Lehmen Bros
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- Start date
I hope I'm wrong, but what doesn't make sense is that the DJIA in going back up right now..
Yup, it's not even like the fed said "it's ok, we're not cutting rates because the fundamentals are strong enough to survive this", they said "we're not cutting rates because the risk of inflation is even worse..."
Not exactly what I would've wanted to hear.
edit: short squeeze?
edit #2:
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There was also a rumor of AIG getting bailed out by (someone? the fed? other banks?) before the end of the day, but in after-hours its stock is down 40%. I'd be really surprised if the positive feelings from today are extended into tomorrow.
haha what if the conservatives just pulled a hoover and went hands off with the economy, it crashed, and we got a new FDR
i need to weigh in here:
mccain has said "the fundamentals of our economy are strong", with a reference to GDP, low unemployment (when compared to europe or the u.s. in the past), and probably some other talking point you could inject here.
however:
if we did have a bona-fide strong economy, wouldn't that stand in stark comparison (or contrast) to what we have today?
mccain == sweaty diaper
mccain has said "the fundamentals of our economy are strong", with a reference to GDP, low unemployment (when compared to europe or the u.s. in the past), and probably some other talking point you could inject here.
however:
if we did have a bona-fide strong economy, wouldn't that stand in stark comparison (or contrast) to what we have today?
mccain == sweaty diaper
We the people of the United States... own the controlling stake of AIG!
I noticed on your profile you live in Orange, CA. Man you are in the heart of a lot of what was going on. Your local economy was thoroughly thrashed from what I read.
The only thing about your analogy that doesnt exactly sit right was that the consumers DO have at least some responsibility. The retard getting smoked at cards is kind of out to lunch whereas a lot of the people who closed these loans knew they couldnt pay them back. The brokers would tell me the consumers just expected someone would handle their loan. I'd have brokers tell me the attitude of their customers got steadily worse at the end. They would come in with crappy credit, no money down, no rent history, want 100% and want a stupidly good rate. And if a broker couldnt deliver the customer would find a broker/lender who would.
The brokers would also play the account executives off of eachother. After a while the products just got so aggressive (regarding lending guidelines and rates) it wasnt funny. The brokers and AEs were making so much money that there was little regard for ever saying "no" to a customer. Some lender would book the sludge if you looked hard enough.
Again, for a time it didnt matter. You could get in, have your value fly through the roof and then when the loan adjusted just sell and pay it off or refi and pull out some cash.
I'm not saying it was right, although it was clearly irresponsible. There is plenty of blame to throw around.
but but deregulation works... right...guys?
right guys?
right guys?
It is completely ridiculous, because if they properly regulated it, then we wouldn't be in this mess where the feds are somewhat forced to bail them out. At least you didn't say socialize the risk like some people on the talking head shows, makes me want to explode.
Well, yeah. Tons of blame to throw around at the loan companies, the real estate appraisers, the companies that securitized the debt, the companies that rated the debt, and the companies that sold the debt.
I'm not screaming for a bailout for the borrowers, either. But to pretend that the amount of blame is spread evenly is ludicrous.
It is. The good thing is that most of the people who were working in the mortgage companies as loan reps and associated other jobs who were making large salaries spent as if that was never ever going to change.
Most of those assholes are broke now, which is a good thing. There are a lot less BMW 7 Series on PCH cutting me off nowadays.
Funny little anecdote from a few years ago. I was studying at a local coffee shop for the cpa exam when I overheard a couple parents urging (arguing?) their kid to go back to school. He looked to be around 20 and he kept telling them how hot the mortgage industry was and so forth. He sounded like a douche-nozzle, trying to justify his position against his parent's sound judgement. Of course I eavesdropped, he was an idiot. Anyway, I saw him drive away in a 7 with 22s.
"Boiler Room" was based on a different industry but it was inhabited by the same short sighted creeps as the mortgage field.
I knew guys who were easily making 20k a month to pitch wholesale mortgage products to the brokers. Now 240k a year in western PA is like a kings ransom. The cost of living here is nowhere near as what it is in other parts of the country. Top sales people in other fields DO make 6 figures. I'm not judging whether that is warrented or not but it does happen.
Just recently I spoke to a buddy who is still in the industry and he said he knew his 20k months were ridiculous and it wouldnt last. But historically even in some of the tougher markets a mortgage sales person should still be able to make 40-60k. Some of these guys are now making basically minimum wage.
Not everyone in the mortgage industry is/was a crook. There certainly were plenty in there but as the garbage got flushed out a lot of decent people also went along for the ride.
I knew guys who were easily making 20k a month to pitch wholesale mortgage products to the brokers. Now 240k a year in western PA is like a kings ransom. The cost of living here is nowhere near as what it is in other parts of the country. Top sales people in other fields DO make 6 figures. I'm not judging whether that is warrented or not but it does happen.
