Mtb_Rob_FL said:
Who said everyone follows that law?
Obviously it isn't exact. Just like how the "torture" they used on those Guantanimo people was some people's wet dream.
Let's talk about why the concept of GOD makes no sense to me...
- Thread starter BurlyShirley
- Start date
Who said everyone follows that law?
Obviously it isn't exact. Just like how the "torture" they used on those Guantanimo people was some people's wet dream.
Yeah, that's where we're trying to go with M-Theory (and I hope we get there!), but essentially you're right - it seems there will always be 'the next big question' which we are forced to creep towards in the hope of one day arriving at the answer to - no doubt to be confronted by another. I feel it is intelectually lazy to just say 'ahh, it's god. Whatcha gonna do?' when we run up against such problems. I don't think it's to hard to accept we don't know something without feeling the need to explain it away with the supernatural.Westy said:
I think most humans have a inherent concept of bad and good.
It is our society which tells us what the make up of those concepts are though.
It is our society which tells us what the make up of those concepts are though.
How about this?
Philosophy, Science, and Religion are all like 3 people all traveling towards the same place, but from different directions, so they describe the journey in differnet ways. As they get closer and closer though, what they each see begins to have more and more in common.
makes you
Philosophy, Science, and Religion are all like 3 people all traveling towards the same place, but from different directions, so they describe the journey in differnet ways. As they get closer and closer though, what they each see begins to have more and more in common.
makes you
I'd like think that god is more like the Greek Gods.... none are all good and none are all bad.... and they have all the fraility of the human condition and love it!
I'll argue that while man initially developed they were organized into small family groups, but at some point it became advantageous to organize into larger groups. Since humans could not instinctively bond with those outside the family structure it was quicker to adapt by coming up with concepts of morality, religion, civility and to a point patriotism to make those larger groups successful. Adaptations in ideas work faster than imprinted instincts. I think you can apply concepts of darwinism to religeon. It could certainly explain certain religeous stands on family planning.N8 said:
The human condition is only 'frail' when held up against an impossible-to-achieve image of perfection. In reality emotion is a useful evolutionary attribute. And anyway as Westy (I think) pointed out, God apparantly has displayed anger/joy at some point. Which kind of shoots himself in the foot really...N8 said:
Changleen said:
That was me.
N8 said:
First off, I want to make this disclaimer before I wade into all these posts that went up between leaving work and getting home. My definition of God comes from the Hebrew Bible, so that's the point of view I'm coming from. Feel free to agree or disagree, you're more than welcome to - I will respect your point of view as I would hope you would mine.
And now on with the show................
One interpretation on The Name (Ha Shem in the Hebrew) is "I am who I am" in other words "you cannot control me by invoking my Name (and therefore my essence) as if I were one of your household gods."
Another is "I will be there with you" in other words God's presence in His creation - in Theology that is known as God's immanence.
Modern (Western) Christianity in it's, I believe misguided, history of taking an Eastern religion and thought process and trying to recreate it to fit our Western/Greek ways of thinking and doing things has I believe missed the point with how they understand God. Fundamentalist Christianity comes to mind that God only gets involved in His creation when He needs to bless or punish.
The problem with this mindset, is that according to the Hebrew Scriptures God is everywhere and as such is involved in every part of our lives. One rabbi I read says "everything from prayer to garbage is a manifestation of God" - from the Hebrew point of view.
The Greek focus on the being of God, and attempt to define Him with terms to "prove" His existence.
The Hebrew sees God as relational, not something you define with creeds or doctrine, but an experintial relationship.
Interestingly enough, no where in the Scriptures is God ever "proved" His existence is assumed.
And now on with the show................
This is what was so revolutionary in the begining of the book of Exodus, this God speaks to Moses and says that "He is" - not like those other. Notice His Name (which in classic Jewish understanding tells alot about and individual) is a verb not a noun - in the Hebrew at least.N8 said:
One interpretation on The Name (Ha Shem in the Hebrew) is "I am who I am" in other words "you cannot control me by invoking my Name (and therefore my essence) as if I were one of your household gods."
Another is "I will be there with you" in other words God's presence in His creation - in Theology that is known as God's immanence.
Modern (Western) Christianity in it's, I believe misguided, history of taking an Eastern religion and thought process and trying to recreate it to fit our Western/Greek ways of thinking and doing things has I believe missed the point with how they understand God. Fundamentalist Christianity comes to mind that God only gets involved in His creation when He needs to bless or punish.
The problem with this mindset, is that according to the Hebrew Scriptures God is everywhere and as such is involved in every part of our lives. One rabbi I read says "everything from prayer to garbage is a manifestation of God" - from the Hebrew point of view.
The Greek focus on the being of God, and attempt to define Him with terms to "prove" His existence.
The Hebrew sees God as relational, not something you define with creeds or doctrine, but an experintial relationship.
Interestingly enough, no where in the Scriptures is God ever "proved" His existence is assumed.
