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Lets Discuss a Government Shutdown

Discussion in 'Politics & World News' started by Pesqueeb, Apr 6, 2011.

  1. Pesqueeb

    Pesqueeb bicycle in airplane hangar

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    Or even more interestingly, failure to raise the debt ceiling. :tinfoil:

    In Nov 95 I would have been 17. I don't recall much of what went on then, I was much too busy trying to get laid/river rafting. Was it really that big of a deal? My old man worked for the Park Service and I don't remember him spending any time at home, which is odd cause access for the public to the park (Sequoia/Kings Canyon) would have been shut off. Are there any "real" ramifications to a government shutdown? Separately, are legislators really going to let the US default on its sovereign debt?:tinfoil::panic:
     
    #1 -   Apr 6, 2011
    Last edited: Apr 6, 2011

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  2. stoney

    stoney Part of the unwashed, middle-American horde

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    Don't raise the debt limit, stop spending money. It's a simple concept.
    You don't dig yourself out of debt by spending.
     
    #2 -   Apr 6, 2011
  3. jonKranked

    jonKranked Press Button, Receive Stupid

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    they need to audit the defense department/pentagon. I'd be willing to bet they could cut costs by upwards of 40% just by finding efficiencies.
     
    #3 -   Apr 6, 2011
  4. jonKranked

    jonKranked Press Button, Receive Stupid

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    and i bet all those fvckos in congress will still be collecting paychecks
     
    #4 -   Apr 6, 2011
  5. BurlyShirley

    BurlyShirley Rex Grossman Will Rise Again

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    Longterm there will be no serious impact. It's just a bunch of political posturing.
     
    #5 -   Apr 6, 2011
  6. BurlyShirley

    BurlyShirley Rex Grossman Will Rise Again

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    Maybe you do if you're spending to build infrastructure that will give the economy a kickstart or a leg up. Not that I've seen a viable plan for that, but think about how effective building the interstates was for the economy. Perhaps green power?

    Anyway, Im with you on not raising the debt ceiling unless there's rock solid plan.
     
    #6 -   Apr 6, 2011
  7. amishmatt

    amishmatt Turbo Monkey

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    No, no. Dig up!

    I don't remember exactly what happened in '95 either, did the mail stop, gov. buildings close?
     
    #7 -   Apr 6, 2011
  8. jonKranked

    jonKranked Press Button, Receive Stupid

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    or maybe make some initiatives to encourage companies to bring manufacturing back domestically...
     
    #8 -   Apr 6, 2011
  9. BurlyShirley

    BurlyShirley Rex Grossman Will Rise Again

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    :rofl:
    Seriously, like what?
    Union busting? Cut more taxes?
     
    #9 -   Apr 6, 2011
  10. stevew

    stevew unique white person

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    republicans trying go big dick with with a black man....bringing the lulz....
     
  11. jonKranked

    jonKranked Press Button, Receive Stupid

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    burn down asia
     
  12. Westy

    Westy the teste

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    Marginalize the working class to the point where they are willing to work for less than a China-man or illegal immigrant..
     
    #12 -   Apr 6, 2011
    Last edited: Apr 6, 2011
  13. jimmydean

    jimmydean The Official Meat of Ridemonkey

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    fify.
     
  14. Jim Mac

    Jim Mac MAKE ENDURO GREAT AGAIN

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    This shutdown = total political theater. It's over nothing (much).

    This shutdown was way more serious:


    What I am more interested in is that Ryan's budget ideas - pretty radical, for better or worse, and it's being obscured by 'bad tan' Boeher & Bitch McConnel's posturing.
     
  15. rockofullr

    rockofullr confused

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    If that's the plan then prepare yourself for a serious sh!t storm.
     
  16. DamienC

    DamienC Turbo Monkey

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    You betcha! Maybe it's time we reconsider the 27th amendment.
     
  17. dante

    dante Unabomber

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    That's cute. You never got back to me on how / what we were actually going to cut to balance the budget...
     
  18. dante

    dante Unabomber

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    Of course they will, they get their primary paychecks from GE and Goldman Sachs, not the US taxpayer...
     
  19. Westy

    Westy the teste

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    Back in '95 I had a job offer from the Department of the Navy withdrawn because of the shutdown. If I had waited I could have gotten the position but I had bills to pay. The job I ended up taking paid a hell of a lot more but probably led me down a less desirable career path.
     
  20. sanjuro

    sanjuro Tube Smuggler

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    There are three ways to reduce the debt:

    1. Cut spending
    2. Raise taxes
    3. Spur the economy

    The first two do not necessarily make number 3 happen, the best solution of them all.
     
  21. BurlyShirley

    BurlyShirley Rex Grossman Will Rise Again

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    Attaching "lazers" and mines to dolphins does sound pretty desirable.
     
  22. Westy

    Westy the teste

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    Not too far off.
     
  23. MikeD

    MikeD Leader and Demogogue of the Ridemonkey Satinists

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    Ball gags and leather straps?
     
  24. Westy

    Westy the teste

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    Strap-ons and nipple clamps, Or maybe silent propulsion systems.
     
  25. MikeD

    MikeD Leader and Demogogue of the Ridemonkey Satinists

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    One ping only.

    And a lot of lube.
     
  26. JohnE

    JohnE filthy rascist

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    All I know is that if I dont get paid, I will be posting a few slightly used F22s in the RM Classified section..
     
  27. MikeD

    MikeD Leader and Demogogue of the Ridemonkey Satinists

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    What model year? The 2010s were flexy until the aftermarket CNC vectored-thrust swingarm made in Vancouver came out.
     