Just recently I spoke to a buddy who is still in the industry and he said he knew his 20k months were ridiculous and it wouldnt last. But historically even in some of the tougher markets a mortgage sales person should still be able to make 40-60k. Some of these guys are now making basically minimum wage.
Not everyone in the mortgage industry is/was a crook. There certainly were plenty in there but as the garbage got flushed out a lot of decent people also went along for the ride.
http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/8058d308-84d3-11dd-b148-0000779fd18c.html?nclick_check=1
gee this is comforting...
Panic grips credit markets
By Krishna Guha in Washington, Michael Mackenzie in New York and Gillian Tett in London
Published: September 17 2008 18:23 | Last updated: September 18 2008 00:01
The panic in world credit markets reached historic intensity on Wednesday, prompting a flight to safety of the kind not seen since the second world war.
Barometers of financial stress hit record peaks across the world. Yields on short-term US Treasuries hit their lowest level since the London Blitz, while gold had its biggest one-day gain ever in dollar terms. Lending between banks, in effect, stopped.
EDITORS CHOICE
Full coverage: Global financial crisis - Sep-16
US Daily View: An extraordinary flight to safety - Sep-16
Editorial Comment: Changing the rules of the game - Sep-17
Roger Altman: Modern historys greatest regulatory failure - Sep-17
John Gapper: This greed was beyond irresponsible - Sep-17
Kenneth Rogoff: America will need a $1,000bn bail-out - Sep-17
Speculation mounted that the Federal Reserve, which refused to cut rates on Tuesday, could be forced into an embarrassing U-turn or might further expand its market liquidity operations.
The $85bn emergency Fed loan for the troubled insurance group AIG, announced on Tuesday night, failed to curb the surge in risk aversion. Instead, markets were hit by a fresh wave of anxiety.
One cause for fear came when shares in a supposedly safe money market mutual fund fell below par value or broke the buck owing to losses on debt in Lehman Brothers, which filed for bankruptcy protection on Monday. This raised the risk that retail investors in other such funds could panic and pull out their money.
All thought of profit was abandoned as traders piled in to the safety of short-term Treasuries, with the yield on three-month bills falling as low as 0.02 per cent rates that characterised the lost decade in Japan. The last time US Treasuries were this low was January 1941.
Morgan Stanley
Shares in the two largest independent US investment banks left standing Morgan Stanley and Goldman Sachs fell 24 per cent and 14 per cent, respectively, as the cost of insuring their debt soared, threatening their ability to finance themselves .
Morgan Stanley was holding preliminary merger talks with Wachovia, a troubled regional lender, and could approach other banks and look at other options in the coming days, people familiar with the situation said. Washington Mutual, another regional lender, has hired Goldman Sachs to contact potential buyers.
HBOS, a leading UK mortgage lender pressed into sales talks by the government after its share price halved this week, agreed to a £12bn takeover by Lloyds TSB.
A key measure of fear in the fixed-income markets - the so-called Ted spread, which tracks the difference between three-month Libor and Treasury bill rates - moved above 3 per cent, higher than the record close after the Black Monday stock market crash of 1987.
US authorities fired back with the Treasury announcing it was borrowing $40bn to give to the Fed to use for its emergency lending in essence removing balance sheet constraints on the size of this assistance.
One-month US Trasury bill yield
The Securities and Exchange Commission announced new curbs on short selling.
Some analysts have criticised US authorities for adopting an arbitrary approach to rescues - saving AIG, but not Lehman - that was impossible for investors to predict and therefore did not boost confidence.
The S&P 500 fell 4.7 per cent, led by a 8.9 per cent slump in financials. Equity volatility was near its highest level since March. The dollar fell against other major currencies.
Gold benefited from safe-haven buying, with prices rising 11.2 per cent to a three-week high of $866.47 a troy ounce.
Andrew Brenner, co-head of structured products and emerging markets at MF Global, said: It feels like no one wants to take anyones credit...it feels like we are on a precipice.<--prescient words of a certain monkey a few days ago?
Copyright The Financial Times Limited 2008
is it time to live up to my title?
should i kiss what little retirement i have good bye?
is this the end of the world?
gee this is comforting...
Panic grips credit markets
By Krishna Guha in Washington, Michael Mackenzie in New York and Gillian Tett in London
Published: September 17 2008 18:23 | Last updated: September 18 2008 00:01
The panic in world credit markets reached historic intensity on Wednesday, prompting a flight to safety of the kind not seen since the second world war.
Barometers of financial stress hit record peaks across the world. Yields on short-term US Treasuries hit their lowest level since the London Blitz, while gold had its biggest one-day gain ever in dollar terms. Lending between banks, in effect, stopped.
