I dont see how a leatt can flex enough to even touch your collarbonez. You crazy.
Leatt Braces... someone had to say it
- Thread starter bdamschen
- Start date
LOL Scorpion, i have no idea what that is I can only guess, must be some yank wordingYeah I used to roll out of out scorpions all the time before I got my leatt. What you said makes no sense... how do you roll out when your heels are kicking the back of your head and your face is in the ground and be "fine as ever"?
Well it sort of does make sense. You have prob only had a neck brace for a few years now. And unless you only started riding a few years ago, im sure you used to ride without one... As they did not really exist.
So when you used to ride a few years ago with out one. and you crashed. What happend... You crashed did what ever you do and prob walked away fine, just a little hurt as ever...
So what im trying to say is. All of a sudden now neck brace's are on the market everyone is saying wow i felt the brace take the impact when i crashed without it I would have broken my neck or damaged my spine..
Well not really as you used to crash a few years ago without them and you did not do anything to bad then (unless you had some major awful crash i cant comprehend)
Now unless your a stupidly fast rider / crazy no fear / or jsut plain sh*t. how ofter do you crash and smack the back of your head with your heals..... Bit of an over exsageration there mate..
But of corse someone will come on in a sec and say yeah it saved my life my doctor said
But also before i get flamed, like i said in my original post Its not i think they are a bad idea...
I just think the Leatt one is designed really poorly...(pm if you want the details i did a Bachelor in engineering on them)
I think with more development better ones will come that will make a difference as is 100% a weak point
POC's idea could be cool
I just think the Leatt one is designed really poorly...(pm if you want the details i did a Bachelor in engineering on them)
I think with more development better ones will come that will make a difference as is 100% a weak point
POC's idea could be cool
I have not had an issue rolling out of crashes while wearing the leatt. Seems like a personal fit thing as far as the brace restricting movement.LOL Scorpion, i have no idea what that is I can only guess, must be some yank wording
Well it sort of does make sense. You have prob only had a neck brace for a few years now. And unless you only started riding a few years ago, im sure you used to ride without one... As they did not really exist.
So when you used to ride a few years ago with out one. and you crashed. What happend... You crashed did what ever you do and prob walked away fine, just a little hurt as ever... No. I hurt my neck pretty good a couple of times, not broken...I think.
So what im trying to say is. All of a sudden now neck brace's are on the market everyone is saying wow i felt the brace take the impact when i crashed without it I would have broken my neck or damaged my spine.. I had this happen once. Cracked my helmet and snapped the back tail of the brace. Don't know if it saved my life and did not ask my doctor. No neck pain though
Well not really as you used to crash a few years ago without them and you did not do anything to bad then (unless you had some major awful crash i cant comprehend)See above
Now unless your a stupidly fast rider / crazy no fear / or jsut plain sh*t. how ofter do you crash and smack the back of your head with your heals..... Bit of an over exsageration there mate..
But of corse someone will come on in a sec and say yeah it saved my life my doctor said
I agree with you that there is always room for improvement and this is new technology, so probably has a lot more room to improve. In my experience it has done its job without negative effect. Hardly scientific, no thesis paper to back it up, but the brace is a step in the right direction for me.
I'm open to a better system or brace. What is the 100% weak point you speak of and what is POC's idea?
7 months later and the debate rages on. Maybe one day I'll be able to afford one of the bike specific braces rather than the OG moto version I bought when they came out.
In the meantime- now the Athertons have stopped wearing theirs even after Dan's injury. Why?
In the meantime- now the Athertons have stopped wearing theirs even after Dan's injury. Why?
When I spoke to Leatt the only difference between the moto and bike models was the pad kit. The bike version having lower profile padding to allow for a bit more head movement.
you can't convince everyone.
but based on my education, training, and first hand experience, i believe that the evidence (testing data, biomechanical simulation) presented by Leatt and other sources is sufficient to warrant myself wearing one and espousing that others do the same.
but based on my education, training, and first hand experience, i believe that the evidence (testing data, biomechanical simulation) presented by Leatt and other sources is sufficient to warrant myself wearing one and espousing that others do the same.
Exactly. I hate mine because it hits my helmet on steep and gnarly trails
of course data from leatt is going to shine a favorable light on their braces...
Haven't seen too many other sources go into detail about them. I'm not trying to trash leatt braces, I'd just like to see a discussion where good unbiased facts are used. People publishing data on leatt braces who work for leatt have a bit of a conflict of interest.
"Although an ingenious idea, neck braces are quite simple in functionality. Their purpose is to restrict the amount of movement or travel in the neck during an accident. They achieve this by resting on your shoulders like a collar around your neck and forming a kind of base support for your helmet."
Does the leatt not do this?
Does the leatt not do this?
