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let's talk rear ends ....

Nick

Nick

My name is Nick
Sep 21, 2001
24,861
16,399
where the trails are
as in chainstays.

I was talking about my wish for shorter cs on my RFX, and I'm wondering if there are any quality rides with sub 17" (430mm?) stays that (a) don't suck balls and (b) won't explode on dirt or kill me. Honestly with the tire clearance I have that frame could have gone a bit shorter, but nothing to do about it now.

What say you, :nerd: of the interweb?
 
Mo(n)arch

Mo(n)arch

Turbo Monkey
Dec 27, 2010
4,459
1,457
Italy/south Tyrol
Nick said:
as in chainstays.

I was talking about my wish for shorter cs on my RFX, and I'm wondering if there are any quality rides with sub 17" (430mm?) stays that (a) don't suck balls and (b) won't explode on dirt or kill me. Honestly with the tire clearance I have that frame could have gone a bit shorter, but nothing to do about it now.

What say you, :nerd: of the interweb?
Click to expand...
Shorter then 430mm you say? The only option is Specialized I guess. Most others are 430mm or longer iirc.
 
Sandro

Sandro

Terrified of Cucumbers
Nov 12, 2006
3,228
2,541
The old world
The Canyon Strive has 423mm chainstays and the Kona Process has 426mm. I've only ridden the Strive, which is quite fun in the corners, but my personal sweetspot for CS length in somewhere between 430 and 435mm for an allround bike.
 
Westy

Westy

the teste
Nov 22, 2002
55,943
21,974
Sleazattle
I used a problem solvers eccentric BB to shorten the CS on my Yeti. It is pretty janky but works for me. Although only a minor change it really changed the personality of the bike.
 
slimshady

slimshady

¡Mira, una ardilla!
Dec 20, 2007
5,718
3,565
A long time ago, in a galaxy far, far away...
Orbea Rallón R4, 420mm :drag:. Spins on a dime, still pretty planted thanks to the roomy front end. I'm pretty particular about this, since I tend to share @Gary 's likes for short rear ends.

EDIT: I'm toying with the idea of adding a slackening headset. I heard Cane Creeks are a PITA on top of being expensive as fuck, and found a -2 SuperStar I'm drooling on.
 
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djjohnr

djjohnr

Turbo Monkey
Apr 21, 2002
3,109
1,799
Northern California
- 18 RM Altitude: Current trail bike. 425mm stays. Love the way it rides, but am dealing with a warranty issue that is dragging on way to long.
- 17 Knolly Delirium: Current big bike. 429mm stays. Great geometry, a blast descending. Climbs like a pig.
- 16 Devinci Troy: Former trail bike. 425mm stays. Fantastic bike, especially after I added a -1 degree angleset. New '19 model is slacker, I'd check it out. Replaced it with a Spitfire and always missed the agility of this bike, which led to me replacing the Spitty with the Altitude. Troy climbed better than the Altitude does.
 
Sandwich

Sandwich

Pig my fish!
Staff member
May 23, 2002
21,781
7,044
borcester rhymes
Just curious, but why do you want shorter chainstays? I know the turner/DW bikes tend to be very long, but what specific attributes are you seeking that you don't get with 430-440 stays?
 
jonKranked

jonKranked

Detective Dookie
Nov 10, 2005
88,636
26,884
media blackout
Sandwich said:
Just curious, but why do you want shorter chainstays? I know the turner/DW bikes tend to be very long, but what specific attributes are you seeking that you don't get with 430-440 stays?
Click to expand...
@HAB and i were chatting the other day about this. with a lot of modern bikes, as the reach is growing, the back end needs to grow correspondingly otherwise things feel unbalanced. (this was specifically in regards about putting a -2 headset in my megatrail)
 
Nick

Nick

My name is Nick
Sep 21, 2001
24,861
16,399
where the trails are
Sandwich said:
Just curious, but why do you want shorter chainstays? I know the turner/DW bikes tend to be very long, but what specific attributes are you seeking that you don't get with 430-440 stays?
Click to expand...
Well I don't want them necessarily but I've had other bikes that I could manual with less effort and never felt unstable with a bit of speed.
If I had to shorten up the bike I'd prefer to take 10-15mm off the rear end vs the front. At 5'11 I'm smack in the middle of a size Large. Maybe I'll try a 40mm stem, but that wouldn't be the 'right' fix, IMO.
 
jstuhlman

jstuhlman

bagpipe wanker
Dec 3, 2009
17,314
14,123
Cackalacka du Nord
i've noticed that i land on the back wheel a lot more on the nomad than on my old uzzi when jumping. not sure what the measurements were on the uzzi's chainstays, but i also moved from a 65mm stem to a 40mm stem. i feel like it's a bit easier to manual, but not that much (i suck at manualing, though, so take that fwiw). I'll be curious so see the difference if I ever put the size wheels on it that it's mean to run...
 
