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Legal Singletrack at Joaquim Miller Park

Discussion in 'California & Hawaii' started by sanjuro, Dec 9, 2005.

  1. sanjuro

    sanjuro Tube Smuggler

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    #1 -   Dec 9, 2005

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  2. justsomeguy

    justsomeguy Monkey

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    Shuttling JM? LOL!

    Those trails are legal but riding out of control on those VERY sensitive (from an advocacy standpoint) trails is pretty dumb IMO.
     
    #2 -   Dec 9, 2005
  3. ghettogt76

    ghettogt76 Monkey

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    I pretty much agree. When I rode those on my DH bike, I've had a few hikers call me an asshole and give me bad stares. Anyway, took the hardtail out last time, no complaints (even though I didn't see hikers, but even if I did, I'd be going to slow on my hardtail that I doubt they'd care). To tell you the truth, I had more fun on my hardtail than on my DH bike (it was actually challenging).
     
    #3 -   Dec 9, 2005
  4. justsomeguy

    justsomeguy Monkey

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    Great.

    Please talk to your out of control friend and explain to him why riding there, in that manner, is not a good thing.
     
    #4 -   Dec 9, 2005
  5. ghettogt76

    ghettogt76 Monkey

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    :confused: where did I say anything about friends? All the people I ride with are not out of control, and are very curteous to hikers.
     
    #5 -   Dec 9, 2005
  6. justsomeguy

    justsomeguy Monkey

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    "TheMontashu":

    "I come into the last corner on the inside line, the outside one is a big rut, and as I come through it I am in a 2 wheel drift through the corner. Well as I’m coming through the corner my rear tire slides a bit to far and goes into the rut, I go over sideways on my shoulder and slide for a while through the mud and rocks. I get up and walk down to the car and wash the blood/mud off."

    That sure sounds like he's out of control to me.
     
    #6 -   Dec 9, 2005
  7. MVRIDER

    MVRIDER Monkey

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    Welcome to mountain biking.:rolleyes:
     
    #7 -   Dec 9, 2005
  8. Brian HCM#1

    Brian HCM#1 MMMMMMMMM BEER!!!!!!!!!!

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    Yes they are legal trails, sometimes they will close them during the winter to riding, but reopen them mid april weather permitting.
     
    #8 -   Dec 9, 2005
  9. justsomeguy

    justsomeguy Monkey

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    That's a cute little smiley and thanks for the belated wecome to something that I've been doing for a long, long time.

    The point, which you so obviously missed, is that JM is just about the worst place to be riding out of control and cranking around corners (many of them blind) given the sh|tstorm of access issues and number of militant anti-bike kooks that are involved.

    The shuttling is funny but groms riding like JM is some DH course has been and continues to be a problem.
     
    #9 -   Dec 9, 2005
  10. sanjuro

    sanjuro Tube Smuggler

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    Thank you for your lecture on mountain biking in Joaquin Miller Park. I did not realize a park in a populated urban area bordering a city known for its environmental activism would be adverse towards aggressive riding.

    While my two riding partners are teenagers, I am not. While I rode aggressively (i.e. over waterbars and ledges, not around), I chose smart lines and I was careful around corners and other blind spots. There were no hikers on the trails, but I would have slowed to walking pace until I passed them, like I do on every ride I go on.

    TheMontashu crashed on a rutted area, which there were no good lines. However, it was on a long straightway where you had at least 200 yards of sightline.
     
  11. justsomeguy

    justsomeguy Monkey

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    Can you explain how he thought he crashed in a corner and you think he crash on a straightaway? Thanks.

    Scroll down for some JM info here:

    http://www.btceb.org/

    Read some more of the history here:

    http://www.btceb.org/jmpreport.htm
     
  12. sanjuro

    sanjuro Tube Smuggler

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    It was not a corner. I turned the corner after he crashed and I had at least 20 yards to slow and pass him. Keep in mind that he saw dirt, I saw the crash.

    And I skimmed the piece, which concerned itself with erosion and off-trail riding. Here is its recommendations:

    I will only ride the legal singletrack there, and I will minimize my braking so that there will be no skidding or braking bumps. But since there was no recommendation about speed or interaction to hikers, I guess they can get the hell out of my way when I go by at 35mph (remember no braking means no trail damage).

    Seriously, drop the preaching, and you might find a better audience to what is totally obvious to any Bay Area trail rider.
     
