Crap, I'm pretty sure those bullet points are straight from a training course or video on "Paradigm Shifts" that one of the principles at my company used to teach back in the day.
LBS can never guilt trip me again.
- Thread starter golgiaparatus
- Start date
I guess in your world they pull wheels off of cars on lots to make you happy and pull them down off the blocks when a replacement arrives.
Congratulations...you are the smartest CUSTOMER ever. You'll note all caps because it is just what it is...you are the customer. You clearly show you don't know the ins and outs of the LBS. Fail.
Agreed. But say your on a group ride later with the owner of that McDonalds and he see's that you have a lobster & steak bolted to your bike...
McD's GUY: I see you have a new steak & lobster... looks stiff and light. Where'd you get it?
YOU: Got it online
McD's GUY: Fuk those online lobster vendors, they are driving hard working
McDonalds vendors out of business. WHy didnt you come buy and get the Steak and Lobster from us.
YOU: You guys don't stock it.
McD's GUY: We could have ordered it for you.
Didn't someone once say that the customer is always right?I guess in your world they pull wheels off of cars on lots to make you happy and pull them down off the blocks when a replacement arrives.
Congratulations...you are the smartest CUSTOMER ever. You'll note all caps because it is just what it is...you are the customer. You clearly show you don't know the ins and outs of the LBS. Fail.
And the jeep dealer in Seattle when I got my XJ gave me wheels of another vehicle to make the sale.....
Such disdain for those annoying ignorant customers who just have NO appreciation for just how HARD life is for the poor oppressed bike shop person. You suffer from LBS Fail.
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You ever purchase a car before? One of my friends bought a Ford F150 3 years. The dealership didn't have exactly what he wanted, but truth be told, yes they did actually swap wheels with another car....I guess in your world they pull wheels off of cars on lots to make you happy and pull them down off the blocks when a replacement arrives.
Congratulations...you are the smartest CUSTOMER ever. You'll note all caps because it is just what it is...you are the customer. You clearly show you don't know the ins and outs of the LBS. Fail.
Why is it that so many (note not all) bike shop owners, employees, and customers expect such a level of mediocrity???
And yes, I do know a thing or two about LBS's. I may not have ran one nor did I ever have any aspirations too, but I did work at them for 4 years to realize why many of them FAIL.
I guess in your world they pull wheels off of cars on lots to make you happy and pull them down off the blocks when a replacement arrives.
Congratulations...you are the smartest CUSTOMER ever. You'll note all caps because it is just what it is...you are the customer. You clearly show you don't know the ins and outs of the LBS. Fail.
Good car dealers WILL do that. And the fact that a good dealer will take 45 minutes to put a 3000lb car on a hydro lift, pull 20 bolts with an airgun, remove tires with a big ass machine, rebalance wheels, etc, etc, to please a customer... and you wont take 5 min to do the same a 20lb bike with quick release wheels and tires that can be mounted by hand makes your argument kind of bogus.
It's all about CUSTOMER service... it's something many businesses today see no value in. It's the business that depends on the customer, not the other way around. Without the CUSTOMER... you have no business. And you don't have to know the ins and outs of the Bike biz to know how important it is that the customer walks out of your shop with a smile... you just have to know the basics of how to run good business in general.
This is a perfect example of why our society is failing. It's all about me, me, me and what someone else can and, what I think should, do for me.
You are demanding that a shop owner remove a part from a bike to sell to you. This means he has to take the bike out of inventory, even temporarily, and potentially miss an opportunity to sell it. It's selfish for you to ask and stupid for the owner to do it.
We are doomed as a country if we continue living in the hierarchy of me. If more people took a moment to think about others and and less about themselves, we as whole would be a lot better off.
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Guys..... There will ALWAYS be a bitch about the LBS. There will always be a Bitch about the local auto partshouse, there will always be a biotch about every ****ing business out there.
Fact, everyone cant stock everything
Fact, to make money, you stock what sells.
