[bizutch]

Yes.

Paris, let me spell it out for you here. SEI Racing is riding Marzocchi forks here, so he has an unfounded bias towards the forks, and therefore is implying that your Manitou stops working the minute you install it.. ..when in reality, you and I know that it works perfectly fine.

Was that clear enough, bizutch?

Perfect....except that last part. We all ran Manitou a few seasons back. And at Snowshoe and Mt. Snow, we walked all four bikes up to their tent and had to complain that they were all seizing.

Based on that percentage, I moved on and won't look back at Manitou.

And be careful, riding any DH frame other than a Turner could result in irreparable impotency and loss of studliness. :love:

 

[teamkranzelbike]

I been on the Zoke bandwagon since 99. Got off once.....big mistake......


same here, big mistake. Despite whatever problems that have popped up, I have found Marzocchi to be the easyiest to maintain and most reliable forks I have ever used. I have had a few minor issues in the past, but they always tood behind their products!!

 

[Kornphlake]

That wrench is in ft-lbs, not inch-lbs.

It's harder to find one in inch-lbs, but the other thread had a lot of suggestions. In addition to the ones I pointed out there, McMaster's "dial gauge" series of wrenches looks pretty sweet for a *relatively* low price of $122... The Park 1/4" drive one looks pretty good and very cheap, too, but you'll probably have to special order all the 1/4" hex drivers for it.

You do know that all it takes to convert from inch pounds to foot pounds is to divide by 12 right? 70 inch pounds is just under 6 foot pounds... Any torque wrench with a 3/8 or 1/4 drive should be sensitive enough to read as low as a couple of foot pounds, they might not be super accurate at that torque but at least it gets you closer than hand tightening things.

 

[BigHit-Maniac]

Welp.... it's definitely apparent if they beefed up the drop-out where the pinch bolts are, this wouldn't be a problem.

After reading of the 2nd fork in a week doing this, I checked mine. Loosened em' all the way and just LIGHTLY tightened them (doing a 1-2-1-2 tightening order) on each leg.

*crosses fingers*

Let's hope Zokie hooks ya' up w/ some new Lowers.

-Matt

 

[bizutch]

I called Marzocchi one time and talked to Brian and said 'Hey bro, think you'll make it out to the East Coast Nat's to hang out? He said "No, why?" I realized why without him saying. Cause they don't need a tech truck at Nationals to rebuild the internals like Rock Shox or Manitou.

 

[MtnbikeMike]

That wrench is in ft-lbs, not inch-lbs.

It's harder to find one in inch-lbs, but the other thread had a lot of suggestions. In addition to the ones I pointed out there, McMaster's "dial gauge" series of wrenches looks pretty sweet for a *relatively* low price of $122... The Park 1/4" drive one looks pretty good and very cheap, too, but you'll probably have to special order all the 1/4" hex drivers for it.

I have that Park one, and it actually came with an adapter.

 

[Jeremy R]

Yes.

Paris, let me spell it out for you here. SEI Racing is riding Marzocchi forks here, so he has an unfounded bias towards the forks, and therefore is implying that your Manitou stops working the minute you install it.. ..when in reality, you and I know that it works perfectly fine.

Was that clear enough, bizutch?

Normally, I would totally agree with you on a comment like this posted by Butch. But this time, his comments come from experience. We ran Dorados
in 02 and had them freeze up like a pina colada. You could not have designed a better lockout. It only happened to half of our forks though so it was not all bad considering mine was not one of them.
But that was in '02, so I am sure they worked out the bugs since then, well, except for the 200mm version that's had more delays than a South Carolina snowstorm.
Last year, we did run 888's an entire year without problems (except for when I messed up a c-clip one time with my gorilla mitts mechanic style.)
But all in all, I know people who run all brands of forks without any major problems especially in the real world. But with e-riding, all kinds of problems seem to pop up.

 

[MikeD]

You do know that all it takes to convert from inch pounds to foot pounds is to divide by 12 right? 70 inch pounds is just under 6 foot pounds... Any torque wrench with a 3/8 or 1/4 drive should be sensitive enough to read as low as a couple of foot pounds, they might not be super accurate at that torque but at least it gets you closer than hand tightening things.

