[johnbryanpeters]

...I was looking at

Dell Optiplex 745 Mini tower
Intel Core 2 Duo 2.13 GHz
Vista Ultimate
4 GB 800 MHz memory
80 GB 10,000 RPM hard drive
256 MB ATI Radeon X1300PRO video
Office 2007 pro
Norton

Which I can get for a hair over $2K...

What would be the argument for building an equivalent from piece parts and how much would it change the price?

 

[Kornphlake]

If you have to ask you're probably better off buying from Dell, if you can get a coupon or wait for a special you might be able to save a little more. Dell is usually pretty competitive with home built systems once you throw in the cost of an operating system and Anti Virus, I haven't bought a computer for about 4 years now so I'm not real sure how that price compares to what you could do on your own but I'm guessing you could save 15-20% if you build the computer yourself, unlike a Dell it might not work the first time you poke the power button though.

 

[binary visions]

Dell system prices are great. When you include the OS & software, it's tough to do it yourself for less.

The red flags for me, are the 10k RPM hard drive (there may be a good reason, but performance benefits are not that large, they're noisier and typically have a shorter lifespan - and for that, you pay $$ over a normal drive) and Norton absolutely blows, don't pay money for that piece of horse crap.

For giggles, I threw together a system on NewEgg.

Antec Sonata mid tower
Antec 450w power supply
4gb DDR2 memory w/ good timings
74gb Western Digital Raptor 10k rpm hard drive
512mb Raedon X1600Pro **better than what you spec'd
Intel Core2Duo 2.13ghz CPU
Gigabyte Socket 775 motherboard
Built-in 8 channel digital audio

$1,041.77 shipped to my house, with $50 in mail-in rebates.

Office Professional is $350. Vista Ultimate is $379. Total price, $1,720.77 after rebates. Still a solid savings. The benefits are primarily that you know what components are going into your box, and they're typically a little higher quality than the OEM stuff that Dell specs. The downside is that if you have a problem, you deal with the equipment manufacturer for warranty and you don't just box your machine back up and send it to Dell.

Do you really need Ultimate? That's quite a premium to pay. If you have an XP CD and don't mind jumping through the hoops of an install on your system, then installing Vista over the top of it, you can save $100 or so and buy the upgrade edition.

 

[binary visions]

Bump just to mention, I've seen the Sonata case and several sets of good quality memory, as well as various CPUs come up as good deals on www.bensbargains.net so you could probably knock a hundred or two off that price if you wanted to be patient and a good shopper.

 

[SkaredShtles]

<snip> Dell is usually pretty competitive with home built systems once you throw in the cost of an operating system and Anti Virus

Just for the record, AV costs $0... at least it should...

 

[Kornphlake]

Just for the record I've been using AVG for about a year now and really love it. I paid nothing. I could get NAV through my ISP but I don't want it ever again, I like having my memory for things I want to do. I agree, most people who have half a brain will not pay for anti-virus, half the people without half a brain will pay for anti-virus, the other half missing half their brain will think they don't need it.

Still I think it's a fair comparison to say that a full license of an anti-virus/spyware program should be itemized in the cost of a new system, if you were to build the exact same system you'd have to buy the exact same software for it to be the same, otherwise it's... different. Apples to apples, not apples to something that looks pretty close to an apple (great now the Mac junkies are going to flood this thread!)

 

[syadasti]

Thats not a good deal, get a system from Dell outlet if you want to save money and time vs. building it on your own.

Its fine you buy it with Vista for licensing, but I would downgrade to XP and let it mature a bit - your licensing allows this.

Do you do a lot of Office work - otherwise you can get away with Open Office for free or buy an OEM copy at the time of purchase for less at viosoftware.com

Why you need 4GB of RAM. Most applications won't use it - 2GB should be more than enough.

How about this (their selection of 745s isn't that great today):

XPS 410
(System Identifier: 097B8R1H)

* XPS 410 Mini-Tower: Intel Core 2 Duo Processor E6400 (2.13GHz, 1066 FSB)
* Genuine Windows Vista Ultimate

System Price : $939.00

Operating System
Genuine Windows Vista UltimateMemory
2 GB DDR2 Non-ECC SDRAM 677MHz (2 DIMMs)
Hard Disk Drive
250 GB EIDE SATA Hard Drive (7200 RPM)
250 GB EIDE SATA II Hard Drive (7200 RPM) (yes dual HDDs)
Video
256MB NVIDIA GeForce Go 7900 GS
Certified Refurbished
Certified Refurbished
Base
XPS 410 Mini-Tower: Intel Core 2 Duo Processor E6400 (2.13GHz, 1066 FSB)
Media Bay
16X DVD +/- RW w/dbl layer write capability
Software Upgrade
Microsoft Works 8.5
Hardware Upgrade
USB Keyboard
13 in 1 Media Card Reader
1394 IEEE Adapter Card
Dell Optical USB 2-button Mouse

 

[binary visions]

OpenOffice sucks.

And the Dell refurbs only have a 90 day warranty, do they not?

 

[blue]

OpenOffice sucks.

That it does, but the new office is an abomination.

 

[H8R]

OpenOffice sucks.

Unless you live in a bubble, then it's the shiz.

Other than that it's crappity crap.

 

[syadasti]

OpenOffice sucks.

And the Dell refurbs only have a 90 day warranty, do they not?

OpenOffice works fine for occasional use. I have it on my personal computer at home. Google Docs works OK too. Also its cheaper to buy MS Office from viosoftware if you really want it, like I said. Please tell me why someone who doesn't use Office all the time really needs to waste $100s on it...

