Leatt Braces... someone had to say it
- Thread starter bdamschen
- Start date
I have a new white/black DBX Leatt for sale. I have the box and all parts. I tried it on and didnt like it. It could pass as new. PM me.
I was extremely apprehensive about the Leatt, especially considering it's hefty pricetag.
That was until a friend of mine (and a member of this board), had a nasty scorpion crash on a steep roller, and cracked some vertebrae which nearly paralyzed him. Thankfully, the Canadian docs worked some miracles, and my buddy is now slowly recovering from his partial state of paralysis, with some serious titanium bling in his neck.
He wasn't shy to point out that a Leatt would have saved him from this horrible ordeal.
Fear is a powerful motivator, and if that makes me a pusssy - so be it.. I now wear a Leatt every time I'm on my DH bike. Same for almost every other guy in my riding crew. Luckily, it's one piece of protective gear that i don't even notice. It does not restrict my movement at all, and if anything - gives me more confidence to go faster and harder.
That was until a friend of mine (and a member of this board), had a nasty scorpion crash on a steep roller, and cracked some vertebrae which nearly paralyzed him. Thankfully, the Canadian docs worked some miracles, and my buddy is now slowly recovering from his partial state of paralysis, with some serious titanium bling in his neck.
He wasn't shy to point out that a Leatt would have saved him from this horrible ordeal.
Fear is a powerful motivator, and if that makes me a pusssy - so be it.. I now wear a Leatt every time I'm on my DH bike. Same for almost every other guy in my riding crew. Luckily, it's one piece of protective gear that i don't even notice. It does not restrict my movement at all, and if anything - gives me more confidence to go faster and harder.
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I cant even ride wearing full armor, let alone a brace.
I just dont have as much fun riding with all that stuff and I dont feel comfortable on the bike.
Not feeling comfortable on the bike makes me crash...
I just dont have as much fun riding with all that stuff and I dont feel comfortable on the bike.
Not feeling comfortable on the bike makes me crash...
Dr. Chris Leatt was on DMXS radio last night. Haven't had a chance to listen to the podcast yet, but will hopefully have time today. If you just want to listen to the portion of the show with Dr. Leatt, here's a link.
DMXS solicited questions about the brace on the Vital MX forum, and the biomedical engineer from Leatt posted some interesting info in the thread.
DMXS solicited questions about the brace on the Vital MX forum, and the biomedical engineer from Leatt posted some interesting info in the thread.
so does anyone know what's up with these road braces? this seems to address my main concerns with the back portion sitting on the spine, or not in this case....usable for mtb?
http://www.leattbraces.com/moto-neck-braces/stx-road-neck-brace.html#g_76_0
http://www.leattbraces.com/moto-neck-braces/stx-road-neck-brace.html#g_76_0
That thread is a must-read for every armchair physician and engineer who asserts that a Leatt "surely" saved [them/their friend/their cat] from a cervical fracture. Great questions being asked, particularly concerning third-party empirical data and interpretation.
Interesting... I don't think that would work too well with my chicken wing shoulder blades... Maybe it would.so does anyone know what's up with these road braces? this seems to address my main concerns with the back portion sitting on the spine, or not in this case....usable for mtb?
http://www.leattbraces.com/moto-neck-braces/stx-road-neck-brace.html#g_76_0
You know people said the same thing about full face helmets as well. I think we will eventually see this become mandatory equipment just like the full face and insurance will be the driving force, albeit it will be a long way away
I dont know if longer neck is more prone to injury but i'm 100% sure that peoples with longer neck are the ones confortable with a leatt brace..i have tried one for a while and i can say its impossible for me to ride with one with any sort of confort... I dont think i have a short neck, but not a long one either. Nek lenght is for sure a factor in confort with a neck brace...
great read, thanks. I'm more than happy to continue to use my leatt.
also, for those ninja's who think they can 'tuck and roll' - this was linked to in the article;
http://www.heads-upstabilizer.com/spinal_injuries_in_hockey.html
That's specifically if you're playing hockey and are about to go headon with the boards or goalpost.
I have tucked and rolled out of countless OTB incidents and I'm no ninja, just took a few basic martial arts courses and gymnastics when I was a kid. If you think keeping your head up and doing a scorpion grind is a better solution... well, good luck with that.