Yeah, and when your beam is reading in increments of 1 ft-lb, up to 75 ft-lbs, it's pretty hard to tell when you've hit, say 6 or 8 in-lbs...

 

[binary visions]

Normally, I would totally agree with you on a comment like this posted by Butch.

Alright alright, settle down, both of ya' - I was joking. Sheesh, you SEI guys are so damn sensitive

Don't tell me you guys are taking up a Jm-like crusade against Manitou now?

Joking aside, the fact is that you especially, Jeremy, were praising your Sherman Slider last year left and right. Hey, when you're sponsered, you're sponsered. Not that it makes you lie about products (though I'm sure some people do), but there's a reason companies sponser riders, and it's not for them to bash their products.

I was just pointing out where SEI's sponsership is coming from this year in a tongue-in-cheek manner. As you said, people run all kinds of forks with no problems, and certainly all of the brands have had plenty of issues.

 

[Paris]

As you said, people run all kinds of forks with no problems, and certainly all of the brands have had plenty of issues.

I second. I have a couple Zokes too, no problems--great quality forks and now finally light enough.

 

[Jeremy R]

Alright alright, settle down, both of ya' - I was joking. Sheesh, you SEI guys are so damn sensitive

Don't tell me you guys are taking up a Jm-like crusade against Manitou now?

Joking aside, the fact is that you especially, Jeremy, were praising your Sherman Slider last year left and right. Hey, when you're sponsered, you're sponsered. Not that it makes you lie about products (though I'm sure some people do), but there's a reason companies sponser riders, and it's not for them to bash their products.

I was just pointing out where SEI's sponsership is coming from this year in a tongue-in-cheek manner. As you said, people run all kinds of forks with no problems, and certainly all of the brands have had plenty of issues.

Oh yeah, I did like that Slider +. I liked it better than the Dorado and Boxxer that I had before. I am always honest about what I ride, but I have kept quiet a time or two here and there.
With our team of clownhillers though, it's not like we are getting paid or anything. We only send out resumes to companies that we want to ride for.
That has actually bit us in the azz a couple of times too. Like this year, we had always been happy with one of our main component companies, so we only sent out a resume to them. They ended up dropping most of their DH teams, because they could not keep up with supplies. So by the time they got back to us, it was already too late to send out anything to anybody else.
Sometimes loyalty will deliver a wahoo chop to your nutz. :nuts:
Oh well, live and learn.

PS Jm is in the process of sending me a "shock and awe" strategy to attack the other fork companies. It will include illustrations and mental toughness
techniques so I can keep going when everybody tells me to STFU every single day when I post about it multiple times.

 

[leprechaun]

My 05 looks to be just a little beefier on the inside edge of the dropout.
Honestly it in not a big change and i hope it is enough.Zoke floundered hard on this one.The bores should be shallower.Super easy fix!!!
I feel that the ones breaking are most likely older ones that could have lower castings from the same era of the leaky ones.The batch that are cracking could have density problems even though they are not leaking.I had a leaky one and it was like 10mm thick in that spot.
Anyone who has been having dropout failure care to mention how old they are?
I'm not sponsored by ANYONE anymore,i bought my Zoke after giving up on 'other' forks that were free.The 888 had some issues but it still has the best performance-to weight-to cost fork out there.
The guys at Answer are super cool and usa made(mostly) but performance is just not up to spec.
Fox-for those who can afford them-are going to rock the boat a bit i am feeling based on test rides i have had.But not nearly the CS that zoke has.Heck i couldn't even affford one! And i have had my 05 888 for the whole winter allready,Not that i have been able to ride a lot on it yet.
My .02 cents.

