[cjcrashesalot]

I have a mostly stock Trek XC bike, and while it can climp steep, non-technical stuff well, everything else is totally sketchy. Going up tech sections, I feel like I can't properly maneuver the bike, it's hard to stick to my lines. On the descents, it feels like an endo waiting to happen, and cornering is not confidence inspiring. I took out another bike today on some XC trails, a P.2, and it made a world of difference. I could get up just about every tough section, and I had much more control/confidence on the downhills. It was tiring/harder to climb with, but it is also a 2:1 singlespeed, on Mountain trails at 9000 ft (with platform pedals, also). So, aside from the (drastically) different frame geometry, the only thing that really feels akward is the super long stem on the XC bike. My question is this: would a shorter stem really make that much of a difference on my XC bike? Not only in terms of handling, but also bike fit, etc. Thanks

 

[ioscope]

Shallow HA's are good for descending. Steep HA's are good for ascending. Sounds like you want the best of both worlds.

 

[Westy]

Shallow HA's are good for descending. Steep HA's are good for ascending. Sounds like you want the best of both worlds.

It is possible to find a happy medium somewhere. I like quick handling bikes but need somthing that can decend fairly well. I just go for bikes with steep head angles but try and run short stems on them, this can be tough depending on the TT length of your bike but if you can get your center of balance farther behind the front wheel downhills are much easier. Of course technique certainly helps.

Edit: Wider bars can also make a twitchy bike feel much more stable.

 

[GravityFreakTJ]

It is possible to find a happy medium somewhere. I like quick handling bikes but need somthing that can decend fairly well. I just go for bikes with steep head angles but try and run short stems on them, this can be tough depending on the TT length of your bike but if you can get your center of balance farther behind the front wheel downhills are much easier. Of course technique certainly helps.

Edit: Wider bars can also make a twitchy bike feel much more stable.

Westy makes a good point about the bars.I ran EC90's on my old hardtail and it was very twitchy but i liked the fast handling.You should look into trying some wider bars if possible.

 

[HarryCallahan]

There's a lot of things you could try short of getting a new bike. Shorter stem, wider bars, riser bars of various heights, all while staying in an overall aggressive cross country fit.

Does your fork have adjustable travel? Run it in a longer travel setting.

 

[Changleen]

Not sure if anyone in here made it clear that to change the feel of the speed of the handling, a short stem alone will help a bit, but actually won't change much. You need to make your head angle shallower. The best way to do this is to get longer travel forks.

Getting a shorter stem will make you sit up more on the bike and if you're into XC you might not like that.

 

[jacksonpt]

A shorter stem and narrower bars will help some with the twitchy-ness, but it will never feel like the P2. It sounds like you want more of a trail bike (relaxed geometry, especially the head angle) and less of an XC racer. Adding a longer travel fork will help some too, but it might screw you up elsewhere... more travel is nice, but it makes the front end higher, which can have a negative effect when climbing.

What fork are you using?

 

[Wumpus]

A shorter stem and narrower bars will help some with the twitchy-ness,

Both of those will make it more twitchy.



You may just need to learn to shift your weight forward when climbing. I scoot forward on the seat and hunch down a little to get more weight forward.

 

[jacksonpt]

Both of those will make it more twitchy.

How is that? The shorter stem will slow steering, thus slight movements by his upper body (arms/hands specifically) will have less effect. Logically (though I've never tried it), the same holds true for the bars.

 

[Wumpus]

How is that? The shorter stem will slow steering, thus slight movements by his upper body (arms/hands specifically) will have less effect. Logically (though I've never tried it), the same holds true for the bars.

You are making the circle the bars travel smaller so movement has a greater effect.

 

[cjcrashesalot]

A shorter stem and narrower bars will help some with the twitchy-ness, but it will never feel like the P2. It sounds like you want more of a trail bike (relaxed geometry, especially the head angle) and less of an XC racer. Adding a longer travel fork will help some too, but it might screw you up elsewhere... more travel is nice, but it makes the front end higher, which can have a negative effect when climbing.

What fork are you using?

I certainly would like more of a trail bike, but my recently built up DH bike has left me short on the cash. My current fork is just a stock Judy, with blown seals and little plushness. I realize it won't ever feel like the P.2, but I'm just looking for a temporary fix to make the rides more enjoyable.

I'm definitely not the XC racer type (though I do race some collegiate XC stuff), so great climbing ability and light weigh aren't a high priority. I guess I just need to experiment with fork height/stem length to find a more confortable medium (my fork definitely needs to be replaced anyways)

My bars are already relatively wide (at least compared to my cut down P.2 bars), so I'll probably just leave those alone. How different, would, say a 100mm fork with an 80mm stem (as compared to the current 80mm and 120mm, respectively) feel?

Thanks for all the replies so far

 

[Changleen]

I certainly would like more of a trail bike, but my recently built up DH bike has left me short on the cash. My current fork is just a stock Judy, with blown seals and little plushness. I realize it won't ever feel like the P.2, but I'm just looking for a temporary fix to make the rides more enjoyable.

I'm definitely not the XC racer type (though I do race some collegiate XC stuff), so great climbing ability and light weigh aren't a high priority. I guess I just need to experiment with fork height/stem length to find a more confortable medium (my fork definitely needs to be replaced anyways)

My bars are already relatively wide (at least compared to my cut down P.2 bars), so I'll probably just leave those alone. How different, would, say a 100mm fork with an 80mm stem (as compared to the current 80mm and 120mm, respectively) feel?

Thanks for all the replies so far

20mm difference on the fork alone probably won't make a huge impact, but combined with the stem, you might notice more of a change. Remember that the stem length might make it 'feel' a bit different, but only by actually changing the head angle of your bike will you actually effect a real change in the way your bike actually handles.

Maybe try a fork like a Marzocchi Marathon or a RockShox Psylo that have a considerable range of travel adjustment. That way you can literally dial the head angle (and travel) up and down dependant on how you want the bike to feel.

I was actually playing on a Marathon equiped Giant NRS last night, and the difference in feel between full travel (120-130mm?) and shortest travel (80mm) is massive. It probably changes the head angle by 3 or 4° at least.

 

[sanjuro]

The easiest way to check your bike geometry is to measure the Effective Top Tube as well as your stem length and compare the two bikes.

ETT is measured from the middle of the headtube to the middle of the seat tube extended along a horizontal line. The measurement in this picture is B2:

Assuming the seat on both bikes is centered on the seatpost, then you can get a quick idea on how far are you are extended on the bike.

The P.2 should have a shorter top tube than a Trek XC bike. But there is a lot to getting a slower handling bike, like a longer fork which also increases the head tube angle.

A good shop will be helpful here.