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Sandwich

Sandwich

Pig my fish!
Staff member
May 23, 2002
21,781
7,044
borcester rhymes
I'm just curious as to what the motivations are. I understand "flickability" at low speeds, and ease of performing sick skiddzzz at higher speeds, but I have ~17 on the DH bikes and 17.3 on the trail, and I would prefer longer on the DH and no change on the trail (maybe a little shorter, but again for east coast trickery).

Just nice to know what people are after, when they say they are after something. Bike geometry has so many moving parts....
 
djjohnr

djjohnr

Turbo Monkey
Apr 21, 2002
3,109
1,799
Northern California
Sandwich said:
Just curious, but why do you want shorter chainstays? I know the turner/DW bikes tend to be very long, but what specific attributes are you seeking that you don't get with 430-440 stays?
Click to expand...
I've found bikes with shorter stays but relatively equal total wheelbase (so longer front-to-center) to be quicker through tight corners. I've also found that shorter stays don't work well for me without the longer front end, as I end up moving back from the front wheel in steeps and wind up with too much weight behind the back wheel. If the front end is long enough I feel comfortable keeping my weight forward in the same situations. I wouldn't be surprised if body geometry plays into this - I have short legs combined with long torso and arms.
 
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C

Cerberus75

Monkey
Feb 18, 2017
520
194
djjohnr said:
I've found bikes with shorter stays but relatively equal total wheelbase (so longer front-to-center) to be quicker through tight corners. I've also found that shorter stays don't work well for me without the longer front end, as I wind up moving back from the front wheel in steeps and wind up with too much weight behind the back wheel. If the front end is long enough I feel comfortable keeping my weight forward in the same situations. I wouldn't be surprised if body geometry plays into this - I have short legs combined with long torso and .arms.
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I am with you in body fit. I have short 28" legs and for a trail bike I want the CS 16.5" or under. I have a lot of drops that are slow rolled because of a turn before them.

For a higher speed bike I'd still wouldn't want more than 17"
 
toodles

toodles

ridiculously corgi proportioned
Aug 24, 2004
5,824
5,201
Australia
I've got short corgi legs and my '18 Kona Process has 425mm (16.7") chainstays. I actually think they're a bit too short - would prefer 430ish. it took me awhile to get used to how easy it was to move the back end left or right, my lack of fine motor skills and finesse means a bike that responds to me being a total hack is probably more predictable and fun. It still works, but I'd probably be safer with the extra CS length. FWIW, I find the shock curve affects the manualability (werd?) more than just the CS length.
 
Gary

Gary

my pronouns are hag/gis
Aug 27, 2002
8,492
6,379
UK
@slimshady I do like short chainstays. but mainly because I ride hardtails with sub 400mm chainstays a lot. but I also switch between 5 different FS bikes with CS lengths of 410mm, 430, 438 and 444.
Longer chainstays definitely have their advantages too.
Hopefully this won't blow peoples minds but shorter stays aren't easier to manual. they're harder. a shorter chainstay makes holding the balance point twitchier but all other things being equal will take less effort to raise the front. As will a shorter reach or higher bars. or a higher BB.
toodles said:
I find the shock curve affects the manualability (werd?) more than just the CS length.
Click to expand...
No man. it's the rider who affects manualability.
 
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HardtailHack

HardtailHack

used an iron once
Jan 20, 2009
7,673
7,027
My last hardtail had 415-430mm adjustable stays and I put it at 415 because that was trendy, turned out it was a lot more capable at 430mm in the rougher stuff. The further you are from an axle the less feedback you get, it's obviously lessened on a dually but I would still for a dually with the same lengths as my current HT, it has 435mm stays and 468mm reach.
 
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