 

[partsbara]

And i have had my 05 888 for the whole winter allready,Not that i have been able to ride a lot on it yet.
My .02 cents.

same... mines been on my bike for 3 months and only seen about 2 days riding damn weather...

infact i ve spent more time working on my 05 888 than i have riding it

 

[MikeD]

same... mines been on my bike for 3 months and only seen about 2 days riding damn weather...

infact i ve spent more time working on my 05 888 than i have riding it

You should take it on a vacation to Oz. I'm going to NZ on 22 feb for a month or three and might hop over to Melbin to see the Grizza at some point...you should join us...

MD

 

[partsbara]

You should take it on a vacation to Oz. I'm going to NZ on 22 feb for a month or three and might hop over to Melbin to see the Grizza at some point...you should join us...

MD

no dice fella i m outta work at the moment... have fun in oz mate... don t drink any fosters... i m sure grizza will see ya right

 

[DHS]

My 05 looks to be just a little beefier on the inside edge of the dropout.
Honestly it in not a big change and i hope it is enough.Zoke floundered hard on this one.The bores should be shallower.Super easy fix!!!
I feel that the ones breaking are most likely older ones that could have lower castings from the same era of the leaky ones.The batch that are cracking could have density problems even though they are not leaking.I had a leaky one and it was like 10mm thick in that spot.
Anyone who has been having dropout failure care to mention how old they are?
I'm not sponsored by ANYONE anymore,i bought my Zoke after giving up on 'other' forks that were free.The 888 had some issues but it still has the best performance-to weight-to cost fork out there.
The guys at Answer are super cool and usa made(mostly) but performance is just not up to spec.
Fox-for those who can afford them-are going to rock the boat a bit i am feeling based on test rides i have had.But not nearly the CS that zoke has.Heck i couldn't even affford one! And i have had my 05 888 for the whole winter allready,Not that i have been able to ride a lot on it yet.
My .02 cents.

exactly how i feel,
sent off the 888 today. they need to see if its warrentable or not. but also sent off the avy for a tune up. so i'll have a good working bike when they come back.

 

[El_Chimichanga]

I think it was the other dude with the cracked 888 earlier this week that said they weren't going to warranty it.

I said they would let me know...he said it might be warrantied it might not...so I'll let you guys know what happens.

It should cost "over 150$" if the warranty doesn't pan out.

 

[DHS]

I said they would let me know...he said it might be warrantied it might not...so I'll let you guys know what happens.

It should cost "over 150$" if the warranty doesn't pan out.

thanks for the info, GOODLUCK!!!
maybe if they see a couple forks like that they'll feel bad and just fix them...

 

[Tootrikky]

You need a torque wrench to change a flat tire????

I think that's completely unrealistic, and frankly a lame excuss, for a poor design. You couldn't do that to a RS (threads strip/re-tap or helicoil/go ride) or a Manitou (inserts), but the supposed free ride king Marzhocci requires you to carry a torque wrench in your Camelback? Come on seriously!

 

[Zutroy]

When i see someone post a pic with broken lowers and they say they used a torque wrench them I'm going to worry, but so far everyone that's posted a problem says they haven't used one.

 

[Westy]

When i see someone post a pic with broken lowers and they say they used a torque wrench them I'm going to worry, but so far everyone that's posted a problem says they haven't used one.

I've broken my Marzocchi 888R twice now tightening the axle clamp bolts. The first time I was using a torque wrench set to the recommended torque. The second time I used a T handle 4mm hex turning with two fingers, alternating bolts. The foot of the fork leg cracked right across the holes. The bolts never felt like they were getting tight either. IMO there is just not enough material there to handle the stress after examining the broken off piece.

Has anyone else experienced this problem?

Mike

linky

 

[Zutroy]

You need a torque wrench to change a flat tire????

I think that's completely unrealistic, and frankly a lame excuss, for a poor design. You couldn't do that to a RS (threads strip/re-tap or helicoil/go ride) or a Manitou (inserts), but the supposed free ride king Marzhocci requires you to carry a torque wrench in your Camelback? Come on seriously!

Maybe that was something that wasen't thought about in the design. Wasen't the fork orginally aimed at being a light weight (for marzocchi) race fork?

 

[Tarpon]

I think it was the other dude with the cracked 888 earlier this week that said they weren't going to warranty it.

