on Ridemonkey.

 

[MMike]

Not having a part that someone will whore out for $2 over cost is not lacking in service. If online stuff were so legit, mfg companies wouldn't be so adamant about stopping gray market sales. I too understand all of the complaints, but bitching that someone doesn't stock something they sit on or can't make money on is retarded. Online stuff is so cheap because you get no service. Perhaps you are smart enough to not need it, but that has never been evident here on Ridemonkey.

Do you HONESTLY believe that LBS's are the ONLY industry that has this problem?? Maintaining a proper inventory isn't easy. We have about 2000 different products for like 20 different models of helicopter. And yet we maintain a 96% same-day shipping history. We're able to do it because we keep the correct amounts of the correct parts. Because....wait for it.....we understand the needs of our customer base.

Boo-frickity-hoo!

edit: and this is not a big company. 70 employees.

 

[Da Peach]

I bet you even carry parts in rootbeer.

 

[loco-gringo]

Do you HONESTLY believe that LBS's are the ONLY industry that has this problem?? Maintaining a proper inventory isn't easy. We have about 2000 different products for like 20 different models of helicopter. And yet we maintain a 96% same-day shipping history. We're able to do it because we keep the correct amounts of the correct parts. Because....wait for it.....we understand the needs of our customer base.

Boo-frickity-hoo!

edit: and this is not a big company. 70 employees.

It is a specialty company though. I understand completely. I understand customer needs. Needs and wants are different things. I just wish there were 20 different bikes and I only had to stock 2000 parts. I have 4 employees and we stock over 4000 parts in one store. What's your point?

edit - and no...I know there are many industries with the same issue. I often direct people to shop online, but how would it be if there were 20 sites with your same 2000 parts that also shipped 96% same day?

 

[golgiaparatus]

I thought Oklahoma was flat. What would you need brakes for ?

No Kansas is flat. Oklahoma is of hill country. We've got some stuff here that hurt people that come in from Colorado.

 

[MMike]

It is a specialty company though. I understand completely. I understand customer needs. Needs and wants are different things. I just wish there were 20 different bikes and I only had to stock 2000 parts. I have 4 employees and we stock over 4000 parts in one store. What's your point?

edit - and no...I know there are many industries with the same issue. I often direct people to shop online, but how would it be if there were 20 sites with your same 2000 parts that also shipped 96% same day?

I didn't say 2000 parts. I said 2000 PRODUCTS.....each has a varying level of inventory.


And my point is that LBS's THINK they have it so tough. But in actual fact they more than likely are their own undoing for just running their business poorly. If they are merely just another retailer in an already saturated market, well then they'd better do something about it, other than whine about other places that are doing a better job at serving their customers.

 

[golgiaparatus]

I don't mind helping, just don't complain that it costs money. My favorite is when it fails, like Golgi's post did and then they want help from the LBS.

BS is just mad that he wasn't capable of working on bikes for a living.

I didn't ask them to help me with something that failed. I asked them if I could buy a part.

 

[loco-gringo]

I didn't say 2000 parts. I said 2000 PRODUCTS.....each has a varying level of inventory.


And my point is that LBS's THINK they have it so tough. But in actual fact they more than likely are their own undoing for just running their business poorly. If they are merely just another retailer in an already saturated market, well then they'd better do something about it, other than whine about other places that are doing a better job at serving their customers.

You should understand...I do fine here. My point is, it's a blanket statement of retardedness every time someone points out how sh*tty bike shops are. Many are not.

 

[wreckedrex]

I don't really have a problem with the idea of a shop having to order the part. There are just far too many different parts on the market for anyone to realistically stock the one specific configuration of the particular model of random component from the preferred brand of some random putz. I've really had just one problem with this in practice: Parts are odered on Wednesdays, and it's Thursday afternoon. Or (my personal favorite) "Oh, sorry dude,the guy who orders parts was out last week..." I'm not going to wait a week for you to order parts and pay a premium for the privilege. Sorry.

 

[loco-gringo]

Lest me there? I didn't ask them to help me with something that failed. I asked them if I could buy a part.