Goal posts - no duhThat's specifically if you're playing hockey and are about to go headon with the boards or goalpost.
I have tucked and rolled out of countless OTB incidents and I'm no ninja, just took a few basic martial arts courses and gymnastics when I was a kid. If you think keeping your head up and doing a scorpion grind is a better solution... well, good luck with that.
Otb - awesome. You rock.
Check 2.58 min
My friend...first race this season, first race with a Leatt brace.
There may be actual value in wearing one. Just don't assert that there's any peer-reviewed data to back up that assertion. Leatt's done an effective job of coloring the discussion with emotional marketing, much to their financial benefit.
With that many devices on the market, it shouldn't be difficult for an independent body to conduct a study, or to at least have access to data.
Funny that the Leatt moto has adopted an almost identical set-up to the Omega Braces.
damn, that was scary. How is your friend doing?
i made no such assertion. please don't use a strawman like that to prove your point.
Wasn't necessarily directed at you.
The impetus should be with Leatt and other manufacturers to prove the efficacy of their devices. These devices may work as advertised; I'm just not willing to accept the seller's claims at face value.
The only point that needs to be proven is whether or not data supports the claim about Leatt's products.
There's enough woo in sports "science". We should be demanding data and rational analysis and not basing our conclusions on anecdotal evidence and YouTube videos.
Riders are more than willing to scrutinize BS from component manufacturers, but seem unwilling to do the same for these devices.
He was sore, but ok.
That's damn good to hear, man that was a nasty high speed stack.
I haven't been on the monkey much lately. I got on here to post this link.
Anyway, everyone should listen to the interview with Dr Leatt.
Well I'll add my story here about the importance of a Leatt or similar device.
On August 20th we were at Mt Spokane practicing for a race the following day. The track is not one that is necessarily difficult or technical, just a super fun, fast, flowy trail race...one that I have riding a million times and know every turn, tree, and bump. That lap I was first on the shuttle, so the last off. We rode down to the starting line and I hung back to let all the dust settle before dropping in. I was riding strong, felt good, and let her open up at the bottom. I was nearing the last rider in front of my as the dust was starting to build. Then it happened.
I was whipped directly to the top of my head. There were instant stars and a burning sensation through my entire body. I bounced off to the side of the trail with the wind knocked out of me and chocking blood. I remember thinking about moving, or trying to move, then sharp pain, then nothing. I came to looking at the sky with a bunch of people around me. We think I was out for 10 to 15 minutes before the next group of riders found me in the bushes.
Luckily we had the ski patrol on staff as the race medics. They did an amazing job stabilizing me and getting me off the hill. I spent the next four days in the hospital learning about what had happened. During the crash I re-injured my separated ribs, received a minor concussion, dislocated and relocated my jaw, bit through the side of my tongue, and fractured C1, T2, and T6. Luckily, the spinal fractures were all due to compression and there was no displacement of any bone.
My neurosurgeon said I was one of the lucky ones. After examining my helmet and Leatt, he stated that the brace was the reason I was still alive. Without it the compressive forces and action on my next would have most likely killed me. I am now one month into wearing a rigid neck collar. All of the fractures are callused over and the piece of C1 that broke off is fused where it needs to be. At this point I am in no need of surgery and on my way to make a 100% recovery.
Everyone should wear a neck brace; it doesn’t matter if you are a beginner or a pro. Like someone said earlier, it’s not a matter of if you will crash it’s just a matter of when. I have had my brush with death and will never ride without a Leatt.
Here are some photos of my helmet and Leatt after the crash:
On August 20th we were at Mt Spokane practicing for a race the following day. The track is not one that is necessarily difficult or technical, just a super fun, fast, flowy trail race...one that I have riding a million times and know every turn, tree, and bump. That lap I was first on the shuttle, so the last off. We rode down to the starting line and I hung back to let all the dust settle before dropping in. I was riding strong, felt good, and let her open up at the bottom. I was nearing the last rider in front of my as the dust was starting to build. Then it happened.
I was whipped directly to the top of my head. There were instant stars and a burning sensation through my entire body. I bounced off to the side of the trail with the wind knocked out of me and chocking blood. I remember thinking about moving, or trying to move, then sharp pain, then nothing. I came to looking at the sky with a bunch of people around me. We think I was out for 10 to 15 minutes before the next group of riders found me in the bushes.