Fact, complaining online that a shop didnt have the part you wanted, that they dont normally stock just makes you look like even more of an ass.
Fact, Downhill parts are not stocked at most bike shops, they are expensive to keep on hand, and they do not move fast.
Ok all that said, if ANY of the business I listed are worth a ****, they can order thepart you need within a day or two. I got yelled at yesterady at the bike shop by a customer, I was called a peice of **** loser that didnt know what I was talking about when I told him I didnt have the Pivot pin for a Stroker trail brake lever in stock. Told him I could have it first thing in the morning, that I had to order it......Wasnt goodenough, he told me he could just order it hisself, why the hell dont you stock what people need....I told him, camly, Dude, not everyone has the exact same brakes, I cant stock the most uncommon parts for everything and stay in business, Now my distributer has it, I will have it in my hands tommorrow at ten, its all yours, Its free, Hayes is covering this....Still not good enough. I ended up having to ask him to leave ebcause there is just no way I can **** out a part that I dont have in my Fuggin hand
I love the auto parts analogy.....its also total and complete ****.
Sorry, My primary job is auto repair, 8/10 cars I work on the parts end up special order, I keep about 400 sets of brake pads in stock, most every belt there is, filters of all kinds.
But guess what, some asshole has to come up with something fuggin different part for every Fuggin year of car of every fuggin model....Ok not every year and model, but you get my point.....Bikes are the same way. Not everyone will stock every part.
At teh auto shop<sorry not listing the names of the auto shop I work at, not a sales pitch>I use every supplier I can to get parts as fast as possible. Star, Kragen, Autozone, HoQ, Jobber, Worldpac, everyone.
At teh bike shop, Holy crap I do the same thing. Every supplier I can, SbS, QBP, JnB, BTI.... we have accounts with most all of them.
You guys have to realize, shops dont carry every part out there, if your from an area that is Mostly roadie area...why would you think teh shops would keep a set of ANY Hydro brakes in stock??
Just the same as why would you expect the Bike shop at the bottom of the Lift assited park to have a full DA group ready for sale?
EDIT... Loco, your right on withmost yuour points, but the wheel swap at car dealerships is actually very common, especially in this economy, they will do what they must to get the sale.
ABout the Online part, three times a year we hire two kids to come in, catalog, photo, list and describe old inventory for Ebay. Any more than that for Online is just too much work, and too much time that needs to be dedicated to customers that are inside the shop. You really need to pick one or the other to make good profit.
Double edit........If you prefer to order online/mail order.... More power to you. YOu want to order from me.....great......I will install your parts eitehr way, install prices are the same.
One last part....Anyone who thinks the labor side of a Bike shop makes alot of money is sadly mistaken. Its seriously all about accessories where the money is.
Fact, everyone cant stock everything
Fact, to make money, you stock what sells.
Fact, complaining online that a shop didnt have the part you wanted, that they dont normally stock just makes you look like even more of an ass.
Fact, Downhill parts are not stocked at most bike shops, they are expensive to keep on hand, and they do not move fast.
Ok all that said, if ANY of the business I listed are worth a ****, they can order thepart you need within a day or two. I got yelled at yesterady at the bike shop by a customer, I was called a peice of **** loser that didnt know what I was talking about when I told him I didnt have the Pivot pin for a Stroker trail brake lever in stock. Told him I could have it first thing in the morning, that I had to order it......Wasnt goodenough, he told me he could just order it hisself, why the hell dont you stock what people need....I told him, camly, Dude, not everyone has the exact same brakes, I cant stock the most uncommon parts for everything and stay in business, Now my distributer has it, I will have it in my hands tommorrow at ten, its all yours, Its free, Hayes is covering this....Still not good enough. I ended up having to ask him to leave ebcause there is just no way I can **** out a part that I dont have in my Fuggin hand
I love the auto parts analogy.....its also total and complete ****.
Sorry, My primary job is auto repair, 8/10 cars I work on the parts end up special order, I keep about 400 sets of brake pads in stock, most every belt there is, filters of all kinds.