  13. lonewolfe

    lonewolfe Monkey

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    I ride out at JM on a couple of times a week. I'm fortunate to live a few minutes away. Yes, I do shuttle runs up there every now and then with some of my buds but we only ride legal trails and do not make a practice out of running down any hikers. I've got to be the most courteous and accomodating rider on the trail when it comes to hikers with their dogs almost always off lease(NOT LEGAL), trail runners and the occasional horse and rider. What do I get in return? Well, hopefully to keep riding in the park legally but I also get a lot of profanity and grief from some of the floppy hat hiking crowd. For what? For being there invading "THEIR SPACE". I've heard those exact words on several occasions. I've also come accross boobytraps on the trails more than once. One time it was a thin wire tied accross the trail that would have hit me right about where my neck is if I had not seen it. That sort of thing could easily be fatal to some unknowing cyclist. To be honest, it's sometimes a challenge to be nice out there. But, I do it none the less. I even joined the BTCEB a couple of days ago to become more involved in keeping Joachin Miller Park open to bikes. I know, I'm ranting but I'd really like to pulverize some of the jerks out there.
     
  14. Brian HCM#1

    Brian HCM#1 MMMMMMMMM BEER!!!!!!!!!!

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    I'll be there tomorrow morning.
     
  15. ghettogt76

    ghettogt76 Monkey

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    You're retarded. Have you ever been cruising, completey in control, and then you hit something and you crash? Sounds like you're never been on a mountain bike, idiot.

    I ride with monstashu a lot it seems, and I know that he can't barely even go fast enough to be considered "out of control" as you call it.

    Anyway, whenever I see hikers on the trail, I SLOW down and tell them "thank you" for letting me pass. What do I get in return? A mean stare, them calling me an asshole, or something like that. Yes, we know we have to share the trail, but the HIKERS don't understand that the road goes both ways.

    That is scary about the booby traps. The most I've seen out there was logs on a little jump. Where did the find the wire? If I ever saw someone doing that, I'd stop them and call the police on them. That could easily kill/hurt someone, even a runner/hiker.
     
  16. Brian HCM#1

    Brian HCM#1 MMMMMMMMM BEER!!!!!!!!!!

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    I've never heard or seen booby traps there and have been riding there since 1998. That place in NOT East Bay Regional parks, it's owned by the City of Oakland and is patrolled on foot by Oakland police.
     
  17. lonewolfe

    lonewolfe Monkey

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    The wire incident happened a couple of years ago and I have not heard of anything like that since. As for things getting piled up behind any jumps keep a look out for a skinny, floppy hat wearing guy who is probably late fifties, greying hair and about 5'9". If you pass him hiking up when you are on the way down then really keep your eyes open for piles of logs, rocks or debris on the backside of jumps. I've run into this 3-4 times and that same jerk keeps turning up a little ahead of time. Another clue, if you pass and say hello, or even stop and say hello, he will not even look at you or say anything. JM is a great place to ride but there are a few radical bike haters up there. I'd go but I have a cold and will have to see how I'm feeling in the morning. Have a great ride.
     
  18. ghettogt76

    ghettogt76 Monkey

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    That wire thing is scary. Glad it didn't hurt anyone and that nothing like that has happened recently.

    As for the guy putting junk on landings, he needs to get a life. To injure a someone by putting junk on the landings is messed up. What an asshole :mumble: :mad: :mad: :mad:
     
  19. Heath Sherratt

    Heath Sherratt Turbo Monkey

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    Ahhhh, I love riding there. I miss it. There and rockville are so great to ride in the bad weather. Such great trail networks and beautiful, lush scenery. What a great place to ride.
     
  20. alloutproductio

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    man, i got taken out by a boobytrap there (spikey log placed at a
    blind dropin on the old pinball trail) in '98 or '99.....it happens!
     
  21. alloutproductio

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    i'd love to change this tired ass topic tho
    n thread-jack....
    how about posting your favorite hooker sightings up in joaquin???
    i'll start with the Palos sighting of '02 -- a 350 pounder with triple-E's getting it doggystyle as we came around the
    corner...classic! man, if i had the helmetcam on could've made a fortune!!
     
  22. East Bay Rich

    East Bay Rich Monkey

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    I once saw a magical elf wizard chanting middle-earthland poetry to his mystic sorceress half way down Big Trees. It was like a freakin' LOTR club meeting in the woods. The old dude had the full robe and magical staff...

    Hardtails and trailbikes are all you need at JM!
    -Rich
     
  23. lonewolfe

    lonewolfe Monkey

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    What's that all about? Oh, that's a Gay Porn company right?