  28. stoney

    stoney Part of the unwashed, middle-American horde

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    Yeah I did, it's somewhere in PAWN. The big items were as follows:
    - cut defense spending by 50%
    - eliminate SS for those not currently in the work market (born before 1995)
    - cut life-time pensions/healthcare for Congress (this is more of a we sacrifice, you sacrifice)
    - reduce govt spending by 5% YoY, not adjusting for inflation (ie cuts with NO inflation adjustment +/-)
    - walk away from Afghanistan, Iraq, and now Libya
    - Cut the TSA, use military at airports instead
    - Move the military to the US borders to prevent illegal crossings and the future costs of those actions.

    That alone should make drastic cuts to future spending, while removing a front end overhead. Also, it's not about balancing the budget. It's about eliminating deficit spending and reducing our outstanding debt.
     
  29. dante

    dante Unabomber

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    (Searched for that post, couldn't find it)

    If you eliminate deficit spending so you can reduce our outstanding debt, you will have to balance the budget first...

    As for your ideas, everything but SS might get us 1/4 of the way to our 1.6T deficit. I have no idea what you're talking about by "eliminating SS for those not currently in the work market (born before 1995)". Are you claiming to get rid of SS for everyone that's retired? That's colder than I would have expected from you...

    Otherwise, good luck starting The American Revolution 2.0. The French might even have a couple guillotine they can let us borrow as the poor and middle class storm the upper class neighborhoods.
     
  30. stoney

    stoney Part of the unwashed, middle-American horde

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    Eliminate it for those who have not entered the work force. Take nothing from those who are paid in.
    And balancing the budget won't help. It's pretty simple, balancing an ever increasing budget (it increases 3% YoY iirc), will not help. Spending needs to be cut to the extent that our outflows are less than our inflows.
    As for revolution, what do you think is going to happen when the dollar collapses? Every country in history with a currency that has collapsed ended in either a tyrant or revolution. You make the call.
     
  31. dante

    dante Unabomber

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    I'll tell you what, we're far more likely to have a revolution from slashing benefits than our currency "collapsing". By "collapsing" I'm assuming that you're talking about a real collapse, in the Weimar or Zimbabwe sense of thousands of percent per year, right? Not the 2% we have now, or even the 15% in the late 70s. Japan has a national debt that's 3x ours as a percentage of GDP, and their currency is 40% stronger now than it was 5 years ago.

    Oh, and your plan to kick people off of SS who never worked would save us....... almost nothing. According to SS, you HAVE to have worked 10 years (40 credits) before you can start collecting, unless you were born before 1929. So yes, there are a few people out there who are old enough that are probably collecting SS after never working, but that's going to save us almost nothing.

    The only other possibility is spousal benefits or SSDI, and if you're talking about cutting those then you *are* pretty cold-hearted.

    Again, why are you dancing around the edges only cutting things that YOU want to cut. You're 30(ish). Of course you want to kick old people off of SS, because you're not old. You don't want to consider raising taxes because you make more than the median income in this country. You don't want to take care of the less fortunate because you are in the "more fortunate" camp. SS, Medicare, Medicaid, food stamps, etc are all social safety net programs. They are set up so that the poorest, oldest and weakest members of our community don't (hopefully) die homeless on a street corner somewhere.

    They are also set up so that the poor have a base level of economic support so that we DON'T have another revolution in this country. Economic collapse primarily leads to upheaval when there is a massive disparity in income. It's not when everyone's suffering, it's when everyone but the top 2% are suffering. THAT is when the barricades go up and people get out the guillotines....
     
  32. jonKranked

    jonKranked Press Button, Receive Stupid

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    tax the ultra wealthy.
     
  33. stoney

    stoney Part of the unwashed, middle-American horde

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    I agree with this. I've been looking at some of the capital extradition methods available through tax loopholes, and you need a VERY skilled lawyer to make it happen. However, you can move millions+ off shore with minimal taxation.

    The ultra wealthy need to be taxed at a higher rate, I do not disagree. I also believe that there should be some accountability between what C-Levels are paid vs their avg employee. Jack Welsh was paid 1.5mm at his peak when CEO of GM. How much does Immelt make?
     
  34. DamienC

    DamienC Turbo Monkey

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  35. Pesqueeb

    Pesqueeb bicycle in airplane hangar

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    This goes back to my second question that nobody seems to have addressed yet. What happens when/if during a government shutdown we bounce against the debt ceiling. Isn't there a real possibility of a collapse of the dollar?
     
  36. stoney

    stoney Part of the unwashed, middle-American horde

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    Not sure, but it surely can't be good.
     
  37. Pesqueeb

    Pesqueeb bicycle in airplane hangar

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  38. JohnE

    JohnE filthy rascist

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    Front Range, dude...
    Check back in a couple days...I will get some tail numbers. Gotta check w/ my suppliers.

    (JUST KIDDING IN CASE BIG BROTHER IS WATCHING...)

    (Sort of.)
     
  39. IH8Rice

    IH8Rice I'm Mr. Negative! I Fail!

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    Libya might be interested
     
  40. dante

    dante Unabomber

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    You realize it's economically impossible for the US to "pull a Greece", right? We have control over our own currency and can unilaterally set interest rates/monetary policy, Greece doesn't.

    Again, look at Japan. It has the highest Debt/GDP ratio in the entire world. It's Debt/GDP ratio is higher even than Zimbabwe. And yet, the Yen has strengthened from ~133 y/usd (from when I first started spec'ing Shimano parts in 2004) to below 80 y/usd now. Running up debt doesn't debase a currency, that's based on the debt-buyer's perception of the ability to pay it back. I might not lend a homeless guy $1 because I know I'd never get it back, but I might lend a hundred bucks to a businessman to keep his company running...