EDITORS CHOICE
Full coverage: Global financial crisis - Sep-16
US Daily View: An extraordinary flight to safety - Sep-16
Editorial Comment: Changing the rules of the game - Sep-17
Roger Altman: Modern historys greatest regulatory failure - Sep-17
John Gapper: This greed was beyond irresponsible - Sep-17
Kenneth Rogoff: America will need a $1,000bn bail-out - Sep-17
Speculation mounted that the Federal Reserve, which refused to cut rates on Tuesday, could be forced into an embarrassing U-turn or might further expand its market liquidity operations.
The $85bn emergency Fed loan for the troubled insurance group AIG, announced on Tuesday night, failed to curb the surge in risk aversion. Instead, markets were hit by a fresh wave of anxiety.
One cause for fear came when shares in a supposedly safe money market mutual fund fell below par value or broke the buck owing to losses on debt in Lehman Brothers, which filed for bankruptcy protection on Monday. This raised the risk that retail investors in other such funds could panic and pull out their money.
All thought of profit was abandoned as traders piled in to the safety of short-term Treasuries, with the yield on three-month bills falling as low as 0.02 per cent rates that characterised the lost decade in Japan. The last time US Treasuries were this low was January 1941.
Morgan Stanley
Shares in the two largest independent US investment banks left standing Morgan Stanley and Goldman Sachs fell 24 per cent and 14 per cent, respectively, as the cost of insuring their debt soared, threatening their ability to finance themselves .
Morgan Stanley was holding preliminary merger talks with Wachovia, a troubled regional lender, and could approach other banks and look at other options in the coming days, people familiar with the situation said. Washington Mutual, another regional lender, has hired Goldman Sachs to contact potential buyers.
HBOS, a leading UK mortgage lender pressed into sales talks by the government after its share price halved this week, agreed to a £12bn takeover by Lloyds TSB.
A key measure of fear in the fixed-income markets - the so-called Ted spread, which tracks the difference between three-month Libor and Treasury bill rates - moved above 3 per cent, higher than the record close after the Black Monday stock market crash of 1987.
US authorities fired back with the Treasury announcing it was borrowing $40bn to give to the Fed to use for its emergency lending in essence removing balance sheet constraints on the size of this assistance.
One-month US Trasury bill yield
The Securities and Exchange Commission announced new curbs on short selling.
Some analysts have criticised US authorities for adopting an arbitrary approach to rescues - saving AIG, but not Lehman - that was impossible for investors to predict and therefore did not boost confidence.
The S&P 500 fell 4.7 per cent, led by a 8.9 per cent slump in financials. Equity volatility was near its highest level since March. The dollar fell against other major currencies.
Gold benefited from safe-haven buying, with prices rising 11.2 per cent to a three-week high of $866.47 a troy ounce.
Andrew Brenner, co-head of structured products and emerging markets at MF Global, said: It feels like no one wants to take anyones credit...it feels like we are on a precipice.<--prescient words of a certain monkey a few days ago?
Copyright The Financial Times Limited 2008
is it time to live up to my title?
should i kiss what little retirement i have good bye?
is this the end of the world?
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Hijacked from someplace else
........................................
Now this story from last year is just too funny
http://www.reuters.com/article/fund...046902620070830
quote:
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NEW YORK, Aug 30 (Reuters) - Lehman Brothers has hired Jeb Bush, brother of the President of the United States, as an advisor to its private equity business, a source familiar with the situation said.
Lehman hired another relative of U.S. President George W. Bush last year--George Walker, a second cousin, who heads up the bank's asset management business.
Jeb Bush is the former governor of Florida.
Lehman Brothers declined to comment
What was Jeb's Role?
http://www.atlargely.com/2008/09/what-is-jeb-bus.html
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Lehman Brothers was founded in 1850. The firm managed to get through the Civil War, WWI, and WWII, the Great Depression, and the attacks of September 11, 2001. Yet after hiring Jeb Bush in late August of 2007, the firm suddenly goes belly up in a year. It also should be noted that in 2006, George H. Walker IV was also hired by Lehman Brothers.
Now, let's take a walk down memory lane, shall we?
Neil Bush: The brother of the current president, son of the elder Bush, and another do-nothing embezzler was part of yet another huge financial meltdown. This was known as the Savings and Loan scandal (S&L). From Salon:
Long before that, in the late 1980s, Neil Bush made bigger news for his controversial role as a director of Silverado Savings and Loan, which collapsed and cost taxpayers roughly $1 billion. (Federal regulators accused Bush of various conflicts of interests, but he was never charged. A civil suit against Bush and other Silverado officers was later settled for $26.5 million.)
Also from WaPo, a great summary of Neil's sleazy life, including the S&L scandal:
In the late '80s and early '90s, Bush embarrassed his father, George H.W. Bush, with his shady dealings as a board member of the infamous Silverado Savings and Loan, whose collapse cost taxpayers $1 billion.