But guess what, some asshole has to come up with something fuggin different part for every Fuggin year of car of every fuggin model....Ok not every year and model, but you get my point.....Bikes are the same way. Not everyone will stock every part.
At teh auto shop<sorry not listing the names of the auto shop I work at, not a sales pitch>I use every supplier I can to get parts as fast as possible. Star, Kragen, Autozone, HoQ, Jobber, Worldpac, everyone.
At teh bike shop, Holy crap I do the same thing. Every supplier I can, SbS, QBP, JnB, BTI.... we have accounts with most all of them.
You guys have to realize, shops dont carry every part out there, if your from an area that is Mostly roadie area...why would you think teh shops would keep a set of ANY Hydro brakes in stock??
Just the same as why would you expect the Bike shop at the bottom of the Lift assited park to have a full DA group ready for sale?
EDIT... Loco, your right on withmost yuour points, but the wheel swap at car dealerships is actually very common, especially in this economy, they will do what they must to get the sale.
ABout the Online part, three times a year we hire two kids to come in, catalog, photo, list and describe old inventory for Ebay. Any more than that for Online is just too much work, and too much time that needs to be dedicated to customers that are inside the shop. You really need to pick one or the other to make good profit.
Double edit........If you prefer to order online/mail order.... More power to you. YOu want to order from me.....great......I will install your parts eitehr way, install prices are the same.
One last part....Anyone who thinks the labor side of a Bike shop makes alot of money is sadly mistaken. Its seriously all about accessories where the money is.
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I saved $750.00 on my Subaru by swapping fancy wheels for steels wheels - I probably wouldn't have known but the dealer was honest - they'd already swapped the wheels for another customer. If this wouldn't work for me they had a few options I could get from some other new cars on the lot. I decided to stop the madness and save the cash.I guess in your world they pull wheels off of cars on lots to make you happy and pull them down off the blocks when a replacement arrives.
Yea, I get so bitter when a customer calls up and requires that our company comes in to tweek a $120,000 welding fixture/machine retrofit that we designed for them even though it was through no fault of their own because of their inability to provide us was the proper specs or to follow up with us and have competent engineers working with our team during the design process. But really, we do get bitter, but we suck it up, and travel to their site for an entire week, every day going through their 45 min. clean room process just to get to the machine we have to work on to get the job done. Even if it is something that's beyond the stated deliverable's of the PO.
Why do we do this, not because they are ME ME ME!!! but because we want our business to be successful and we don't want to burn any bridges.
We aren't doomed as a country because of a hierarchy of "me". That has nothing to do with this. And is society really failing? I'm pretty happy with where social change has brought us. Then again maybe the times of the Inquisition were a heck of alot better.
But no, you're right. Who am I? To expect that I can walk into an LBS entertaining the prospect of hoping to use my hard earned money to buy a component, that they actually have on hand, but gasp, it is on a $3000 bike. ME ME ME right? Maybe my company should start sending $10K request to clients to cover the cost of unexpected problems that eat up alot of engineering and design time? Or better yet, tell them to F-off, but if they would like they could meet with us, discuss the problem, write up another quote for work, process another PO, and then we'll get right on with fixing the problem...
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A happy customer will tell 1 freind about his experience.
An unhappy customer will tell 10 people about his expereince.
An unhappy customer will tell 10 people about his expereince.
I absolutely couldn't disagree more. Customer service all over the world right now is a freakin' joke. I'm on a mission to change that starting with my own business. It doesn't matter if the hypothetical bike shop has to take a bike out of inventory - he does it because that's what the customer wants. And customers make the world go round. So guess where that customer is going to go next time they need something bike related? People pay a premium for great service - my entire business model is predicated upon that idea.
All but one of my LBS's have serious attitude and customer service issues. I literally drive past 3 shops to go to the one shop that treats me like a customer. I can't for the life of me figure out why a company in such as competitive industry - and a hugely competitive market - would treat potential new customers like total sh1t.