Luckily we had the ski patrol on staff as the race medics. They did an amazing job stabilizing me and getting me off the hill. I spent the next four days in the hospital learning about what had happened. During the crash I re-injured my separated ribs, received a minor concussion, dislocated and relocated my jaw, bit through the side of my tongue, and fractured C1, T2, and T6. Luckily, the spinal fractures were all due to compression and there was no displacement of any bone.
My neurosurgeon said I was one of the lucky ones. After examining my helmet and Leatt, he stated that the brace was the reason I was still alive. Without it the compressive forces and action on my next would have most likely killed me. I am now one month into wearing a rigid neck collar. All of the fractures are callused over and the piece of C1 that broke off is fused where it needs to be. At this point I am in no need of surgery and on my way to make a 100% recovery.
Everyone should wear a neck brace; it doesn’t matter if you are a beginner or a pro. Like someone said earlier, it’s not a matter of if you will crash it’s just a matter of when. I have had my brush with death and will never ride without a Leatt.
Here are some photos of my helmet and Leatt after the crash:
First of all good to hear that you came away from your crash atleat somewhat allright.
But the question still remains unanswered if the crash would have actually killed you because that is impossible to tell since the exact crash wont happen twice, so you could do it without the Leatt and see what happens. But i guess once is more than enough
I do usually ride with a leatt but i am not 100% sold on it, especially the rear strout that will transfer forces to the spine whereas it could be transfered to the shoulders instead, which seems to me alittle wrong. The sides also feel like they would act more as a pivot than actually stop my head from rotating and bending my neck, but front to back it definetly feels alot more secure. Compression forces would definetly be better handled with a leatt on than not.
I think the Leatt still has some way to go untill its perfected, like any other new type of product just look at how helmets have changed over time.
But the question still remains unanswered if the crash would have actually killed you because that is impossible to tell since the exact crash wont happen twice, so you could do it without the Leatt and see what happens. But i guess once is more than enough
I do usually ride with a leatt but i am not 100% sold on it, especially the rear strout that will transfer forces to the spine whereas it could be transfered to the shoulders instead, which seems to me alittle wrong. The sides also feel like they would act more as a pivot than actually stop my head from rotating and bending my neck, but front to back it definetly feels alot more secure. Compression forces would definetly be better handled with a leatt on than not.
I think the Leatt still has some way to go untill its perfected, like any other new type of product just look at how helmets have changed over time.
I think in this case testimony from his doctor is a pretty good substitute for attempting to replicate the accident.But the question still remains unanswered if the crash would have actually killed you because that is impossible to tell since the exact crash wont happen twice, so you could do it without the Leatt and see what happens. But i guess once is more than enough
Devil's Advocate: We hear about all these crashes in which people believe a leatt saved their life or kept them out of a wheel chair now. Why didn't we hear more horror stories about people getting paralyzed or killed in our sport before?
Those people probably aren't using the internet...
I broke my neck and back not wearing a brace and am still living to tell the tale...and I also had a mega scorpion earlier this year where I didn't break my neck....and I've heard of people who have broken backs at the bottom of their leatt in crashes. hey, you do what you think you need to do and I will do the same.
Agreed. It would clear up a lot of confusion over issues with the Leatt.
For example the braces rear stabiliser Fails at 300nm. For an impact that could cause a spinal fracture in the location would need to be 900nm. Basically, if people have a crash that results in a fracture in that region it was going to happen regardless of them wearing a brace.
It's difficult to construct a study on injury mechanisms & prevention aids that controls for all other variables that would confound conclusions. I think it's fair to say that some progress in protection technology has come from common sense solutions to what most would agree are reasonable injury mechanism models.
My understanding is that HANS-type neck restraint systems have become ubiquitous in WRC racing. My assumption is that in the early years of that adoption, there was little or no statistical evidence in favor of it, but since most drivers experienced whiplash injuries during their careers and felt that they understood that injury mechanism, it didn't take much to convince drivers that this device was worth using.
To me the Leatt design doesn't quite feel right...i get the sensation that pressure will be applied in areas I don't want. The Omega immediately felt more comfortable -- not just less intrusive, but it also felt like it would apply pressure to areas that are mostly muscle and not delicate bone.