I know. Then you expected an online company that doesn't know you to treat you like a shop would. I know you're a super model and all, but that's just asking too much.

 

[loco-gringo]

I don't really have a problem with the idea of a shop having to order the part. There are just far too many different parts on the market for anyone to realistically stock the one specific configuration of the particular model of random component from the preferred brand of some random putz. I've really had just one problem with this in practice: Parts are odered on Wednesdays, and it's Thursday afternoon. Or (my personal favorite) "Oh, sorry dude,the guy who orders parts was out last week..." I'm not going to wait a week for you to order parts and pay a premium for the privilege. Sorry.

Agreed. Unfortunately...the bike industry is pretty awful. I have a ton of distributor ball drops. I am only always successful with QBP. They often cost more, but are good at what they do.

 

[jimmydean]

Agreed. Unfortunately...the bike industry is pretty awful. I have a ton of distributor ball drops. I am only always successful with QBP. They often cost more, but are good at what they do.

When Jeff owned Trailhead Cycles, he would wait to order stuff until he had enough to get free shipping. You would give him $100 to order something, he would tell you it's ordered, then 2 weeks later tell you it's on it's way KNOWING he didn't order it until 2 days ago when someone else wanted something, too.

Cracked me up every time. He would straight lie to your face! it was awesome (when it wasn't me).

 

[Da Peach]

Like the guy last summer who kept telling me that it was "out of his hands" when my wheel was out to be re-built for 6 weeks. Right.

 

[OGRipper]

You guys can beat this dead horse all you want. Most LBS's don't exist for the typical person on Ridemonkey, principally because since about 1985 anyone who knows what they're doing can get stuff cheaper (and often faster) by doing mail order or, more recently, an online purchase.

Most LBS's survive because of parents buying bikes for kids, new riders getting into it, and repairs. Sure there are some boutique shops that do lots of high-end stuff but they are the exception. And high-end customers are usually looking for a deal anyway, making an already slim profit margin even slimmer.

The guys who own my LBS are very good friends of mine. They don't bother charging me full retail even though I'm often happy to pay to help them out. It's great having a good shop with cool people to send my newbie friends too, it's great being able to grab tubes, brake pads, and other last minute stuff, and it's great to show up with a 12-pack on a Friday night and shoot the crap about bikes after hours. Hate all you want but the LBS is, and hopefully always will be, a big part of the cycling community for me.

 

[BurlyShirley]

Agreed. Unfortunately...the bike industry is pretty awful. I have a ton of distributor ball drops. I am only always successful with QBP. They often cost more, but are good at what they do.

Do you think that's the case because bicycling is usually thought of as more of a hobby, rather than as something serious? So it's "no big deal" when stuff doesn't run smoothly?
I just can't imagine these types of consistent lapses being the norm in more serious industries. I hope that as cycling gets more popular and people begin to rely on them more in the future, we'll see some more competence.
Or are you just saying it's impossible for a business to carry a reasonable amount of stuff? Cause I don't think I buy that.
I mean, I can go to autozone and say I need an alternator for a 1994 Ford Ranger, and unless someone just bought a couple, it will be in my hand in a few minutes. I could also do the same thing with my last 2 jeeps, and every other car I've owned. And vehicles have many more parts, with many more standards, which are larger and cost more, and they somehow manage to have the stuff on hand.
I understand there are exceptions of course, you aren't going to get replacement Lamoborghini seats there. But as a bicycle shop, you should at the very minimum have a full stock of replacement and upgrade parts for the line of bicycles you carry.
Well, they don't have to... I mean obviously they are staying in business without doing this, but if they want to satisfy customers it seems like a pretty reasonable thing to do.

Also, as for me not working in a bike shop any longer. There's just not enough money for one thing. Plus it gets real old putting together POS Haro BMXs and $300 MTBs because that's basically all people buy. That or they come in and ask you to figure up the price for a dozen different high-end components and then say "thanks" and dont buy anything, because costs are exorbitant, but only after you spent half an hour totaling the stuff up. The job's not for me.

 

[Westy]

Conversation at my local LBS last week.