Now back to Jeb:
From Mother Jones: Early Years, Medicaid fraud, his own S&L, and allegations of drugs:
After graduating from Texas University, Jeb Bush served a short apprenticeship at the Venezuelan branch of Texas Commerce Bank in Caracas before settling in Miami, in 1980, to work on his father's unsuccessful primary bid against Ronald Reagan. Campaigning for Dad was hardly a paying job. But Jeb was about to learn that being one of George Bush's sons means never having to circulate a résumé.
In the next few years, financial support flowed to Jeb through Miami's right-wing Cuban community. Republican party politics and a series of business scandals -- including Medicaid fraud and shady S&L deals -- were inextricably intertwined. A former federal prosecutor told MJ that, when he looked into Jeb's lucrative business dealings with a now-fugitive Cuban, he considered two possibilities -- Jeb was either crooked or stupid. At the time, he concluded Jeb was merely stupid.
.
. (Many scandals recounted)
.
So, might it be possible that Jeb has some serious questions to answer about what he did at Lehman Brothers, who his "clients" were, and so forth? After all, setting up a hedge fund to launder or embezzle funds seems to be a family specialty.
........................................
Now this story from last year is just too funny
http://www.reuters.com/article/fund...046902620070830
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
NEW YORK, Aug 30 (Reuters) - Lehman Brothers has hired Jeb Bush, brother of the President of the United States, as an advisor to its private equity business, a source familiar with the situation said.
Lehman hired another relative of U.S. President George W. Bush last year--George Walker, a second cousin, who heads up the bank's asset management business.
Jeb Bush is the former governor of Florida.
Lehman Brothers declined to comment
What was Jeb's Role?
http://www.atlargely.com/2008/09/what-is-jeb-bus.html
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Lehman Brothers was founded in 1850. The firm managed to get through the Civil War, WWI, and WWII, the Great Depression, and the attacks of September 11, 2001. Yet after hiring Jeb Bush in late August of 2007, the firm suddenly goes belly up in a year. It also should be noted that in 2006, George H. Walker IV was also hired by Lehman Brothers.
Now, let's take a walk down memory lane, shall we?
Neil Bush: The brother of the current president, son of the elder Bush, and another do-nothing embezzler was part of yet another huge financial meltdown. This was known as the Savings and Loan scandal (S&L). From Salon:
Long before that, in the late 1980s, Neil Bush made bigger news for his controversial role as a director of Silverado Savings and Loan, which collapsed and cost taxpayers roughly $1 billion. (Federal regulators accused Bush of various conflicts of interests, but he was never charged. A civil suit against Bush and other Silverado officers was later settled for $26.5 million.)
Also from WaPo, a great summary of Neil's sleazy life, including the S&L scandal:
In the late '80s and early '90s, Bush embarrassed his father, George H.W. Bush, with his shady dealings as a board member of the infamous Silverado Savings and Loan, whose collapse cost taxpayers $1 billion.
Now back to Jeb:
From Mother Jones: Early Years, Medicaid fraud, his own S&L, and allegations of drugs:
After graduating from Texas University, Jeb Bush served a short apprenticeship at the Venezuelan branch of Texas Commerce Bank in Caracas before settling in Miami, in 1980, to work on his father's unsuccessful primary bid against Ronald Reagan. Campaigning for Dad was hardly a paying job. But Jeb was about to learn that being one of George Bush's sons means never having to circulate a résumé.
In the next few years, financial support flowed to Jeb through Miami's right-wing Cuban community. Republican party politics and a series of business scandals -- including Medicaid fraud and shady S&L deals -- were inextricably intertwined. A former federal prosecutor told MJ that, when he looked into Jeb's lucrative business dealings with a now-fugitive Cuban, he considered two possibilities -- Jeb was either crooked or stupid. At the time, he concluded Jeb was merely stupid.
.
. (Many scandals recounted)
.
So, might it be possible that Jeb has some serious questions to answer about what he did at Lehman Brothers, who his "clients" were, and so forth? After all, setting up a hedge fund to launder or embezzle funds seems to be a family specialty.
Lehman Brothers Bankruptcy Examiners Report
http://www.zerohedge.com/article/presenting-lehman-bankruptcy-examiner-report
There is so much illegal isht going on here, it isn't even funny. Even I am surprised by the amount of illegal activity coming from all of the banks, including Lehman, and the complete blind eye turned by the Fed and SEC.
http://www.zerohedge.com/article/presenting-lehman-bankruptcy-examiner-report
There is so much illegal isht going on here, it isn't even funny. Even I am surprised by the amount of illegal activity coming from all of the banks, including Lehman, and the complete blind eye turned by the Fed and SEC.