    Just winding you up a bit Theo!

    But really, a spiked log? That guy was going to get mid-evil on your ass!

    And for the wizard, I've seen that guy and his bitch up there too doing MAGICAL things on Big Trees. He used to park himself right in front of the jump that went through the two redwood trees there about midway down Big Trees. And the jerk would never move. That's some little sacred spot for those guys. If you look west towards the woods there is stone wall with a plaque on it.
     
  24. alloutproductio

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    you got it mark,
    branching out man!
    it'll be called allinproductions...

    but hey, you guys remember those crazed wicka/blairwitch
    huts they built right near there??
    maybe it was the work of the warlock too....
    spoooooky!
     
  25. lonewolfe

    lonewolfe Monkey

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    Yeah Baby!

    You know, that is a multi-million dollar industry.
     
  26. sanjuro

    sanjuro Tube Smuggler

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    Left from the Ranger Station about 8:30am. Pushed up Sunset, rode along Sequoia Bayview. Only a few hikers to speak of, and some great views of the city.

    Went down Cinderella. There were some jerks with Karpiels pushing up to the top, told them to go back to Ridemonkey and get hell out of the way!!! Just kidding Brian!

    Pedaled back to the Ranger Station. Met up with my friends. Went back over to Cinderella. More hikers now, but only on the way up.

    One friend had bought a bike at REI, and had no working brakes. Luckily, I got him to stop before the bottom of Cinderella.

    Had fun, but there are too many people there to rail it during business hours.
     
  27. Brian HCM#1

    Brian HCM#1 MMMMMMMMM BEER!!!!!!!!!!

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    Back then there was a lot of illegal trails, like around the Big Trees area, but wasn't inforced up untill about 5 years ago (They were REALLY FUN!!!!!). We now just usally stay on the legal trails to play it safe.
     
  28. Brian HCM#1

    Brian HCM#1 MMMMMMMMM BEER!!!!!!!!!!

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    You should have kicked their asses!!!! Karpiel riders are nothing but a-holes:cool: Damn trail conditions on Cinderella were just perfect, never ran into anyone on either decent:thumb: It was nice meeting you for that 30 seconds. We'll have to hook up and shuttle there soon:)
     
  29. keen

    keen Monkey

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    I ride JM a few time a week. I spend the majority of my time keeping a watchfull eye for hikers / dog walkers - Do you think that most kikers / dog walkers are thinking about bikers - NO! They are too busy sightseeing, watching their animals chase their tails and BS'ing so along comes a bike, @ any speed, and they are suprised, taken back that something else occupies the trail - not their trail. I think about all the trails available to hikers and the small amount for bikes and wonder Why not post signs @ Cinderella & Chapperall - "CAUTION BIKE TRAILS - PROCEED WITH CAUTION". I ride Chapperall hard, but still watch for hikers - what gets me is when they see me and don't move they proceed with facial gestures and sometimes profanity. I want to know what makes them owners of the trail ? I could see if I inflicted physical harm - so what if they are suprised to see me - I am not suprised to see them, I am aware that others are using the trails, are they ?
     
  30. ghettogt76

    ghettogt76 Monkey

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    Couldn't have said it better myself...


    On a side note, is anyone going to be riding there this week? I might try and head out sometime.
     
  31. TheMontashu

    TheMontashu Pourly Tatteued Jeu

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    Ya because there are hikers at the very bottom of the trail by were it turns into a paved road with houses, and the trail is quite wide there:rolleyes: I think you need to get more infromation before opening your mouth. From what it seems like you are not a mountian biker (I do not know that for sure), but you need to not judge mountian bikers based on how fast they are riding or how much "control" they have when you simply do no know what went on.
     
  32. Heath Sherratt

    Heath Sherratt Turbo Monkey

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    Dawn Patrol is key. You can pin it pretty much anywhere and feel safe because you're pretty much the only person out then. There are very few people out at 8-9am. That's my experience. I have had a few altercations though riding at other times of the day. Some people just need to hurt others I guess...sad.
     
  33. justsomeguy

    justsomeguy Monkey

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    Of course I have crashed in the past.

    When I crash, I don't claim to be "in control" as you claimed he was. Get it?

    BTW, I wouldn't describe cornering in a "two wheel drift" in the rain as "cruising" but that's just me.

    Now you kiddies are both really cracking me up. So folks that comment on your riding stories have never been on a mountain bike or aren't mountian bikers? Brilliant! Simply brilliant!