I look at it similarly, and I also look at it like a seatbelt. My head and my neck are pretty important body parts for daily life. So I protect them. I have broken vertebrae before, in my uneducated unscientific opinion I feel the leatt will help prevent that, so I wear one.
Do you have the bike specific pad kit on the rear? You can also flip the rear adjustment clips on the rear to push it down even further. Before I made those changes I was having trouble riding Livewire of all trails because I couldn't look forward enough. After those two simple changes and it doesn't bother me at all. It should be noted that I use a moto helmet. With a bike helmet I'd have even more range of movement.
No new pad kit, but the adjustment clips are flipped. I'm also using a DOT/Snell helmet with seems to feel more obnoxious than my previous helmet.
For those proponents of leatt braces- why isn't every pro running one, or something like it?
I ran mine with flipped chips but no pad kit. Pad kit made all the difference.
Why doesn't everyone wear a seatbelt? Why do people still smoke knowing it will likely kill them?
Sounds like it's time to pick up a pad kit... I hope they're cheap
Every racecar driver wears a seatbelt. Smoking isn't a good analogy- it's an addictive substance that most people try when they're too young to know better and then can't quit.
why didn't all racecar drivers where haans devices? Why do most wear them now? I am not saying a Leatt is a great fix, or a sure fire answer, but they haven't been on the market all that long in comparison either
The problem with research into devices like this is that the bulk of the data is inevitably the result of manufacturer-funded studies. That makes it difficult to suss out conclusions, but access to the data helps.
I'm now more inclined to think these devices have benefit than before, but I'm still not going to believe that they're appropriate for all circumstances and all riders.
I'm now more inclined to think these devices have benefit than before, but I'm still not going to believe that they're appropriate for all circumstances and all riders.
Even though the Haans device had been around a long time, most drivers didn't start using the device until after a well known driver was killed when it could have saved his life.
By that logic, most riders should be wearing them after Tara Llanes' accident.
Just to be clear: I'm not hating on or taking shots at the leatt brace- I wear one every time I ride my DH bike, I'm just looking for a serious discussion about them rather than he said, she said or "I crashed and it saved my life, I just know it." as evidence for how well they work.
I look at what the pros are doing because they have the most experience with the topic at hand and they are spending the most time risking a possible accident where a neck brace is said to beneficial.
I'm right there with you, I don't know if they are great, or not great. I haven't crashed with mine on yet, I like you have started wearing one recently and I felt it was worth the investment, I don't hear of as many people saying "I crashed and it made me get seriously injured" nearly as often as I hear "i crashed and it saved my life like a miracle" so I figured there was more GOOD than BAD in wearing one.
I would like to hope I wear it, just like my seatbelt, or my lifejacket in my boat, and I never have to find out if I needed the damn thing or not.
Here's where I feel the conflict. For some reason that I can't explain- I crash way more with it on. You would think: so what? you're neck is protected! But I ended up breaking my hand in one crash, my arm and getting 6 pins in my elbow in another and taking an ER trip for a possible broken hand, rung bell with a third. Not a single broken bone without the brace. (and no I don't feel like I'm taking more risks with the leatt on)
Related? maybe, maybe not, but enough to make me wonder if I should put it on each time.
I rode and raced with my leatt for two years, then decided to take it off for a practice run at a race this summer and instantly felt more aggressive, smoother, faster. I could get way more forward on the bike and really attack corners. Then after a few weeks of no leatt, threw it back on and couldnt stay on the bike. For me its a performance/balance thing. I will keep mine off.
And you've got definitive proof that a Leatt or similar brace would've saved every one of those people? This automatic assumption, along with all the "espousing" that they should be mandatory equipment does not help your argument.
As opposing annecdotal evidence - go to skateparks or dirtjumps and see how many people are even wearing helmets, and see how many are taken away by ambulance for spinal injuries.
Just want to point out that calling racing car harnesses "seatbelts" is a bit of an understatement.
Sorry, 5 point harness. Happy?
Muy contento; thanks bro!
I never said they should be mandatory. But im clearly pro-leatt (or other approved/tested brace). For me, the upsides outweigh the downsides, as I dont feel off balance or restricted with it on the bike. I read medical and research journals regularly, empiric/irrefutable proof is few and far between. Primarily due to numbers of subjects, nature of the study, ethics, time and money.
Examining the evidence, the physics and simulation makes sense. And again, from my own first accounts and from accounts i have read about, it is consistent with the results of the testing. Redistributing load away from the cervical spine conceptually should reduce SCI. Now is it proven that wearing A prevents B? Probably not to your high standards.
If you dont want to wear one, it's cool, but I wear one and recommend it to others. I have looked at the evidence and my opinions come from that.
