So you're the one!
Leatt Braces... someone had to say it
- Thread starter bdamschen
- Start date
So you're the one!
As I said in my earlier post I am good at falling of bikes
I agree with some of what you said. I competed in Judo a lot when I was younger. Mebbe that's how I got so good at surviving multiple wrecks on a bike. There is still a possibility that the fall will be awkward or to fast for your reactions. I discovered that possibility is more probable than people realize. While wearing a brace may feel strange at first, for me it was easy to get used to. I can still tuck and roll and have done so. I have full visibility without noticing any restrictions. My friend can not get comfortable in his as he is deeper in the chest with a shorter neck. I guess I am lucky that it works for me but there are other options than the Leatt. For me there is no down side other than the weight. I am not a pro racer and support a family with my real job. Up sides are less chance of debilitating injury.
You can evaluate your risk and skill all you want but sh!t happens.
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This past summer, my wife had a bizarre road bike crash, which ended up with her putting a 3-4cm laceration in her liver. I think it was her handlebars that hit her just below the ribs, and didn't leave a mark on her skin, but left her hospitalized for 4 days. If she and her friend, who also was involved in the crash, hadn't been RN's and quickly evaluated the extent of her injuries, it could've been much worse than just a hospital stay.
So should she and everyone else who rides a roadbike wear some type of armor to protect from that freak accident? And if she did, would she then say after every crash where something skimmed that brace that it saved her life?
They don't even have mandatory helmet laws for motorcyclists in CO, so I can't figure out why anyone would push for mandatory neck braces for riding a bicycle. Do you guys have stock in one of the brace companies?
So should she and everyone else who rides a roadbike wear some type of armor to protect from that freak accident? And if she did, would she then say after every crash where something skimmed that brace that it saved her life?
They don't even have mandatory helmet laws for motorcyclists in CO, so I can't figure out why anyone would push for mandatory neck braces for riding a bicycle. Do you guys have stock in one of the brace companies?
Do you wear a helmet when you ride your bike? If yes, your post may be invalid.
Glad your wife is ok! Not sure what CO motorcycle laws have to do with anything but comparing a liver lac to a neurological injury isn't exactly an intelligent comparison. Sure both can kill you but thats about where the similarities end. You have a hell of a lot better chance of recovery from a liver lac than a high cord injury. Like I said in an earlier post I think a brace should be a mandatory requirement for DH races unless you can prove you have full coverage medical insurance. If you have insurance than feel free to do as you wish. I think quite a few people in this thread haven't truly considered how life altering(or ending) cord injuries can be.
You just read it wrong.
I suggested a roll cage ENHANCES safety, not that it is the sole provider of safety.
Of course, for a convertible, a rollcage (or a Melvins song, sweet willy rollbar) is the only provider of rollover safety.
"Overengineered" is puffery, not fact. Opinion isn't fact.
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Whoops, I'm not in that business any more; haven't been for 8 years now, and am stoked it's behind me in every way, time being the least significant of the ways. I never liked working in that field because of its greed, and its distortion of all costs in modern life. That's why I'm not in it any more. Nonetheless, I still know how it works and still think like an arsewhole lawyer because... well because I'm an online arsewhole who used to be a lawyer!This would seem to explain pretty much everything about your online RM persona, AS.
And thanks for the rolleyes, seriously. The lack of a sense of humor is more amusing than its presence.
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That's great for when you crash at a speed where you have time to react appropriately - but I've been in plenty of crashes where I've hit the ground (or tree) before I've even figured out what's going on. Think high-speed pedal clip, or anything along those lines... I'll save the stop drop n roll for when I'm on fire, and wear my neck brace on the bike.
I think I agree with everything you said. The more I ride and the more I see different kinds of people ride it seems that the people who get really hurt are the people who ride just a little too fast for their reaction speed and falling/rolling ability. I definitely think wearing a leatt reduces that ability to tuck and roll.