    JM will continue to be sensitive spot due to the large number people that use the park. In the past knobs on DH bikes dressed up like storm troopers riding like they're racing for the podium have made an especially negative impression on other trail users (to the point that they've become actively involved in trying to get bikes banned from the park). Riding out of control at JM isn't a good idea.

    Think about it.

    p.s. "I ride Chapperall hard, but still watch for hikers - what gets me is when they see me and don't move they proceed with facial gestures and sometimes profanity" is perfect a example of the clueless "mountain biker" behavior that will continue to paint all riders with the same negative brush.
     
  34. MVRIDER

    MVRIDER Monkey

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    Really? Was it like some theme day or something?

    :rolleyes: <-----btw,there's another for ya.
     
  35. sanjuro

    sanjuro Tube Smuggler

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    Half of the posters on this thread are over 30, and I know they are respectful, careful riders, even if they are wearing "gladiator wear". The others sound like kids to me, and do a mediocre job carrying the banner of the mountain biker.

    It is pretty obvious these trails are heavily used, and to bomb down one unaware is stupid. However, I am unsure what you might consider reasonable riding might be. Would under 10mph be reasonable? Avoiding Cinderella or Chaparrel? Wheels on ground at all times?

    Or just slowing down if there are other people on the trail?
     
  36. justsomeguy

    justsomeguy Monkey

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    Of course not. Just the typical full-blown DH kit as seen through the eyes of some pissed off hikers. Hikers who were pissed off enough to show up to Trails Working Group meetings in the interest of getting the trails closed down to us.

    (insert smarmy smiley here)

    The HOHA population is huge at JM so the best thing to do when encountering hikers/horsie folks is not only slow down but to yield, assuming they don't step off the trail first. This is really, really basic stuff but apparently (based upon this thread and hiker whining) it doesn't always happen.

    It's all about common sense. If you have decent sight lines let it rip. When you can't see around the next corner you need to reel it in a bit so you can be prepared to stop in case Becky and Bobby hiker have taken baby Brenden out for a morning hike and are in the middle of the trail that you've been railing.

    Alternatively, if you find that riding sensibly on busy trails cramps your style, head towards the ocean and hit Montara. The riding is much better than JM anyway...
     
  37. ghettogt76

    ghettogt76 Monkey

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    Sorry. I've never crashed at JM but I still ride TOTALLY out of control. I look like a storm trooper. I am sorry - next time I ride I will put zip ties on my brake levers so I cannot go over 3 MPH, so I will stay in control. :rolleyes:

    Remember - this is mountain biking. Sometimes crashes happen without us knowing it is going to happen. For exmaple, at northstar earlier this year, I went over the bars HARD on a section that I'd ridden a dozen times before without any problem. What happened? My foot slipped off my pedal and into my front wheel and I broke a toe. I was totally in control, then the next thing I know, I'm on the ground with my foot caught in my front wheel and fork (until the montashu helped me pry it out :D). Sometimes things are unpredictable.

    There is also a difference between riding agressively and riding out of control. I know the montashu personally and I know that he tends to exagerate (sp) a lot of stuff. I'm sure he wasn't 2 wheel drifting, I'm sure that he got too heavy on the front brake and washed out. Too bad we are not all "perfectly in control at all times" riders like you are.
     
  38. ghettogt76

    ghettogt76 Monkey

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    One more thing. While I agree that JM trails shouldn't be ridden :out of control", I don't see anything wrong with riding them hard/agressively. We have just as much right to ride down these trails as hikers do to walk up them.
     
  39. Heath Sherratt

    Heath Sherratt Turbo Monkey

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    Just some guy-Why would what you ride, how you ride or what you wear matter? As long as you are in the guidlines for riding in the forest none of those things should matter... from your original post you would appear to be an angry hiker in disguise. I'm curious as to what your motives are and why the hostility? I understand you think you are holding the wild youth of today accountable but your tone is hostile and repulsive, not inviting or inclusive. My experience is if you want people to listen you have to earn their ear. Internets don't really encourage that relational tie but you can still try.
     
  40. sanjuro

    sanjuro Tube Smuggler

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    TheMontashu exaggerate? He is the king of the Pinkbike 10 foot drop. Or ask him how much poon he got at his Jew Camp this weekend. Any number above 0 is exaggeration.

    When I passed him after the crash, it looked like he washed the front wheel out in a rut. Nothing more.