Me: I need two XT middle chainrings.
Owner: what is the M-number.
Me: I don't know, 4-bolt middle chainring. I've been using the same ones on 3 different XT cranks over the past 8 years.
Owner: I need to know the M-number.
Me: I don't know it, howabout a Raceface or Blackspire middle ring, truvative maybe?
Owner: I need to know the part number.
Me: How about you show me all your middle rings and I'll pick one?
Owner: I don't have any, I need the part number so I can order one for you.
Me: Oh, OK. Let me drive home and write down the part number.

I LOL'd on my way out, dropped $5 into the MS150 donation box and went home and ordered online.

 

[MMike]

Do you think that's the case because bicycling is usually thought of as more of a hobby, rather than as something serious? So it's "no big deal" when stuff doesn't run smoothly?
I just can't imagine these types of consistent lapses being the norm in more serious industries. I hope that as cycling gets more popular and people begin to rely on them more in the future, we'll see some more competence.
Or are you just saying it's impossible for a business to carry a reasonable amount of stuff? Cause I don't think I buy that.
I mean, I can go to autozone and say I need an alternator for a 1994 Ford Ranger, and unless someone just bought a couple, it will be in my hand in a few minutes. I could also do the same thing with my last 2 jeeps, and every other car I've owned. And vehicles have many more parts, with many more standards, which are larger and cost more, and they somehow manage to have the stuff on hand.
I understand there are exceptions of course, you aren't going to get replacement Lamoborghini seats there. But as a bicycle shop, you should at the very minimum have a full stock of replacement and upgrade parts for the line of bicycles you carry.
Well, they don't have to... I mean obviously they are staying in business without doing this, but if they want to satisfy customers it seems like a pretty reasonable thing to do.

Also, as for me not working in a bike shop any longer. There's just not enough money for one thing. Plus it gets real old putting together POS Haro BMXs and $300 MTBs because that's basically all people buy. That or they come in and ask you to figure up the price for a dozen different high-end components and then say "thanks" and dont buy anything, because costs are exorbitant, but only after you spent half an hour totaling the stuff up. The job's not for me.

Bike shops just have stupendously low standards. What passes for "good" by LBS standards, would have most people storming out of any other business.

 

[BurlyShirley]

It's really the simple **** that kills me.
The local guys had to order hydraulic brake line when I needed some.
They sell MTBs with the same hydraulic brakes.

 

[sanjuro]

We have one local shop that does a good job stocking just about everything you might need. Performance Bike.

Trust me, the brick-n-mortar ones I visited, you might be able to steal any bike fairly easily, but they don't have that much in terms of the nitty-gritty parts.

 

[sanjuro]

Do you think that's the case because bicycling is usually thought of as more of a hobby, rather than as something serious? So it's "no big deal" when stuff doesn't run smoothly?
I just can't imagine these types of consistent lapses being the norm in more serious industries. I hope that as cycling gets more popular and people begin to rely on them more in the future, we'll see some more competence.
Or are you just saying it's impossible for a business to carry a reasonable amount of stuff? Cause I don't think I buy that.
I mean, I can go to autozone and say I need an alternator for a 1994 Ford Ranger, and unless someone just bought a couple, it will be in my hand in a few minutes. I could also do the same thing with my last 2 jeeps, and every other car I've owned. And vehicles have many more parts, with many more standards, which are larger and cost more, and they somehow manage to have the stuff on hand.
I understand there are exceptions of course, you aren't going to get replacement Lamoborghini seats there. But as a bicycle shop, you should at the very minimum have a full stock of replacement and upgrade parts for the line of bicycles you carry.
Well, they don't have to... I mean obviously they are staying in business without doing this, but if they want to satisfy customers it seems like a pretty reasonable thing to do.

Also, as for me not working in a bike shop any longer. There's just not enough money for one thing. Plus it gets real old putting together POS Haro BMXs and $300 MTBs because that's basically all people buy. That or they come in and ask you to figure up the price for a dozen different high-end components and then say "thanks" and dont buy anything, because costs are exorbitant, but only after you spent half an hour totaling the stuff up. The job's not for me.