So IMO, customers have every single right to have a "me, me, me" attitude because they are the ones that are giving their money to your business. They are the ones that are keeping your lights on and helping you make your payroll. Forget about everything else - the customer always comes first. I understand extreme examples of course but if you can't help them, the best idea is to very politely decline and recommend them to someone who can.
So you are saying a car dealer would be willing to take a car off the showroom floor, render it unsellable, just to keep a purchaser of 4 wheels happy?
FYI, I bought a new car about 10 years ago. I only stepped inside the dealership once. Maybe I should call them up and ask if they remember me.
I've taken parts of new bikes and sold to customers.
Simple things like rear derailleurs are no problem.
One time someone had sold a suspension seatpost of a $1000 hardtail, and I was accused of bait-n-switch by customer because I didn't realize the rigid post was a switcheroo.
Other times, components are different colors, different logos, and might be out of stock at the distributor.
Simple things like rear derailleurs are no problem.
One time someone had sold a suspension seatpost of a $1000 hardtail, and I was accused of bait-n-switch by customer because I didn't realize the rigid post was a switcheroo.
Other times, components are different colors, different logos, and might be out of stock at the distributor.
Perhaps you missed my post edit before quoting. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt.
Unless I'm mistaken you are producing a product that requires ancillary services. Yes ?
The society I was referring to is the United States, so the Inquisition is irrelevant.
So, you do not think it selfish that you expect an LBS to remove a part from a bike to sell to you and thus rendering the bike temporarily unsell-able ? From a retail standpoint it does not make sense to pull a $3000 bike off the floor to make $20 off of a coil. You are asking a business to fulfill your needs at a loss to them.
That is my whole point and it is too bad you don't see it.
But...but...I thought the LBS could order a part and get it super fast, no? So why would it be a problem?
The owner knows full well how long bikes stay on the floor and which ones are hot. It would be unreasonable to expect the shop to pull a part off a bike that is in and out within a week. If it's been sitting there for a month or more, chances are it will continue to do so.
Money does not care where it comes from. In sales you do what you have to do to earn it.
The businesses I have worked for REMAIN in business because of our willingness to do whatever it takes to make sure our customers are 100% satisfied with our work or products or services. If they are not, our job is not done, and we are ONLY hurting future business.
Again, if the customer is not satisfied, your job is not done, and you are ONLY hurting future business.
Bitter LBS employees/owners can cry foul and pass the blame all they want, but at the end of the day they are not doing their job right if customers come to the store looking to spend money and leave to do business elsewhere. That customer will CONTINUE to do business elsewhere, and you bet your ass that other potential customers that you would never see will do business elsewhere as a result. Successful business with lots of repeat customers and a rapidly growing client base realize and embrace this.
Actually I agree that customer service is a joke for the most part and there is no excuse for being rude to a potential customer. But there are some unreasonable requests made by some.
Taking parts off a bike is generally a no no, you can blame trek and Speccy for that. They are generally anal about not doing that. There was a shop back east that was doing this with KHS bikes, Buy the bikes, strip them down, and sell them peice by peice......They end up making a ton more money out of the parts. Here is the thing, the bikes are built up with a component package that has a special price, giving the complete bike more favor over a full uprgade of a bike, or build of a bike. The other part to remember is, alot of the OEM parts on a bike may be a special color, or may have a special emblem, or even a costom setting...IE 6 in travel 66.....or gold colored lowers, or whatever.......
Its one thing to swap a part off a bike for warranty parts.....Hell we have a trance in the back that we sacrificed totally to that pupose, but selling the parts straight up is just a hassle, it totally would depend on the part, and who the customer is.
Its one thing to swap a part off a bike for warranty parts.....Hell we have a trance in the back that we sacrificed totally to that pupose, but selling the parts straight up is just a hassle, it totally would depend on the part, and who the customer is.
KHS basically did that themselves for their own wholesale inventory.
Well according to the PO, the deliverables specified, the approvals that were given by our clients, and our verifications based upon the specs, we give our clients exactly what was agreed upon. Clearly if we make mistakes, we rectify the problem, but often time our STUPID customers are to blame but we suck it up to make sure that they are 100% satisfied.
Racism, suffrage?
My point is that exotic parts and bikes don't get turned around in 2 days at MOST shops. I've tried explaining that I'm not indicting every shop of being evil or incompetent. In my experience in dealing with shops throughout MA, I've encountered many that may not stock exotic parts, yet they have a good amount of high end bikes that will take 2~3 months to sell. And no, I'm not implying that shops dissect every part off a bike to turn a greater profit and I hope that isn't what you think. Hacktastic pretty much sums it up best.
I'm not saying that all bike shops eat your children and punch your dog. It just befuddles me that shops are so willing to let easy money walk away when they could yank a part off a bike and replace it in days. I guess we'll agree to disagree
I ask as I did earlier, who eats this labor??? Last I checked, it's not free to strip parts and then to replace them. Arguably, by labor rates, it should be a minimum of $35 - $50 to pull disc brakes and then re-install them. Other people's services then get neglected. It's not that I'm being an ass to a customer by not pulling them, but labor is not free. Hose lengths vary, as do other conditions. It's never as easy as just pulling it. I pull a derailleur, the chain has to be broken. Then it must be kept up with. A bike is off of the floor and in storage, where it could be damaged. The chain is arguably not as strong as it was when it was first pinned. Consumables and labor are not things that should be absorbed. I'm all for making customers, but if you went to the taco stand and wanted a sh*t taco to be happy, they wouldn't do it. Not because you don't deserve to eat sh*t, but because they don't serve sh*t tacos. They may give you a tortilla so you can wipe your own ass and eat it, but they won't serve it to you. Until a customer has known every aspect of every business, it is impossible for them to be right. I'm sick of everyone saying because they didn't get what they wanted the provider of service was crappy. People are stupid when they expect that. The world is not some big rock candy mountain where you just want it and it happens.I'm not saying that all bike shops eat your children and punch your dog. It just befuddles me that shops are so willing to let easy money walk away when they could yank a part off a bike and replace it in days. I guess we'll agree to disagree
You did know that "I Dream of Jeannie" was fictitious, right???
When expectations are unrealistic, they should be met as such.
When expectations are unrealistic, they should be met as such.
If you think swapping parts from one bike to another is an unrealistic expectation, I would love to see you in a real technology-oriented, consumer based environment.
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Really??? Apparently you would expect potato salad at a Chinese restaurant too. Are you sanjuro???If you think swapping parts from one bike to another is an unrealistic expectation, I would love to see you in a real technology-oriented, consumer based environment.
If you want parts swapped, build a bike. You don't order the f*#king things by picking parts kits with Trek or Giant, or anyone. I understand making people happy, and there are exceptions to be made, but people's desires in this thread are straight up retarded. BTW - when I worked for McLane (one of the largest grocery suppliers in the country) and someone ordered Gatorade, they got the bottles we sold. We didn't mix flavors or change sizes. I tried to reprogram the gigantic mainframe to make these changes, but they were just not technology oriented or consumer based enough to let it happen.
I'm glad I just have normal customers and not a bunch of pretentious know it alls at my shop.
Hoses are too short from OEM brake and customer doesn't realize this until he's home because his bike has stupid routing. Now he has to drive back to the shop and is angry that you didn't mention this.
Guess who gets to eat the cost of new hoses and labor for install of hoses and brakes on customer's bike....we do. Yea!
I had to pull this bull**** while the customer waited. But god damn, he just had to have his Juicy 5s on a Wednesday night 10mins before closing.
Here, hold my drink as I bend over.
I think bike parts being available at a bike shop is more expected than potato salad at a Chinese restaurant.
In my company/industry, it isn't uncommon to spend hundreds of hours on design work and manufacturing, as well as $XX,XXX dollars on materials outside of the original scope of the PO in order to keep a customer satisfied. We would like them to come back, ya know? Sure, we may lose $20-30k here, but if we keep that customer happy, when it comes time to order $50 million worth of equipment, we'll be on the top of the list of who they go to.