I can't say I've given that much thought.Changleen said:
Don't waste your time with Calvin, he had no idea what he was doing and only wanted to form a "club" type atmosphere for Christianity.Silver said:
We'll have to agree to disagree here.Changleen said:
I have as it is a doctrine of Mormonism, and it is absolutley ridiculous with respect to the Judeo/Christian idea of God and how He operate - which Mormonism claims to be a part of.Changleen said:
I can't speak for the Quran, but I can for the Torah and the Bible, with all due respect you incorrect in your assesment of God and His interference as defined by these Texts.Changleen said:
Read my first post to N8 about God's Name and the Hebrew understanding of God's immanence (precence amoung us).Changleen said:
Essentially that is the whole point of the New Testament, Jesus comes down, does His things, His disciples carry on His teachings and God "gives" them the Holy Spirit (God's Spirit dwelling in them).
The story of the Bible is not of a God who sits up in heaven and "zaps" people, its the story of a God who in Exodus wanted to "dwell in your midst" and in the Gospels wanted to walk amoung us as one of us.
Again, feel free to disagree. You're posts have been quite respectful (which I appreciate) and I hope this trend will continue. This however is how God is defined in the Judeo/Christian Text's as far as His interaction with His creation.
Good yes, evil I'm not so sure about - I've been wading through Talmud (the Oral Torah) when I get a chance on this (about 30 volumes of about 1000 pages a volume).Changleen said:
Well, as you know I'm not a Mormon, or religious at all really, and I think that the possibility of a advanced species being responsible for the creation of the universe is far more likely than any of your 'god' theories. Are you actually incapable of considering this idea without the confines of the rules of your religion? After all I find 'the Judeo/Christian idea of God and how He operates' 'absolutley ridiculous'.Andyman_1970 said:
Dismissing an idea having treated it only as a tennant of another religion and only because of your adherance to another religion seems somewhat... blinkered, don't you think?
Do you activly disbelieve in the tennants of science? In that other thread were you not saying a good christian should keep an open mind?
A Christian that wants to be true to the Text should keep an open mind - we as Christian are told to "test everything". So no I don't just float along in life and say "oh science, that's of the devil", I test it, I examine it, where I find truth (as opposed to Truth, notice the capitalization and lower case text) I claim it.Changleen said:
Again, you are more than welcome to that idea, and you are more than welcome to think the Judeo/Christian idea of God is ridiculous.Changleen said:
[note: if you'll notice my ridiculous comment was in reference to Mormonism and their doctrine.]
I'm not here to argue, "my dad's bigger than your dad". You're more than welcome to believe what you will, you have that choice. If you have a question or questions that is great, I'll be more than happy to answer them from the point of view I'm familar with. However, if you're asking questions to belittle me or my beliefs - I've got better things to do.
When I refer to "Truth" I'm referring to aboslute Truth in the theological sense.Changleen said:
Cool them I'm down wit dat........................Changleen said:
This is where those of us who are Jews, Christians, Muslims, Hindus and the like "take a leap". Other than faith I can't shed much more light on it than that.Changleen said:
Granted that's not a logical or scientific answer, but in your effort to understand my basis of belief.........there you go.
It's dinner time, I'll be back in a bit........................
As far as I'm concerned the truth is the truth, but anyway - 'theological truth' - it seems many philosophers have a problem with it in that essentially it lacks objectivity, and therefore reality, and therefore truth itself? Is theological truth in serious danger of being a 'lie you tell to yourself?'Andyman_1970 said:
I'm less concerned with Western/Greek thinking philosphers and prefer to spend my time reseaching the Eastern/Hebrew ideas of truth. Again, with the idea of Theology (the study of God) we run into the faith impass you and I have.Changleen said:
If you really want to know I'll be more than happy to share my story with you - however if it's going to be a dissection of my flawed logic or thinking then all pass.Changleen said:
I will say I have appreciated the tone of your post's Chang, it's refreshing.
Whatever wannabe robot.... emotions could very well be a key that could possibly grow us closer in understanding a relationship with a "higher power". Perhaps you are referring to a subsequent action or non-actions derived from emotion....N8 said:
i've thought this as well..... Just as life for an individual, the spiritual journey is always in motion, shouldn't it be same for mankind?-BB- said:How about this?
Philosophy, Science, and Religion are all like 3 people all traveling towards the same place, but from different directions, so they describe the journey in differnet ways. As they get closer and closer though, what they each see begins to have more and more in common.
makes you
Haha the first and possibly last funny post from Mack.mack said:BAD RELIGION
A good blanket satement and a good band.
Ok who wants to place bet that Andyman will "save" Changleen and will grow to love George Bush Jr. and love America.
300 to 1 odds. 
OK, Cool. I would like to read the story, especially a) wrt your schooling and b) especially the bit where you (if you?) decided religion was the most important thing in your life.Andyman_1970 said:
I promise I won't disect your logic. I might ask questions. But then I want to talk about Aliens.
I don't hate America... I just hate your moron leader and those who unquestioningly follow him. If I really hated America, would I hang out on US website full of Americans? I'd hang out on a.. I dunno, Iranian website... I could bitch about you behind your back.Skookum said:Ok who wants to place bet that Andyman will "save" Changleen and will grow to love George Bush Jr. and love America.
BTW Skookum I am highly dubious you have an internet connection on the Moon.
we :heart: New Zealand too.
So much that we will now attack you and take you over!!!! :evil: :dancing:
So much that we will now attack you and take you over!!!! :evil: :dancing:
Well, we did just discover a new huge natural gas field so I might start to worry, but I recon we could take you. We have way better guns than Iraq and you can't even finish them off.Skookum said:we :heart: New Zealand too.
So much that we will now attack you and take you over!!!! :evil: :dancing:
