Bingo. Government, media.
Learn how to drive idiots
- Thread starter golgiaparatus
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Want to hear the scary part about all this......... Talking about throttle positon, ocmputer contrlls ETC.... Your throttle plate position doesnt match your pedal position anymore with these new electronics...... IE, you can be going 70 down the freeway, with your foot barely touching the pedal, yet the throttle plate will probably be wide open, with power being controlled by fuel pressure, fuel timing, and spark timing. Now mix that into all of it and see what all could go wrong!!!
Not a govt push, but I have no doubt that ford gm, and chrysler are all three helping to push the negative images towards toyota right now
I remember the firestone/ford problem well. At first it was amazed that such a big manf could release Sooooo many faulty products. Then I saw this recall on there tires, I saw goodyear jump on it and offer an amazing stretch... "we will take your firestone tires, and give you goodyears in plac eof them...." So all teh faulty tires were taken off the road.... Six months or so go by, and BLAM Massive independant testing was done, only to find out IT HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH THE TIRES!!!!!.. Ford was installing underrated tires at WAY too low of a pressure...... Imagine that, under rated tires that are under inflated blowing out. Way to go ford for shifting the blame and not cleaning up the mess.
Not that I am a brigdestone firestone fan, but I gotta give credit were its due, and as a company they took the blame, handled the problem, and decided who was truly at fault later.
P.S.... the size that was stock on those explorers should have been run at 34 PSI to support the weight of the vehicle, Ford was running them at 26 to get a better ride, effectivly overloading the tire with just the vehicle alone.
Why don't you just fling the door open, throw yourself from the car and let Jesus save you?
But you'd best have a jesus fish on the back first I guess.....
But you'd best have a jesus fish on the back first I guess.....
Yeah IH8Rice didn't fully get that recall situation either -
http://www.ridemonkey.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3387381&postcount=35
yeah I am not a software engineer and don't profess to know all the details, but you are correct, some of my buddies are software engineers and have explained to me that it's not quite like a stuck throttle on a 75 impala where you just shut it off and coast to a stop or toss it in nuetral.
of course they are, they are hurting and this is their chance to jump on some irritated toyota customers and win their business.
Car and Driver did an independant test where they deflated the tires rapidly in a controlled environment and nothing happened if you reacted calmly.
The local subaru dealer by my house has a giant billboard that says "toyota customers welcome" and the local ford place just released an add that said "our pedals dont get stuck, come buy our cars"
Yeah it wasnt rapid deflation that was killing the Firestone tires, it was the low pressures running at 80 MPH for an hour plus that was blowing. Gotta love what overheating a sidewall at 80MPH does.
But truth is to be had, even for an sudden flat, remaining calm is the way to go, something I dont think our current drivers education covers at all.
Get some low profile tires and get a nail in one of them to see this firsthand. Not much air in the low pros.
In sweeden you have to pass a wet tile drift test, truth be told guess where the better drivers are, i know the rich ditzy blonde girls in their escalades by me cant pass it
even better, a COP couldn't figure out how to stop. they need to make licenses harder to get, and start producing some damn standard transmissions again. they've got less problems, better gas efficiency, and are NOT idiot proof, which we can only hope will keep idiots off the road.article said:
we had a humvee in iraq that had the accelerator stuck to the floor, ran with it like that for more than a week before it got fixed.
milage sucked but we had the fastest rig in the desert
milage sucked but we had the fastest rig in the desert
sorry boss, i was originally under the impression it was Ford's design
I dream for the days where drivers licenses actually require you to have driving skill.
Knowing how to parallel park or do a 3-point turn doesn't mean you have any business driving with other cars at highway speeds.
Drifting in the wet? Sounds awesome. Imagine, having to know how to drive in real world conditions to be licensed.
I know that it's a good skill to have, but how many people actually do this in real life?<snip>
Drifting in the wet? Sounds awesome. Imagine, having to know how to drive in real world conditions to be licensed.
It's not so much the particular situation, as it is:I know that it's a good skill to have, but how many people actually do this in real life?
- knowing how a car handles when it loses grip
- knowing what to do in these situations (i.e. don't panic, etc.)
This applies to driving in the wet, hydroplaning, snow, ice, etc.
If the first time you've felt your tires lose grip is when you're in an emergency situation, you've got problems.
Slight edit.
Gotcha. Total agreement. When I look back on driver's ed it seems that it was pretty much useless... the impromptu snow-covered parking lot sessions with the old man were WAY more useful.
I also wish people would realize that when it's slippery the LESS they do the better.
I get that, what I was saying is they rigged an explorer to simulate the blow outs, and when they got one (in the test by rapidly deflating the tire) nothing happened if they remained calm.
Ford screwed up by specifying a psi that was too low for everyday use to create a better ride via tires instead of suspension design, no doubt. but the rollovers were a flaw in the drivers, not in the vehicle in my opinion. Regardless they ended up eating their wheaties on that one, and moving forward, just like toyota will...I just don't think the comparison is nearly the same.
amen to that, I can't count how many times I've made a lane change, hit the slush/snow between lanes, relaxed, and slid over to my intended lane, let the car/tires get traction again, and then resumed along my way.
vs
How many times I have seen someone try to make a lane change, slide, panic, over react, and end up taking another car out and ending up in the barrier/median/ditch
Bean counters kill more people than soldiers these days.
no doubt....I had a similar discussion about drivetrain components on a jeep with an engineer from chrysler, I said if they know the factory rear axle sucks, and the upgraded Dana 44 is available why not just put it on there, he laughed and said because the dana 44 option gets the bean counters $500 (or whatever number it was) per upgraded vehicle lol
Yup.
Growing up I used to play tennis at the university courts. This was right next to a big completely empty lot that the university used for drivers ed. It also had an asphalt skid pad right in the middle of it.
A couple times a year, the police department would get the fire department out there with a truck to hose down the skid pad. Then they would take turns doing full speed skids slides and so on. Particularly interesting was when they'd hit the end of the wet area get whipped back into grip.
Damn those unions and their 5-day work week!! DAMN THEM ALL TO HELL!!!
edit: wait a minute, don't you drive an M3? Did you get the one vehicle that was made by scabs while the rest of Germany was on strike or something?
I took drivers ed in high school and it was useless. I then took drivers ed from my buddies in a local sand pit where I learned that vehicles do not steer when the brakes are locked and other sundry lessons.
Good luck trying trying to pull a car out of gear that's accelerating.
I do think that all of these emergency situations rest squarely on the shoulders of inexperienced drivers. All of the stuff that you have to cover in drivers training is all about how to be a safe driver. Forget get about what happens when a car skids, loses traction, you have a blowout or the million other things that can go wrong. People are idiots and panic.
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Volume wize, yes they have less... thats why to support the same load... two sizes for example, the 2157015... at 35 PSI<making the load nuimbers up> will hold 2k<example>, and your 22545 16, will take 44 to do the same.Get some low profile tires and get a nail in one of them to see this firsthand. Not much air in the low pros.
BUT, a Low pro tire being run low on pressure will still blow out a sidewall just the same as any other overheated sidewall.
Less problems... that depends on which one you refer to
not idiot proof, Ok Ill give ya that
better milage.... maybe 15 years ago, the electronics that are incorperated into vehicles today, make that part an absolutly false statement. The advent of the lock up torque converter killed that statement already, the idea before was you were always having some slip which reduced gas milage, but with a lock up... no more slip once your at speed... Now with the electronic backing, and obsurd fuel stratagies, the auto's are getting the better effeciency
The other oddity of a statement between transmissions, it that manuals are stronger..... By the very nature of using planetary gears... the auto is indeed stronger, your spreading the load acros four gears at all times VS transfering from ont into one.
<Await the strength arguement>
Auto's dont stick in a gear like a Manual does. Seeing how in an auto, your just pushing on a simple valve, were as in a manual, the shifter is pushing directly on the gears, Manuals are very hard to get out of gear while accelerating, while and auto its a matter of turning off a solenoid<which again the synergy drive hydrid system is totally different that both of those by a long shot>
Yup. The reference was to buy a stick so you could just push it out of gear easier. I was making the point that if you are accelerating in a manual car, you aren't pulling it out of gear.
No matter the situation, I think it's panic above all else that causes these accidents. People just freak out when something goes wrong. Most people don't even have a basic understanding of how cars work even though they drive one every day for most of their life.