You are comparing apples to oranges here. If there is not a promise of their return, I can assure you that someone in your company is not willing to lose $10. I ran customer service for a $75 million company too. We were not in the practice of losing money and schools were our end users. Even school districts are more realistic than what people expect here on ridemonkey.
There is NEVER a promise of return.....it's always a risk. But, if you want to succeed it's a risk you need to (sometimes) take.
Besides........are you even losing money? If anything, I bet you would be making more money.
Seriously....what other industries have you worked in? Everyone works with an element of risk....Risk mitigation is a huge part of business. We've developed entire products based on someone saying ohhhh yeah....make one of those and I'll buy a bazillion of them, only to have them back out once we were done. Admittedly, that risk was not handled very well. But it was a business decision to proceed at-risk. You win some, you lose some.
And for the record, I have no issue with a shop not actually stocking some specialty part. I only take issue with a shop getting all butt-hurt if you go off and buy it on your own.
Like I said earlier, for the actual procurement of parts, the internet has pretty much rendered the LBS useless. The smart LBS would realize this and change their business model as required to compensate, and find a way to thrive BECAUSE of the new reality....not just despite it.
Wow...just wowI ask as I did earlier, who eats this labor??? Last I checked, it's not free to strip parts and then to replace them. Arguably, by labor rates, it should be a minimum of $35 - $50 to pull disc brakes and then re-install them. Other people's services then get neglected. It's not that I'm being an ass to a customer by not pulling them, but labor is not free. Hose lengths vary, as do other conditions. It's never as easy as just pulling it. I pull a derailleur, the chain has to be broken. Then it must be kept up with. A bike is off of the floor and in storage, where it could be damaged. The chain is arguably not as strong as it was when it was first pinned. Consumables and labor are not things that should be absorbed. I'm all for making customers, but if you went to the taco stand and wanted a sh*t taco to be happy, they wouldn't do it. Not because you don't deserve to eat sh*t, but because they don't serve sh*t tacos. They may give you a tortilla so you can wipe your own ass and eat it, but they won't serve it to you. Until a customer has known every aspect of every business, it is impossible for them to be right. I'm sick of everyone saying because they didn't get what they wanted the provider of service was crappy. People are stupid when they expect that. The world is not some big rock candy mountain where you just want it and it happens.
You did know that "I Dream of Jeannie" was fictitious, right???
When expectations are unrealistic, they should be met as such.
Awesome.
This is a nice study for you. Here you are complaining about what ridemonkey users want out of a bike shop... ridemonley is a perfect little slice of bike shop customers from all over the country.
I work for a very successful bank and they are successful because they listen to what people want and supply it... I guarantee you that if there was a bank forum like this and a thread popped up about general bank customer service my superiors would be taking freaking notes, not complaining about how unreasonable the consumers are.
Man, Loco, I totally know how you feel. I would hate customers, too if I had to work with them every day.
Wow...I suck because a methodology that makes money for the retailer is not perfect for the customers that are smarter than the rest of the world.
My point is...you can make exceptions to satisfy people, but it's stupid to think that everyone is right from a consumer standpoint and it makes no sense for a business to do it when that's the case.
My point is...you can make exceptions to satisfy people, but it's stupid to think that everyone is right from a consumer standpoint and it makes no sense for a business to do it when that's the case.
My customers are the only reason I do what I do.
You mean you take pleasure and and pride in making them miserable?
(and I think you have a mistake in your sig)
You're an idiot.
You apparently don't understand very basic concepts that seem pretty obvious to a large number of us hereYou're an idiot.
And you miss the ones that are obvious to another large number.
Poor loco....
Discovery Channel should get rid of "Deadliest Catch" and replace it with a show about the perils and sheer impossibilities of working in a Texas Bicycle shop....that's where the REAL action is.....
"Can you be-LIEVE this guy? He wants a an ODI locking collar!! I mean...HELLO?"