Pedaling wastes alot of valuable oxygen/energy is certain scenarios.....That's what we are learning.....
Leogang Bratwurst Party Thread
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Bryceland and Minnaar hit that also.
Some austrian guy did as well.
Perhaps not, but certainly brings into question folk like Blenki who spins the pedals while in the air. Always thought it looks naff, does fuckall and just adds additional risk.
I always thought that was for stability in the air. In the same way twisting the throttle or hitting your front brake corrects your flight on a MX bike....
I haven't thumbed through the UCI rule book, but I'm not sure a "no pedaling" race run is even legal. I say that because I'm pretty sure proper race run etiquette is to hyperventilate at the start gate, go completely anaerobic approximately 10 feet out of start gate, charge into corners with 350% of the speed needed to actually negotiate a given corner (arms flared up in full racer mode), over apply brakes at the apex of corner, shittily skid a little bit, slog out of corner in your 11 tooth cog (arms/elbows now in fully exhausted, droop mode), try to make up for terrible riding by riding over your head in the next section, pray for a crash or flat/mechanical so you can quit with dignity. So by not being able to pedal, Gwin smashed all the corners and thusly did not need to 11 tooth slog out of them (i.e. cheating). I'd suggest a retroactive DQ, but failing that, at least a stern warning that riding like a preternatural boss will result in severe future penalties.
I should submit my resumè to UCI to become a rules official.
I should submit my resumè to UCI to become a rules official.
please do so someone can make tall enough start booths
Well maybe if a certain non-trade team would follow the rules on their jerseys, there would be enough money to make a taller booth!
Nah, I don't think it's that... could be entirely wrong though, just seems unlikely to me.
It's a stupid theory but I wonder if the tucking vs pedaling had a bigger influence because of the strong headwind. I know the pedally sections in leogang, I have spent over a month of riding there and those sections require pedaling even from average joes.Well to be fair, all suspension bicycles work better without a chain.
........just not supposed to SAY that when you're on the payroll
New demo w/ footpegs next year: "the gwinninator" or some shit.
More than anything this just tells me that all the bitching about leogang is what I thought it was.......needless whining. If you can win without a chain, that ain't no enduro course.
I was just looking over the geek stats for Leogang... and had a couple interesting thoughts. (well, interesting in my mind anyways!)
Gwin actually went fastest in sector 2, the one with the big long "pedal" in it. He was also fastest through the speed trap. that's pretty impressive.
Also, when was the last time there was no Brit on the senior elite men's podium?!
Gwin actually went fastest in sector 2, the one with the big long "pedal" in it. He was also fastest through the speed trap. that's pretty impressive.
Also, when was the last time there was no Brit on the senior elite men's podium?!
Clearly there must have been almost no wind when Gwin came down.
No wind + tucking = faster then headwind + standing pedaling
Were there athletes that were tucking and pedaling in there race runs? Guys like Macdonald were full throttle on the pedals just to clear the jumps.
Just remembered the run of Ratboy: He came in standing NOT pedaling. Might lost a few positions right there...
In other news:
Gwins mechanic after qualifying
No wind + tucking = faster then headwind + standing pedaling
Were there athletes that were tucking and pedaling in there race runs? Guys like Macdonald were full throttle on the pedals just to clear the jumps.
Just remembered the run of Ratboy: He came in standing NOT pedaling. Might lost a few positions right there...
In other news:
Gwins mechanic after qualifying
yeah if i remember correctly i remember seeing the tape not going ape chit for most of the other ridersClearly there must have been almost no wind when Gwin came down.
No wind + tucking = faster then headwind + standing pedaling
Were there athletes that were tucking and pedaling in there race runs? Guys like Macdonald were full throttle on the pedals just to clear the jumps.
Just remembered the run of Ratboy: He came in standing NOT pedaling. Might lost a few positions right there...
In other news:
Gwins mechanic after qualifying
Big S 2016 demo will feature a carbon frame with integrated foot rest, available in regular and goofy (that's 2 molds). comes with adapters for the drive train in case you want to pedal.
also the return of KONA to WC podium since FAB's days.
and commy's "moar chains" V4 dh bike also podiums.
also the return of KONA to WC podium since FAB's days.
and commy's "moar chains" V4 dh bike also podiums.
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Pretty cool!