Sorry if you get all butt hurt over it.
Examining the evidence, the physics and simulation makes sense. And again, from my own first accounts and from accounts i have read about, it is consistent with the results of the testing. Redistributing load away from the cervical spine conceptually should reduce SCI. Now is it proven that wearing A prevents B? Probably not to your high standards.
If you dont want to wear one, it's cool, but I wear one and recommend it to others. I have looked at the evidence and my opinions come from that.
Sorry if you get all butt hurt over it.
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Why, does the Leatt prevent that, too? Because that would be a whole new market...
I think it depends on your build, whether or not it might impede your riding. I have a large head, short neck and big chest so my helmet hits my chest and back armor far before I'm close to my range of motion. Because of this, a leatt type brace is far too restrictive. I'd like to have protection against compression-type injuries, and A*'s research shows this is the most important issue, but I can't trade off being able to look up.
IMO if your helmet touches your brace while riding you are going to compensate for it by compromising your body position on the bike, which could certainly lead to more crashes and slower times...
IMO if your helmet touches your brace while riding you are going to compensate for it by compromising your body position on the bike, which could certainly lead to more crashes and slower times...
Easy tiger! I'm just not one to trust only data provided by a company that paints their product in a favorable light. I'm sure pfizer has data somewhere that shows how healthy viagra is and head-on has some info that shows how applying directly to the forehead is good for you as well. I'd be interested in seeing the evidence, physics and simulations done by third parties if you've got a link. Again, no butthurt on this end, just looking for a good debate with unbiased facts.
Maybe our sport is just too small for that sort of thing though? Someone get the Standford medical center on the horn and tell them they need to help us settle an internet argument!
Hmm, that's like asking why isn't every pro using elbow pads? Because they aren't mandatory in the rules and some people find them uncomfortable and feel they ride better without them. I think it's safe to say that if pro riders (or any rider for that matter) had their physical wellbeing as their sole concern, they wouldn't be riding downhill in the first place. It's a massive (and wrong, IMO) logical leap to infer that because a lot of pros don't wear neck braces, they don't work.
Part of the problem is people are looking for absolute answers where there are none. If you want something close to a definite answer, in my opinion you would need a pair of identical twins, one with brace, one without, subjected to controlled crashes. Afterwards, see which one can feel their legs. I'm sorry to sound flippant, but if you want the most realistic data possible, I think you would have to have someone willing to accept paralysis as part of the procedure, and we all know that isn't going to happen.
For now I'm happy to take the simulated test results and anecdotal evidence as reason for me to keep wearing my brace. Make your own mind up, but don't complain if you make the wrong decision.
A* tested on cadavers...
So now if they're not fitting people properly and some people (such as myself) feel they are crashing more with them (and getting more hurt in the non neck area). Are they really better to wear?
For myself at least, I've never had a close call where I had done anything even remotely close to jacking up my neck/back until after I started wearing a brace.
Get over it, it's for safety. Same people said the same crap when mandatory seatbelt and motorcycle helmet laws were enacted.
Wow Brian. Your thread makes my neck hurt...
bdamschen "Are they really better to wear?"
This thread shows opinions are like a$$holes.....and there are plenty of opinions here.
Plenty of different body types, riding styles and crash scenarios too. If I was crashing more from wearing one I would not wear it. Do what you want. That's what everyone else does.
I don't think there is an absolute answer to your question at the moment
This thread shows opinions are like a$$holes.....and there are plenty of opinions here.
Plenty of different body types, riding styles and crash scenarios too. If I was crashing more from wearing one I would not wear it. Do what you want. That's what everyone else does.
I don't think there is an absolute answer to your question at the moment
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wanting unbiased 3rd party safety data is bad? Even if it uses the same methodologies as the manufactures seems to me that it would have value...
I have a leatte brace, it hasn't led me to go slower, or have more crashes. the only complaint I have with it is a little bit of minor chaffing after wearing it all day.
That said: I'm surprised, because I expected a bunch of reasonable responses from the people pro leatt, and crazy wonky responses from the anti guys. But its the opposite. Who the fyck complains about third party testing, and what proof is there other then leatt saying its great? Sure, anecdotal evidence is cool, and it was enough to convince me to buy one, but that doesn't mean I'm not the slightest bit curious about whether or not I got suckered on somebody trying to sell me something to make me safer.
That said: I'm surprised, because I expected a bunch of reasonable responses from the people pro leatt, and crazy wonky responses from the anti guys. But its the opposite. Who the fyck complains about third party testing, and what proof is there other then leatt saying its great? Sure, anecdotal evidence is cool, and it was enough to convince me to buy one, but that doesn't mean I'm not the slightest bit curious about whether or not I got suckered on somebody trying to sell me something to make me safer.