I don't need a study to tell me that a FF helmet that fits with continuous pressure all over, rather than having areas that are loose-feeling, will likely do its job better. Ultimately anyone interested in protection devices has to factor in their own judgement of what makes sense. Eventually there may be large, statistically-sound studies performed that prove things to a 95% confidence level, but that may take time.
Not that many years ago the statistical science behind seatbelts in cars was lacking. And there were plenty of theories about how seatbelts could potentially increase injury risk. If you hypothetically were an adult back then, and about to buy a car (e.g. a Volvo) that had lap and shoulder belts, would you use them? Or would you wait a decade until all the statistical science was in place?
My understanding is that HANS-type neck restraint systems have become ubiquitous in WRC racing. My assumption is that in the early years of that adoption, there was little or no statistical evidence in favor of it, but since most drivers experienced whiplash injuries during their careers and felt that they understood that injury mechanism, it didn't take much to convince drivers that this device was worth using.
To me the Leatt design doesn't quite feel right...i get the sensation that pressure will be applied in areas I don't want. The Omega immediately felt more comfortable -- not just less intrusive, but it also felt like it would apply pressure to areas that are mostly muscle and not delicate bone.
I don't need a study to tell me that a FF helmet that fits with continuous pressure all over, rather than having areas that are loose-feeling, will likely do its job better. Ultimately anyone interested in protection devices has to factor in their own judgement of what makes sense. Eventually there may be large, statistically-sound studies performed that prove things to a 95% confidence level, but that may take time.
Not that many years ago the statistical science behind seatbelts in cars was lacking. And there were plenty of theories about how seatbelts could potentially increase injury risk. If you hypothetically were an adult back then, and about to buy a car (e.g. a Volvo) that had lap and shoulder belts, would you use them? Or would you wait a decade until all the statistical science was in place?
you using the x1?
Yep. I've written about it a couple of times. I'm not the kind of person that pushes anything on anyone, but sometimes it seems to me that mtb riders act as if Leatt is the only brand on the market, so I encourage people to consider other brands. Hell this very thread is an example of that Leatt-centric view -- look at the thread title.
The older Omega was not low profile enough to work w/ armor, from people i talked to. The X1 can be adjusted to a very low profile and works w/ my various helmets. Or adjusted higher for that TLD pajama / Franz Ferdinand T-shirt look.
Do I have any anecdotes after 2 summers of using it to 'prove' it works? No. I have had one incident where I suspect it may have helped. Who knows.
I ride conservatively, sometimes kinda fast on trails I know well, but mostly conservatively. Close family member spending rest of their life in a wheelchair thanks to mtn biking. Will never walk again. Given that, I cannot contemplate DH riding without doing what I can to potentially minimize spinal injuries. I.e. I look at the burden of proof differently -- if something like auto seatbelts or neck braces makes sense to my engineering brain, then I will probably use it unless a good study comes out proving it doesn't help at all or makes things even worse.
I do not judge anyone who decides they'd rather spend the $300 on anodized bling parts. It's their life, and their family, not mine. And it's not like it's been strongly proven to help (yet).
That's probably because I was referring to my experiences with my leatt brace. Pros with leatts got mentioned just to fan a fire/add to ridemonkey asshat-ery
Never tried any of the other braces, could barely afford the one I got now
Again, everyone should listen to the interview with Chris Leatt. He discusses 3rd party testing and standards. He said that he would 3rd party test. However, there is not a test standard. Leatt can't define the standard since it would be viewed as bias. I'm sure Wayne State or U of M would do a study and recommend a standard test method if USAC paid them to do it. They both have plenty experience with this from all of their auto expierence. Major cash. But then again, where did my $65 go? The NFL does plenty of development for player safety.
Anyway, there was also a bunch of data on the design and testing.
Anyway, there was also a bunch of data on the design and testing.
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I remember listening to that episode of DMXS and I feel that he explained stuff every well and never side stepped any questions. DMXS even asked listers to submit questions that they would ask Dr. Leatt. These questions were very good and ranged from testing, strut failure to why certain pro riders have stopped wearing the braces.
But then again why would you want to listen to something informational.