I would like to see that test done with average joe drivers, some that have passed a test to show they are not retarded. I see tests like that all the time done with professional drivers with masive training, would be great to see how it faired with average daily drivers.
I think the biggest flaw in the driver for the exploder rollovers, was the fact that when the blowouts were happening the drivers were driving WAY to fast in the first place combined with panic.
Thats the thing, when peoplepanic, they forget to push the clutch to try and push the tranny out of gear, which while under power, a manual is pretty hard to do, were as with an auto, its simply put the shift lever into neutral, and the valving takes care of the rest..
I think everyone should go out, and learn what there car does when it loses power, go out, hit fifty MPH, click back the key of click<as to not lock the wheel> and get a few shots of pulling over without power brakes, and without power steering. There is no reason why you should come into a very real possibility completly blind as to what to do.
I agree about people not knowing what to do when they drive a vehicle on a regular basis. In fact it scares the hell out of me, when I first got my drivers license I was scared as hell to get out and drive even after taking the joke California calls drivers ed. It reminds me of a beginner AC class, they are more worries about teaching you laws you forget ten mintues later than teaching how to actually operate a vehicle. I had my license for about a month when I signed up for my first advanced driving course, bes tmoney ever spent. Since taken three courses total, one advanced road course, one advanced race course, and one advanced offroad course. Aside from being a good idea in the first place, they were fun as hell. Personally I think that any and all drivers should not be allowed to drive over fourty till they have taken some type of advanced course above and beyond basic drivers ed.
while I understand your point, I ask if you have seen the Car and Driver test I am referring to?
THe dude had ZERO hands on the wheel, traveling 70 mph, blow out simulated, car safely brought to a stop with only mild input to the steering wheel.
I watched this test when car and driver had their tv show on the then TNN network. Here is an article http://www.explorerexpress.com/reviews/car_and_driver.php
and here is a link to the car and driver article complete with videos....
http://www.caranddriver.com/features/01q1/why_are_ford_explorers_crashing_-column/why_are_ford_explorers_crashing_3f_page_4
They released the 911 tapes. This guy is either a complete idiot or wanted attention. They instruct him repeatedly to try to put the car in neutral and to press and hold the start button. He never responds to the dispatcher. The guy says very little the whole time. You would think if someone kept telling you to do something and it didn't work you would say something.
Yeah Ive seen that one, little bomb basically on the tire to blow the sidewall instantly. Im in the auto industry and try to keep up with stuff like that and the new toyota pedal problem<yeah right, its something else, but we wont get into that just yet>the firestone tire problem, all kinds of recalls taht come up, the dodge front end that would fall apart at fifty, an even better recal fron toyota that noone heard of when the frames were crumbling away behind the upper contorl arms on tacoma's.....<much more dangerous than the pedal>
Anyways, I should clear this a touch more, I want to se the test dont on vehicles that sit how the average joe sits, match their vehicles condition.....worn shocks, worn front end parts, sagging springs....... something closer to a real world scenary.
I would love it if everyone kept up with their vehicles at all times, I would be rich. Personally since I see what isnt fixed on alot of the cars on the road, something going wrong causing vehicles to lose control, lose braking etc.......and those scare me alot worse than any of the idiot drivers out there.
Why would I want to drive an idiot. I'd rather just ride your mom.
Hell toyota bought a lot of trucks back in that tacoma fiasco, I wish I hadstill owned mine at the time.....
As for wanting to see the test ran on an average joe vehicle did you BOTHER to read the link I posted?
If you know ANYTHING About redford, you know that you don't buy a used car from redford to find a cherry, you buy a used car from redford because you have **** credit and need to make weekly payments. My point is that explorer was probably in the condition you are wishing it was in.
You probably couldn't ask for a better test, I can't see what car and driver could ahve done differently.
They picked up an average used explorer, like you asked for, they did the test with no hands on the wheel, the only thing they didn't do was drive irrisponsibly and have a blow out simultaneously, but how can any manufacturer be held responsible for that?
a few days late there cowboy....
http://www.ridemonkey.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3411890&postcount=37
In my defense, I don't bother reading SS's posts.