There is absolutely no question that blenki would go faster if he would just chill the fuck out and ride a bike instead of trying to become a hamster. Every time I watch that dude race, I sit there and think "calm down spazz boy, you ain't seeing or pumpin shit right now"
As much as i agree with 100 percent of that, there has to be a real reason. He has to know, or be able to do something we cannot grasp. If he would do better without the gerbil nonsense, I would think he would
I once read a comment in PB by RC (please don't set me on fire for this!), regarding that air time and how hard is for some of us (I'm deliberately including myself -the three hugging king over here- in this pack) not to stiff the heck up while on it. He recommended doing something -like trying to moto whip, a lame x-up attempt or anything else- to distract your brain from the fact that you're out of your comfort zone. While it might sound stupid, it really helped me to improve my crash rate by maybe 2%.
I'm not saying Blenky suffers from my poor biking skills (hell, he wouldn't be where he is if he'd ride like I do), but maybe all that hysterical pedal strokes help him to better land a jump, or maybe he believes he'll come off the landings a lot faster.
idk who uncle dave is, but heres a good read
http://nsmb.com/how-did-gwin-win-with-no-chain/
"People have been talking a lot about Aaron Gwin’s chainless downhill win. Do you think there is anything to the theory that full suspension bikes perform better with no chain tension affecting their suspension performance?
Sincerely,
Hot for Gwin
Dear Hog:
Oh man. Thank-you Internet. This is a fairly technical question and Uncle Dave has some ideas, but thought it would be best to reach out to an expert on this subject. We asked a well respected, full suspension bicycle engineer, responsible for the design of countless kick ass, race winning bikes for comment. Here is what he had to say.
We have done a number of studies on this particular subject. We found that chainless bicycles are, in fact, slower – but only on flatter trails. (you could graph this out). We also found a direct correlation to speed and use of brakes, with brakeless bicycles being the fastest. This test was performed in China on a set of stairs recently.
So, from an expert, no, it doesn’t seem like Aaron Gwin won because his bike had no chain. But let’s dig in further.
Point #1 – Full Suspension Bicycle Design Science
Did you realize that many companies have put a tremendous amount of resources into designing their full suspension bicycles? It’s true. A large part of what they try to do is:
Point for Uncle Dave
Point #2 – High pivot idler bikes
Even though this theory doesn’t hold water with me, I’m going to help you with it. There’s a school out there that speaks reverently about high pivot downhill bikes with a “rearward axle path”. They’re amazing! You’ve never ridden a bike so smooth through the bumps! The interesting thing is that all of these bikes come with some kind of high mounted idler that essentially creates a zero chain growth suspension design. They’ve engineered chain effects out, both the good and the bad. And what if these bikes perform so well not because of the “rearward axle path” but because of this total lack of chain forces? Shit.
Point for the Internet
Point #3 – Slapping chains
This one caught me by surprise, but there is actually some kind of pseudo scientific use for Vital and all their g-out project photos, other than providing a few minutes of time wasted at work gawking at downhill bikes looking strange. Check out this thread here. Yes, okay In this one here, under full compression, the chain does seem to be under tension. But the other 19? Chains slapping away. i.e. chains slapping away because they’re not under tension. No tension means no chain effects on the suspension. And this makes sense. What happens when you hit a big jump on your bike? Do you land and think about how quiet and serene everything is? Do you not eek out that last few millimeters of travel because your chain tension got in the way? Or does you bottom that sucker out while the chain bounces all over the place and make all kinds of noise? The forces that cause your bike to bottom out are far, far larger than the forces from your chain.
But Dave. It’s not under full compression that the race is won. It’s on braking bumps and other smaller stuff that the suspension really shines. That’s where a lack of chain really shines!
Really? Okay. The last time I skittered across braking bumps my chain jumped all over the place i.e. no tension and therefore minimal chain effects on the suspension. But I’m going to spot you one, Internet. You win this round. But what do you think this magical lack of chain tension that you’re only obtaining because I’m being nice gains you? Like a second a run? Two seconds? Never mind that race teams spend tens of thousands of dollars and man hours tuning their suspension to gain fractions of a second. If only those stupid idiots would realize there were seconds to be gained just by removing the chain."
http://nsmb.com/how-did-gwin-win-with-no-chain/
"People have been talking a lot about Aaron Gwin’s chainless downhill win. Do you think there is anything to the theory that full suspension bikes perform better with no chain tension affecting their suspension performance?
Sincerely,
Hot for Gwin
Dear Hog:
Oh man. Thank-you Internet. This is a fairly technical question and Uncle Dave has some ideas, but thought it would be best to reach out to an expert on this subject. We asked a well respected, full suspension bicycle engineer, responsible for the design of countless kick ass, race winning bikes for comment. Here is what he had to say.