It was a general comment regarding the 888 pinchbolt problem.

 

[bizutch]

You need a torque wrench to change a flat tire????

I think that's completely unrealistic, and frankly a lame excuss, for a poor design. You couldn't do that to a RS (threads strip/re-tap or helicoil/go ride) or a Manitou (inserts), but the supposed free ride king Marzhocci requires you to carry a torque wrench in your Camelback? Come on seriously!

yet another tireless consumer creating another opportunity for Manufacturers to reinvent the wheel and give you a wrench free quick release, ultra light, triple crown, race/freeride/huck/jump/climbable that is undamagable and requires nothing more than breathe of life and no cognizant thought to take apart and put back together. :eviltongu

 

[binary visions]

yet another tireless consumer creating another opportunity for Manufacturers to reinvent the wheel and give you a wrench free quick release, ultra light, triple crown, race/freeride/huck/jump/climbable that is undamagable and requires nothing more than breathe of life and no cognizant thought to take apart and put back together. :eviltongu

Bizutch, your loyalty to Marzzochi isn't a bad thing, but that's not even remotely close to what he's stating. Are you being deliberately dense, or do you honestly and truly think it's reasonable that a dropout be so easily damagable as to snap right in half unless carefully measured with a torque wrench (and, apparently, even if carefully measured)?

 

[Kntr]

Its not just the torque that is important..... you have to tighten both bolts little by little. You cant just tighten one and then the other. You have to go back and forth in 1/4 turns. I change tires a lot on my 888 and have never had a problem with the 888 cracking. Mine is an early production 888.

 

[El_Chimichanga]

Just got a call from the Marzocchi tech working on my forks. Two week turn around my a$$!! I bet I'll have it back by Wednesday or sooner. They got it this morning and finished it at 5:15pm. Seriously, who is still at work at 5:15 on a friday? I mean BESIDES me.
Anyway, looks like he's only going to charge me for some small parts I asked to be replaced, and the clamps for taking the cartridges apart. No labor costs, no charges for replacement lowers. GOOD JOB GUYS. :love:

 

[Paris]

Bizutch, your loyalty to Marzzochi isn't a bad thing, but that's not even remotely close to what he's stating. Are you being deliberately dense, or do you honestly and truly think it's reasonable that a dropout be so easily damagable as to snap right in half unless carefully measured with a torque wrench (and, apparently, even if carefully measured)?

I sound like a broken record. I second. This problem is a design fault, torque wrench? Who uses those on drop outs when they change a flat on the trail?

Most of us use the "tight" method and drop outs shouldn't break. Zokes aren't infalable, bottom line.

 

[thaflyinfatman]

You should take it on a vacation to Oz. I'm going to NZ on 22 feb for a month or three and might hop over to Melbin to see the Grizza at some point...you should join us...

MD

You're going to Melbourne? If so (and you're riding), PM me, I might be able to show ya round a few riding spots.

 

[DHS]

Just got a call from the Marzocchi tech working on my forks. Two week turn around my a$$!! I bet I'll have it back by Wednesday or sooner. They got it this morning and finished it at 5:15pm. Seriously, who is still at work at 5:15 on a friday? I mean BESIDES me.
Anyway, looks like he's only going to charge me for some small parts I asked to be replaced, and the clamps for taking the cartridges apart. No labor costs, no charges for replacement lowers. GOOD JOB GUYS. :love:

wow that is GOOD to hear. yea they said 2weeks turnaround. but maybe thats a MAX of 2weeks. well next week i'll see what they say.

 

[Kntr]

If you tighten them both up the same amount they should not break no matter how hard you tighten them, well, with in reason. They crack when one is tighter than the other.

Im actually surprised Zoke is replacing them free of charge. Now watch mine crack......

 

[BillT]

Has anyone experienced this with a 66 yet? Are the lower castings on the 888 and the 66 the same?

 

[Rik]

Zokes aren't infalable, bottom line.