Warranties for new and refurbished are the same - see here (under all systems include).

We still have 32 GX1 refurbished units in production - we bought them in 1999. In the past year I had to replace 1 HDD out of 32 units. If its a desktop most likely you won't have an issue unless its got some kind of flawed design.

They better replace them soon, I'm cheap but thats just dumb. I guess they don't realize productivity is more valuable than the cost of modern systems

 

[binary visions]

OpenOffice works fine for occasional use. I have it on my personal computer at home. Google Docs works OK too. Also its cheaper to buy MS Office from viosoftware if you really want it, like I said. Please tell me why someone who doesn't use Office all the time really needs to waste $100s on it...

Glad you know JBP's usage habits...

But I stand by my statement: OpenOffice sucks. As does Google Docs.

 

[syadasti]

Glad you know JBP's usage habits...

But I stand by my statement: OpenOffice sucks. As does Google Docs.

Well it seemed spec'd like a home machine with random upgrades here and there. Do you use Office all the time at home?

You still haven't explained why either sucks.

 

[binary visions]

Well it seemed spec'd like a home machine with random upgrades here and there. Do you use Office all the time at home?

You still haven't explained why either sucks.

Yes, I do use Office at home, quite frequently.

I don't think much explanation is needed. The functionality isn't there, period. The bugs, however, are. So are the performance bottlenecks. So is the incompatibility with complex existing Office documents.

I gave it a fair shot, it just doesn't provide anything more than very basic functionality.

 

[syadasti]

I'll give you the performance bottleneck from Java on OpenOffice, but he'd be running it on a new speedy machine. It opens, saves, and edits the average office document just fine though - if it is for home use I really don't see a big advantage unless thats one of the main purposes for having the computer at home.

The only document I've ever had problem were very complex (graphs did not display properly):

http://www.geocities.com/clary_mtb_info/

Also sometimes you have to move charts around but that takes two seconds. I've seen much more crippling bugs working with documents between version of Office work. Org. charts are a big issue between different version of Office.

Google Docs works fine on the go with smaller stuff.

 

[SkaredShtles]

Here's my take:

OpenOffice sucks
M$ Office sucks

I'd rather pay nothing for an app that sucks to be honest.

DISCLAIMER: I almost never use Office applications for anything. Occasional letters, financial spreadsheets, etc.

 

[johnbryanpeters]

Thanks for the advice.

- I use Office a lot, professionally and for my own purposes. The 2007 version was hard to get used to but I have gotten over the learning curve.

- I might consider using something other than NAV, primarily because it's a resource hog and their licensing model is arcane (we maintain three desktops).

- The last desktop I got has a 10K RPM system drive and a 7.2 K data drive; I'll allow that the 10K drives are noisy.

- I didn't kill drive size because Hilarie doesn't keep much data.

- One concern I'd have about a piece-built system is fan noise - fan noise with the Optiplexes is negligible except when you're really crunching data.

Still thinking...

- Ohyeah - on the upgrade from XP - I always start with fresh builds, hate carrying dregs of old O/S and other registry crud forward.

 

[syadasti]

Thanks for the advice.

- I use Office a lot, professionally and for my own purposes. The 2007 version was hard to get used to but I have gotten over the learning curve.

You should still buy it separately to save money. We buy from software viosoftware.com all the time - they have good prices and are an authorized reseller. 2007 Office SMB OEM is $257 with shipping. Obviously you'd go pro if you need Access, but its a pretty weak DB system.

- I might consider using something other than NAV, primarily because it's a resource hog and their licensing model is arcane (we maintain three desktops).

Are you running the corporate edition then? Its not so bad but you could do better. If its one of their consumer editions get rid of it ASAP.

- The last desktop I got has a 10K RPM system drive and a 7.2 K data drive; I'll allow that the 10K drives are noisy.

That makes sense - you could buy a 320GB HDD separately for less than $100. If you built it yourself you could use a P180 or P150 case, they are pretty quiet.

- One concern I'd have about a piece-built system is fan noise - fan noise with the Optiplexes is negligible except when you're really crunching data.

If this is for an office don't build it yourself (though you could still build a silent system if you really wanted to). An Optiplex (new or refurb) comes with 3 years of on site NBD support - hardware problems are much easier to handle.

- Ohyeah - on the upgrade from XP - I always start with fresh builds, hate carrying dregs of old O/S and other registry crud forward.

Of course you should wipe any Dell system especially if they install AOL or other crappy software you don't want. What I meant by downgrade is format the system and install XP on it - its mature and more suitable for an office environment at the moment. I don't think Dell or Microsoft makes any utility to downgrade Vista but consumer backlash has put XP back on Dell consumer machines again

 

[johnbryanpeters]

If you buy through Dell's small business channel, you don't get the crap like AOL. I want Vista, not XP, because my company's a Microsoft partner and I need to stay current.

 

[syadasti]

If you buy through Dell's small business channel, you don't get the crap like AOL. I want Vista, not XP, because my company's a Microsoft partner and I need to stay current.

So are we. If you buy refurbs you sometimes get AOL on the machines - its worth the discount though.

 

[johnbryanpeters]

Just for the record I've been using AVG for about a year now and really love it...

AVG Internet security with two year license for three computers, which is what I support at home, would run $99.95. I'm not sure what the difference would be between that and their free version.

 

[Kornphlake]

It's been a while since I looked into it, as I recall the difference between the free version and the paid version are tech support, scheduled scans (the free version does a scan daily,) and some bells and whistles that the average person would never use. There was another free antivirus out there that comes highly recomended that I never tried, it may have been Avast, I can't remember.