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Legal use of force

MikeD

Leader and Demogogue of the Ridemonkey Satinists
Oct 26, 2001
11,737
1,820
chez moi
And/or moral use of force---

Let's base a scenario on a real situation. An elderly man is sitting in a sandwich shop one evening; he's the only customer there. Two masked men, physically large, run in carrying guns openly and demand cash from the register. They're not pointing them directly at the man behind the counter, but are displaying them and gesturing with them.

If the man has a gun (surprise!), can/should he shoot them (if feasible)?

Now they point the guns at the clerk.

Again, can/should he?

Let's say he doesn't. They then turn on him and order him to stand up, which he does. Then they physically push him into the restroom and demand all he's got. Guns are present and pointed at him occasionally but not constantly. Can/should he shoot them (or try to) if he has a chance and it's tactically wise?

I know the actual legalities involved (and for once won't argue on strictly legal grounds)...more interested to hear what people think *should* be the moral/legal rights and wrongs.

MD
 

MikeD

Leader and Demogogue of the Ridemonkey Satinists
Oct 26, 2001
11,737
1,820
chez moi
It should be legal at any point in the scenario, but only if he actually states, "surprise, cockbags!" while drawing his gun.
 

sanjuro

Tube Smuggler
Sep 13, 2004
17,373
0
SF
Does it matter in what direction a robber points his weapon?

You might argue it for a police officer (as in the Dallas Cop/NFL Player), but a criminal brandishing a gun has upped the felony status anyway.
 

Silver

find me a tampon
Jul 20, 2002
10,840
1
Orange County, CA
Morally is justified in shooting at any time, as far as I'm concerned.

Now, if he kills the clerk accidentally because he's an inept shot, he's morally responsible for that as well...

(edit: I'm also assuming there is no twist here, like the store is owned by the mafia, the clerk is really a well known hitman and is behind the counter because he needs a job due to his parole conditions, and that the two gunmen are really taking back money that was extorted from their grandmother earlier in the day.)