Also, does anyone have any info on neck length v. injury? I've always wondered if a longer neck allows more mobility and thus easier to roll out of things, or creates a longer lever and more prone to injury.
This logic is infallible.
Thanks! But I feel like I'm missing some info that everyone else has. Does the rate of spinal cord injuries now rival that of head injuries? My wife was also a nurse in a neural intensive care unit, and during that time I heard about a lot more head than neck injuries. I was comparing her liver lac to neck injuries because both have a fairly low rate of occurence, afaik.
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Never seen a liver brace, but I wear body armour that would've protected me (perhaps, at least mitigated) from the injury your wife had (from how you described it).
I'm not sure why spinal injury would have to rival head injury to make a Leatt (or similar) worth while? I don't have statistics to compare the two but that was never the basis of my argument. Neuro injuries are on the rise regardless (in our sport and others all for various reasons). As a medic by trade I've seen enough of them to know that I personally need to do what I can to limit my chances of sustaining one because I never want to deal with the consequences. For me the Leatt makes sense.
As far as the two injuries being low incidence..... What are you comparing them to? Does it really matter if a neuro injury is low incidence? Seems to me regardless of high or low rate of occurrence this is one type of injury worth every logical precaution.
To each their own, but I don't think we should downplay a piece of gear that can possibly prevent a life altering injury because of incident rates.
Maybe because it seems the neck brace, in most instances, precludes the use of upper body armor, and the internal organs are equally important as the spine?
Yeah, but for road riding? That was my point. If something happens once in a million times, does that make it a high priority to avoid it in the future? Or is it still just a once in a million chance?
Although I'd rather have a design that would allow for thorax armor (no one actually wears abdominal armor, do they?), if pressed to make a choice of which structure I'd rather not have injured I'd pick the spine over the thorax any day.
spinal nerve tissue doesn't heal fast or very well.
If you are that concerned with upper body armor there are companies who make compatible products. I believe I heard that Leatt is working on a specific one made to fit. All of the new Troy Lee Shock Doc stuff works with it and there are a few companies that claim their hard shell armor works.
Sure SOME internal organs are equally as important (the liver being one) in the long run. Short term short of the brain, brainstem, and heart nothing is as immediately important as the upper neck in terms of physical injury. It is simply not a comparable injury. With your wifes liver lac you had plenty of time to seek medical attention. C1 and C2 injuries are usually poor outcome. C3-C5 allows your brain to communicate with you diaphragm which allows your lungs to function. Damage that and you don't have a respiratory drive. Unless you have medics (not emts) on scene or actually are at a hospital your chances of survival much less recovery are slim. Does your wife have any residual effects short of some occasional aches and pains? Do you think if your wife had (god forbid) damaged her C2 vertebra her recovery (if there was a recovery) time would have been as full and quick? I'm not sure you have considered the whole picture here. Not much is more life altering and frightening than a true neuro injury.
The brace works off the principle that any prevention is better than nothing.If you don't want to wear a brace based on statistics thats totally fine! Please don't downplay the importance though.......
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For those that wear the neck brace can anybody give me some advice? I just bought a Leatt (adjustable one) and I know that it will take a few rides tinged used to it. But, I have somewhat of a barrel chest at 44". I'm 5'10 and noticed that I ride with my shoulders hunched a little bit. The hunching, with I think a shortish neck has caused some
rubbing of the helmet and an odd fit
The Alpinestars site suggests that I go with a large. For those that use the A-stars brace does it sit lower than the Leatt? Anybody have experience with both that can shed a little light on my dilemma?
Tanks
rubbing of the helmet and an odd fit
The Alpinestars site suggests that I go with a large. For those that use the A-stars brace does it sit lower than the Leatt? Anybody have experience with both that can shed a little light on my dilemma?