We have done a number of studies on this particular subject. We found that chainless bicycles are, in fact, slower – but only on flatter trails. (you could graph this out). We also found a direct correlation to speed and use of brakes, with brakeless bicycles being the fastest. This test was performed in China on a set of stairs recently.
So, from an expert, no, it doesn’t seem like Aaron Gwin won because his bike had no chain. But let’s dig in further.
Point #1 – Full Suspension Bicycle Design Science
Did you realize that many companies have put a tremendous amount of resources into designing their full suspension bicycles? It’s true. A large part of what they try to do is:
- Minimize chain growth
- Minimize the effects of pedalling
- Utilize chain forces to counter some of the above effects
Point for Uncle Dave
Point #2 – High pivot idler bikes
Even though this theory doesn’t hold water with me, I’m going to help you with it. There’s a school out there that speaks reverently about high pivot downhill bikes with a “rearward axle path”. They’re amazing! You’ve never ridden a bike so smooth through the bumps! The interesting thing is that all of these bikes come with some kind of high mounted idler that essentially creates a zero chain growth suspension design. They’ve engineered chain effects out, both the good and the bad. And what if these bikes perform so well not because of the “rearward axle path” but because of this total lack of chain forces? Shit.
Point for the Internet
Point #3 – Slapping chains
This one caught me by surprise, but there is actually some kind of pseudo scientific use for Vital and all their g-out project photos, other than providing a few minutes of time wasted at work gawking at downhill bikes looking strange. Check out this thread here. Yes, okay In this one here, under full compression, the chain does seem to be under tension. But the other 19? Chains slapping away. i.e. chains slapping away because they’re not under tension. No tension means no chain effects on the suspension. And this makes sense. What happens when you hit a big jump on your bike? Do you land and think about how quiet and serene everything is? Do you not eek out that last few millimeters of travel because your chain tension got in the way? Or does you bottom that sucker out while the chain bounces all over the place and make all kinds of noise? The forces that cause your bike to bottom out are far, far larger than the forces from your chain.
But Dave. It’s not under full compression that the race is won. It’s on braking bumps and other smaller stuff that the suspension really shines. That’s where a lack of chain really shines!
Really? Okay. The last time I skittered across braking bumps my chain jumped all over the place i.e. no tension and therefore minimal chain effects on the suspension. But I’m going to spot you one, Internet. You win this round. But what do you think this magical lack of chain tension that you’re only obtaining because I’m being nice gains you? Like a second a run? Two seconds? Never mind that race teams spend tens of thousands of dollars and man hours tuning their suspension to gain fractions of a second. If only those stupid idiots would realize there were seconds to be gained just by removing the chain."
You've heard the guy speak right?
My uneducated theory, chainless is like riding xc on a single speed. You have to carry your speed and momentum as far as possible
You have to ride smoother and cleaner lines
Stay the fvck off the brakes
The most important thing gwin did was ride like he had nothing to lose. He had no chain, would anyone think they have a chance of winning with out one!! So he pushed the limits cause he has nothing to lose I'm guessing he would have been happy with a top 10.
If he crashed who would have thought
"Gwin just screwed himself out of a first place run!"
You have to ride smoother and cleaner lines
Stay the fvck off the brakes
The most important thing gwin did was ride like he had nothing to lose. He had no chain, would anyone think they have a chance of winning with out one!! So he pushed the limits cause he has nothing to lose I'm guessing he would have been happy with a top 10.
If he crashed who would have thought
"Gwin just screwed himself out of a first place run!"
Wonder how many other races would have still been won if the rider had snapped their chain, Danny Hart's world championship winning run in champery comes to mind, maybe Kovaric on 14 second advantage, too.
Certainly Gwins run is more impressive due to the massive pedaling section where he managed to gain time without a chain. Leads me to my tin foil hat observation, I still haven't seen footage of him on the steep wood leading to the critical flat right hander to uphill that so many great riders had issues with.
Certainly Gwins run is more impressive due to the massive pedaling section where he managed to gain time without a chain. Leads me to my tin foil hat observation, I still haven't seen footage of him on the steep wood leading to the critical flat right hander to uphill that so many great riders had issues with.
I think the next advancement in drive train technology will be a remotely breakable chain, which is safely jettisoned by a special derailleur spring. Once you get done with any pedaly sections, pop the chain and just let that fully active suspension work its magic the rest of the way. Maybe call it "Snap N Brapp".
When you were little Remember those toy cars that you would push back and fourth in the floor to get the wheels spinning then let go and they would take off across the kitchen floor?!
Gwin has that technology in his rear hub
Gwin has that technology in his rear hub
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