Damn straight... people tend to overlook the problems the big M suffer whilst they bag out RS and the not-so-big m. Cracking stanchions, cracking crowns, casting issues, etc... but it's Rock Star suspension, so that's OK
PS, this is coming from someone that currently has 6 Marzocchi forks in his posession (mainly oldschool ones though), but is looking to jump ship when it comes time to purchase a new fork.

 

[Alloy]

Damn straight... people tend to overlook the problems the big M suffer whilst they bag out RS and the not-so-big m. Cracking stanchions, cracking crowns, casting issues, etc... but it's Rock Star suspension, so that's OK
PS, this is coming from someone that currently has 6 Marzocchi forks in his posession (mainly oldschool ones though), but is looking to jump ship when it comes time to purchase a new fork.

Yeah but Marzocchi's not rock star suspension because they look cool. They held so highly because they function near the best and almost never need maintenance. For 04 the 888 was a first run on a totally new design. Most new products have problems. It's not really fair to hold Marzocchi as a whole to something like that. Besides unlike some other companies who just let flaws go Marzocchi corrects them. For 05 they probably have already wiped this out.

I think once they show their customers how to tune 888s "By the way they should pay go-ride for their article, who knows how many bad reviews that saved them." it will be the most popular fork on the market. In fact they'll probably have to offer it in different colors or face losing customers because it's going to be so common. In some places it already is.

But then again a lot of customers are too incompetent to tune a fork no matter how well it's explained to them... who knows.

 

[binary visions]

For 04 the 888 was a first run on a totally new design. Most new products have problems. It's not really fair to hold Marzocchi as a whole to something like that.

That's kind of silly.

Yes, many new products have problems, but every other company gets nailed to the wall when their first year product fails, why not Marzocchi? Why does every other company get held to some higher standard? Manitou had a problem with the Nixon, and actually did a recall on them - which is far better than simply fixing the problem. Yet everyone rails on Manitou for it.

Products fail. As long as the company fixes it, that's the important part. However, they're still accountable for a design failure, first year or not.

 

[thaflyinfatman]

That's kind of silly.

Yes, many new products have problems, but every other company gets nailed to the wall when their first year product fails, why not Marzocchi? Why does every other company get held to some higher standard? Manitou had a problem with the Nixon, and actually did a recall on them - which is far better than simply fixing the problem. Yet everyone rails on Manitou for it.

Products fail. As long as the company fixes it, that's the important part. However, they're still accountable for a design failure, first year or not.

Agreed... it's not like this was their first fork EVER either, they've been making em for yonks. A problem is a problem.

 

[ioscope]

Casted parts shouldn't be bent like that anyway, especially Mg parts.

 

[Alloy]

That's kind of silly.

Yes, many new products have problems, but every other company gets nailed to the wall when their first year product fails, why not Marzocchi? Why does every other company get held to some higher standard? Manitou had a problem with the Nixon, and actually did a recall on them - which is far better than simply fixing the problem. Yet everyone rails on Manitou for it.

Products fail. As long as the company fixes it, that's the important part. However, they're still accountable for a design failure, first year or not.

I think it's pretty silly to say Marzocchi sucks because this one year they made a fork where a small percent of the dropouts broke. For some that might be reason enough to say the 888 sucks but the whole company?

 

[thaflyinfatman]

I think it's pretty silly to say Marzocchi sucks because this one year they made a fork where a small percent of the dropouts broke. For some that might be reason enough to say the 888 sucks but the whole company?

Pfft, mountain biking in general sucks because the 888s had problems.

 

[Rik]

I think it's pretty silly to say Marzocchi sucks because this one year they made a fork where a small percent of the dropouts broke. For some that might be reason enough to say the 888 sucks but the whole company?

Noone is saying Marzocchi suck, we're just saying that they're not the gods of suspension like people will say they are. The 888's are having dropout problems, yes, but what about the 03 DJ crowns, and 02's cryofit stanchions? They've had a few problems there too, but instead of making a big song and dance about it like everyone seems to do about RS and Manitou, it's shrugged off without a second thought.
All I'm saying is, they're not the be-all of forks, and as mentioned above, if it was any other company there'd be a mass boycott by e-bikers as they type up a frenzy about it all.