Tanks
On the bright side Stevie Smith is having one the best seasons in his life and yes.... He wears a Leatt 
You're right, the 4g negative dive with the Mig would've been impossible with the visibility restriction imposed by a Leatt, it would have set the film off in a totally different direction.
I had the biggest smash I can imagine onto my head/neck/shoulder yesterday, and while I ache like holy hell today, I got up and carried on. There was a moment when I was flying through the air when I thought "maybe neck braces ain't such a bad idea after all", but I seem fine so I'll carry on without I think. Foolish? Maybe, I don't know. Happy without though.
Maybe I'm using too much anecdotal data (oxymoron?), but that's the thing - I don't know anyone who has had an injury that a neck brace would have prevented.
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But how do you know they wouldn't have helped?
That's where the magic and voodoo of this whole argument comes in to play.
Of course there are tons of people out there who have crashed after purchasing a leatt. From that point on, they're more than happy to say the leatt must have worked after a crash because they can still wiggle their fingers and toes. It's a common response to want to justify dropping $400 on something.
On the other end of the spectrum, there are people who get in a pretty good crash and walk away. They use that to justify not spending the extra cash and putting up with the hassle of remembering to bring and wear one more piece of protective gear.
At the end of the day, without some gnarly scientific study, no one has any idea if a neck brace would have truly made a difference. Even more obscure for those that are wearing a neck brace is if they would have crashed in the first place if they had a little better range of motion.
This.
funny you mention that, was talking to someone from a large protective wear company at crankworx this week who mentioned that they'd done 2-3 years of testing on neck braces and came to the conclusion that there is no conclusive proof that they do anything. people apparently have been asking them why they haven't jumped on the bandwagon, and started producing one. They're focused on other ways of reducing the transmission of energy to the neck/back.
if folks want to wear one for their peace of mind, have at it, but do go saying everyone should be forced to wear one, that's just asinine. there are legitimate concerns with them for some people, and it should be left to personal preference.
Any protection is good, but learning how to fall is more important than anything else. As mentioned above, if you don't know how to get out of your own way you will get hurt.
Sadly, when it comes to falling practice males perfect.
Sadly, when it comes to falling practice males perfect.
That's exactly what I was getting at.
mmm, maybe they haven't figured a way around the patents yet?
I'd say Alpinestars' use of cadavers counts as pretty gnarly in my book.
Posted this in the past, but it's a good read if you take the time to get into it. Also addresses some of the main misconceptions about what sort of protection a brace is designed to provide and to what degree.
http://www.cyclenews.com/articles/industry-news/2009/11/04/neck-protection-let-s-talk-about-it-2/3
Some Leatt testing info:
http://www.leatt-brace.com/company/leatt-lab/lab-testing/simulations/detailed-spine-model/
http://www.leatt-brace.com/company/leatt-lab/lab-testing/test-dummy/
http://www.leatt-brace.com/company/leatt-lab/lab-testing/testing-rigs/pendulum-rig/
http://www.leatt-brace.com/company/leatt-lab/lab-testing/testing-rigs/helmet-impact-rig/
As for anecdotal evidence, you can always find a situation to support your position one side or the other. Case in point: I was in a car accident a few years ago after getting rear ended at 70mph and spining across 3 lanes of freeway traffic. The car was totaled and smashed it up on 3 sides, the airbags failed to deploy, and the rear passenger didn't have a seatbelt on. We got out and walked away. Would I ever buy a car w/out airbags or stop wearing my seatbelt? Not a chance.
Stick with the facts, consider the unknown/immeasurable data, and make a decision yourself.
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Let's all discuss the "thrown clear" philosophy of automobile safety.
Uncomfortable or not, take some advice from a guy who had one, didnt wear it and broke his neck!
http://www.ridemonkey.com/forums/showthread.php?t=244841
http://www.ridemonkey.com/forums/showthread.php?t=244841
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or not. i can vouch for flip's statement because i've heard the same thing directly and independently from the same company as well.
Hahahaha. Nice one.Not true!
