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Let's Gut Endangered Species when no one is looking

Discussion in 'Politics & World News' started by DRB, Sep 29, 2005.

  1. DRB

    DRB unemployed bum

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    http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/9531112/
    What happened to the fiscally responsible Republicans? You won't pay teachers but this? Its insane.
     

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  2. Inclag

    Inclag Turbo Monkey

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    That is pretty crazy.
     
  3. Tenchiro

    Tenchiro Attention K Mart Shoppers

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    Hooray for the (partial) restoration of private property rights in this coutry! The endangered species act has done far more harm to citizens rights than it has done good where endangered species are concerned.
     
  4. kidwoo

    kidwoo Celebrating No-Pants Day

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    It's like a sad, sad joke.

     
  5. DRB

    DRB unemployed bum

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    So should we eliminate all zoning ordinances as well? Or should the government pay you to adhere to them?
     
  6. Changleen

    Changleen Paranoid Member

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    That sounds so stupid. I can't believe there is no huge backlash.
     
  7. kidwoo

    kidwoo Celebrating No-Pants Day

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    You've heard about the mercury pollution "credits", the re-writing of methods in fish population tabulation, the raising of thresholds of groundwater contaminants, exxon execs writing air pollution protocol.........oh nevermind........
     
  8. Ciaran

    Ciaran Fear my banana

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    All that and we still have to have all kinds of studies and reports done to build a few bike trails at Mt.Baldy.
     
  9. DRB

    DRB unemployed bum

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    Hey maybe you'll get paid for it now.
     
  10. ohio

    ohio The Fresno Kid

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    Hey, paying teachers would just be throwing money at the problem... as opposed to this which is, uh, throwing money at land developers.
     
  11. Changleen

    Changleen Paranoid Member

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    More than wasting Human lives, destroying our planet is even more hideous. The fvckers who came up with these various pieces of legislation really deserve an axe in the face. Absolute Fvckers.
     
  12. Silver

    Silver find me a tampon

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    In the long run, we're all dead.

    Or, if you prefer: Jesus will come back before it gets really bad.

    So, you pick. With the people in power right now, you get the economists view, or the religious view.

    I'm surprised E.O. Wilson hasn't taken a swan dive off a cliff...
     
  13. Changleen

    Changleen Paranoid Member

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    I've choosen the NZ view. It is extremely disheartening that a major world power has elected to act in such a pathetic short sighted regressive and damaging way. It's not your fvcking planet, Bush.
     
  14. fluff

    fluff Monkey Turbo

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    Hey, isn't this government for business rather than for the people?
     
  15. GumbaFish

    GumbaFish Turbo Monkey

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    And exactly what information are you basing this on, becuase I am guessing probably nothing.
     
  16. Tenchiro

    Tenchiro Attention K Mart Shoppers

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    Zoning is a totally different situation. Because even if you buy a house and for some reason the area goes comercially zoned to make way for new development, you still have a valuable piece of property. While that would suck, you would still have the means to relocate elsewhere.

    Where the ESA is concerned, if you buy a piece of property to build a house on and it is found that a critter on the list MAY live there, then you are swcrewed. Because not only can you no longer build there but you now own a worthless piece of perperty because nobody else is going to want to buy it either.

    Right now there is a girl in Florida or somewhere in the south. She bought a parcel of property to build on. It was found that the scrubjay lives in her neighborhood, and because in that localized region the scrub jay is considered endangered she was not allowed to build.

    A couple of interesting tidbits though is that overall the scrubjay is in no way endangered. And on her parcel of land there were no nesting sites of this bird, but because they MIGHT one day nest there she got the shaft.
     
  17. Tenchiro

    Tenchiro Attention K Mart Shoppers

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    The fact that no matter what we do as humans the fact remains that one day ever single species that is alive now will no longer exist, including us.

    There will be new species, even similiar species of course. But the fact remains that almost every species of plant and animal that has ever existed is now extinct.
     
  18. fluff

    fluff Monkey Turbo

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    That's unusual logic. Given that every person alive today will die (and much sooner than most species will go extinct) but there will be another person along sometime soon to replace them why do we worry about killing each other?
     
  19. Tenchiro

    Tenchiro Attention K Mart Shoppers

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    We don't for the most part, at least when it comes to international conflict. While there are laws about murdering your own countrymen, doing so to people in a different country is quite a different matter.
     
  20. GumbaFish

    GumbaFish Turbo Monkey

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    I think its fair to say that I spend a lot more time thinking about wildlife issues then 99% of the people on this board. The problem isnt just that species are going extinct, it is the rate at which they are going extinct. Most species have gone extinct, yet that has been over an extremely long time scale, the problem is the alarming rate of increase of despeciation since the last ice age. Humans have had an extremely adverse impact on the planet begining with unprecedented losses of megafauna during the last ice age and continuing untill today. Animals on all the continents except africa didn't have the evolutionary benefit of coevolving with humans and when they were bombarded with a new species that had begun to master its environment in the form of fire and simple tools they couldnt adapt in time. There is a difference between the dinosaurs going extinct because an asteroid hit and mammals were better able to adapt to cooler and darker conditions and an animal today going extinct because we built a highway through every last part of its habitat range. For you to say they are all going extinct anyways and there is nothing we can do is short sighted and selfish. If we are aware of a problem and can stop a species from going extinct but don't act that is a grave misuse of all of the evolutionary tools we as humans have been given in the form of mental capacity. If you found out you could die from cancer ...but if you did certain things it could greatly reduce your chance of death or maybe even make you completely healthy again I highly doubt you would just say "i'm going to die anyways I'll just keep on keeping on". Also for you to imply that these species don'f influence human welfare is just plain igonorant. In the pacific northwest many salmon runs are extinct or on the verge of extinction due to damming and fishing and you think that is just a problem for animals? That is a problem for people, an economic problem for all of the people who fish, who can salmon, who have eateries that sell salmon. Or what about all of the plants and animals that go extinct that we never even know about, what if they contain cures for diseases and are now lost forever. But hey we are all going to die anyways it might as well be from a disease that we could have cured but were too damn stupid to realize we killed the cure.
    end of rant, I am now going to ride and blow off steam
     
  21. valve bouncer

    valve bouncer Master Dildoist

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    While you ride please take time to consider one word- "paragraphs". Thanks. :)
     
  22. Tenchiro

    Tenchiro Attention K Mart Shoppers

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    Anyways, mostly what this bill is about is applying the Fith Amendment to environmental laws. It does almost nothing to hamper the (in)effectivness of the law itself.