Your auto parts store has a computer and hundreds of manuals to cross-reference parts and vehicles, and obviously almost every family has a car, not everyone rides bikes.

 

[jimmydean]

The guys who own my LBS are very good friends of mine. They don't bother charging me full retail even though I'm often happy to pay to help them out. It's great having a good shop with cool people to send my newbie friends too, it's great being able to grab tubes, brake pads, and other last minute stuff, and it's great to show up with a 12-pack on a Friday night and shoot the crap about bikes after hours. Hate all you want but the LBS is, and hopefully always will be, a big part of the cycling community for me.

I used to have that until the owner tried to go for the big score and got his ass handed to him and he closed up shop. All the other shops around here suck ass and the only one that doesn't is a half hour away in Salem.

I didn't mind having Bernie order me crap and if I knew he couldn't get it, I would get it online. Now that I'm older and my time is worth more, I don't do a lot of my own wrenching because I have motorcycles for that. But it sucks now not having a shop I feel I trust with the bike I ride.

 

[sanjuro]

You guys can beat this dead horse all you want. Most LBS's don't exist for the typical person on Ridemonkey, principally because since about 1985 anyone who knows what they're doing can get stuff cheaper (and often faster) by doing mail order or, more recently, an online purchase.

Most LBS's survive because of parents buying bikes for kids, new riders getting into it, and repairs. Sure there are some boutique shops that do lots of high-end stuff but they are the exception. And high-end customers are usually looking for a deal anyway, making an already slim profit margin even slimmer.

The guys who own my LBS are very good friends of mine. They don't bother charging me full retail even though I'm often happy to pay to help them out. It's great having a good shop with cool people to send my newbie friends too, it's great being able to grab tubes, brake pads, and other last minute stuff, and it's great to show up with a 12-pack on a Friday night and shoot the crap about bikes after hours. Hate all you want but the LBS is, and hopefully always will be, a big part of the cycling community for me.

Ultimately, the problem with most shops is the limitations of the owner. If he is a poor mechanic, not knowledgeable and unwilling to learn, doesn't ride, unfriendly, or just a bad businessman; the shop will reflect these failures.

The shop I like to visit, Passion Trail Bikes, the owner is none of these things, and his shop is one of the best run I have ever visited.

I go there for things like brake pads, spokes, even clothing. If I was going to buy a bike for retail because I needed fitting and a good build, this would be the only shop I would go to.

 

[Kanye West]

LBS are almost like charity cases. You pretty much do get guilt-tripped or extorted into supporting them on the grounds of "staying local" and feel like you got screwed somehow every time you do. Crap attitude, high prices, long wait times, flakeyness, inability to service bikes properly....so where's the upside?

I've always loved the line:

"Do you have X part?" (where X part is something that should be commonly available, not even a high end boutique bike part)

"No...but we can order it!"

"Oh gee, I never thought of doing THAT myself instead of driving down here!"

The occasional time it ends up being cheaper to order it through the LBS, it ends up taking 2-3x longer than they quote me, every time, every shop.

 

[Westy]

Trust me, the brick-n-mortar ones I visited, you might be able to steal any bike fairly easily, but they don't have that much in terms of the nitty-gritty parts.

'Round here they are the only shop that stock any MTB bike components and they have a reasonable selection. Other shops cary bikes and tubes, period.

 

[vtjim]

It's not just high end specialty parts that are often unavailable though. I went to two local shops last month looking for a BB. And both times I had to describe what I needed, in detail. The Hollowtech II BB is a pretty standard part for decent bikes.

Neither of them had it of course. One shop said, "Someone just bought the last one in stock the other day. I can order it for you though." Well why didn't you order it a couple days ago when the last one sold, or even when you saw you only had one in stock?

Never mind, I'll just buy online.

 

[OGRipper]

I didn't mind having Bernie order me crap and if I knew he couldn't get it, I would get it online. Now that I'm older and my time is worth more, I don't do a lot of my own wrenching because I have motorcycles for that. But it sucks now not having a shop I feel I trust with the bike I ride.

Yeah. I was a wrench for many years and there are very few people I trust to work on my bikes, and I think that is true of a lot of people here. That's another reason I say the LBS does not exist for most monkies.

 

[boogenman]

Did you see that article in brain about the NYC shop that has seen the AVERAGE BIKE SALE drop from $10k to $7,500? ****!

We're kind of lucky...J&B and HJ are a day away from us, and they've got most things...although their prices are higher.

Same here! Although I am no longer working in the shop I spend a lot of time there

A order placed by 4:00pm comes in at 1:00pm the next day from J&B, that is f ucking fast!

Not many people would even give us a chance to earn thier business, they would just order it and wait anyways.

What makes me laugh is that if people would give the LBS a shot and the LBS was able to pricematch more people would shop there and more high end oddball parts would be stocked.

Why should a shop stock Elixir R's? What if you want Elixir CR's 185f 160r and the shop has a set of strokers 160 F&R? I don't know about you but I wouldn't buy the strokers if they were below cost. Now you are seeing that a shop will basically have to carry the same inventory as QBP or BTI less the volume of each part, now that is stupid even if you are rich

 

[boogenman]

I came to the realization long ago that LBS's are really only good for two things. Predatory extortion of the mechanically disinclined, and predatory extortion of those they've guilted into the concept of "buying local".

I came to the realization in my early years in the cycling biz that there is an ass for every seat

 

[vtjim]

Oh and another thing; though this goes to the type of person running the shop. When I worked in a shop the owner would get an order from a customer, not place the order for two weeks, tell the customer it was back ordered, then laugh when he got off the phone with the customer about how he forgot to actually place the order.

Too many shops are like that. However as has been said most bike shops cater to people who buy bikes but don't ride them, buy bikes for their kids etc etc. So there's a case for getting specialty parts online. For every 10 LBS' I walk in to usually one will impress me.

 

[boogenman]

Imagine a world in which all business were as woefully unprepared as bike shops to serve their clientel.

"Hi I need suit for a job interview tomorrow"

"Well, we have this blue polyester liesure suit from 1974 in stock. Only $450 too."

"I was looking for something a little more modern"

"We can order it, will take about a week"

"Yeah but the interview is tomorrow, and I can order it myself"

"Oh sure, go ahead and support the corporations, conformist sheeple"

Your suit analogy is pretty sh itty since you would want that high priced suit to be custom tailored to your body and your liking, something the online guys can not do. Oh just like the bike shop does for customers that buy parts through them.

 

[nelsonjm]

What I never got is why more local bike shops don't sell online. It fixes the problem of not being able to move parts and also expands your customer base to make the business more stable.

Any lbs employees/owners care to comment on this?

 

[BurlyShirley]

Your suit analogy is pretty sh itty since you would want that high priced suit to be custom tailored to your body and your liking, something the online guys can not do.

Exactly my point. Most businesses are competent enough to have what their customers need on-hand. You aren't forced to resort to no-service online BS when you deal with a legitimate business.

The fact that LBS's are be so bad that they're consistently losing business to retailers who offer no service at all should tell you something.

 

[sanjuro]

Same here! Although I am no longer working in the shop I spend a lot of time there

A order placed by 4:00pm comes in at 1:00pm the next day from J&B, that is f ucking fast!

You know J&B has several warehouses, including one in Schenectady?

How about this, ask for a Mavic 717 rim, which comes from the main warehouse in Florida. And ask for it to arrive tomorrow.

See how that flies.

 

[-dustin]

This thread is rather annoying based on the amount naive BS people are posting.

We sell online, but online sales are rather small. I think FRS Concentrate is our biggest seller on the web.

 

[golgiaparatus]

I know. Then you expected an online company that doesn't know you to treat you like a shop would. I know you're a super model and all, but that's just asking too much.

Oh you were talking about the seat post thing... I dunno if I was asking too much. I wanted them to stand by their product. Local, online, whatever... a company should stand by the products they sell.

I found out later that same week that not a single shop in town stocks a 31.6 post. So I ended up buying one online anyway.