What do you think is light weight for hardtails and full suspension designs? Currently I have a 21.5 lbs GT Zaskar and I cannot help but feel that I can make it lighter, a lot lighter. Like down to the 19 pound range. What do you think? Maybe get some schwalbe fast freddie tires(400grams) and use Stan's notubes system. Maybe a sid sl over my 00' mars c. I don't know, but there seems to be much that can be done without hurting performance at all.
light weight
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Keith Bontrager once said: "Light, Strong, Cheap. Pick two." True words if you ask me. Personally, I'll take a slightly more durable product over light weight. I don't like my equipment to fail when I'm miles from home (I hate walking) and I don't want to ride conservatively for fear of breaking something. If you are a racer and have the cash, go for light weight. Otherwise, save your money. Just my $.02
BTW, 21# is pretty light for an XC bike.
BTW, 21# is pretty light for an XC bike.
R
RideMonkey
Guest
I race Expert on a 25 to 26 pound bike. Why? Cuz I gotta have these things:
1. Durable frame
2. Coil spring fork (heavy Atom Bomb in my case, no better fork out their)
3. Suspension Post
4. Tubeless Tires (I LOVE mine)
5. Bar ends (essential for LONG rides)
6. Time Pedals (certainly not the lightest, but easily the best).
I firmly believe that durability and performance are much more important than weight.
1. Durable frame
2. Coil spring fork (heavy Atom Bomb in my case, no better fork out their)
3. Suspension Post
4. Tubeless Tires (I LOVE mine)
5. Bar ends (essential for LONG rides)
6. Time Pedals (certainly not the lightest, but easily the best).
I firmly believe that durability and performance are much more important than weight.
I race expert XC on a Gary Fisher Sugar 3 that's about 24.5, of course that's after a ton of upgrades. It's plenty light for me and I love it.
THe other day at the LBS I helped a lady carry her bike (she had her hands full alread). She was bringing it in to have the tires changed out and put slicks on for a triathlon. Anyway, that mofo had to weigh at least 35 pounds, an old, old specialized bike of some sort. The moral, weight is important in racing, more so at the top level. But, for everyday riding, it's less important. Sure it's nice, but not that important.
________
Volcano digital
THe other day at the LBS I helped a lady carry her bike (she had her hands full alread). She was bringing it in to have the tires changed out and put slicks on for a triathlon. Anyway, that mofo had to weigh at least 35 pounds, an old, old specialized bike of some sort. The moral, weight is important in racing, more so at the top level. But, for everyday riding, it's less important. Sure it's nice, but not that important.
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Volcano digital
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Why coil?Originally posted by ridemonkey
I race Expert on a 25 to 26 pound bike. Why? Cuz I gotta have these things:
2. Coil spring fork (heavy Atom Bomb in my case, no better fork out their)
I've got 4 set's coming in directly from germany. Do you know a place here to get them?
R
RideMonkey
Guest
Cuz they are more plush than air AND I NEVER EVER EVER EVER EVER have to work on my forks!!!!!!!!
AWESOME!!!!
I had a coil (it was a crappie one admittedly) but my Manitou mars elite it the most awesome thing Ive been on. You can just smash over curb's and logs and **** with out any effort.
But the down side is having to have it pumped up and oiled every month.
Without knowing what componants you have on your bike, it is hard to say how much more weight you can lose. 21.5 pounds for a hardtail is pretty light. The lightest mountain bike I have seen has been in the 19 pound range, but the frame has a lot to do with it. I think the GT Zaskars have always been a little heavyier then other hardtail racing frames. And BTW, a SID SL is heavier then your MARS C. A SID Race is the lightest fork you can buy, but it only has 2.5 inches of travel.
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21 pounds is very light for a xc bike, Dude, I've ridden nice roadies that weighed that much!!! I prefer a hardtail somewhere around 24-26 pounds, I more confident on it, especially on the downhills. It seems to me that the bike will keep its momentum longer, and it dosent bounce around as much when it get hairy.....
As far as the schwalbe tires you can order directly from the company, but other thatn that I don't know of any American distributors for these. schwalbe tires
I have a 2001 GT Zaskar Team framset that weighs approxiamtly 1500 grams, which is pretty light. The build could be lighter in a few areas, I'll let you decide on where it can be lightened.
2001 GT Zaskar Team 16 or 16.5 inches
2000 Manitou Mars C
2001 Truvative Stylo Team(ISIS) crankset
Race Face XS ISIS BB
Avid Mag Brake Lever and Calipers
Easton CT-2 Handlebar
WTB Dual Compound Grips
Answer Orbit Stem(105mm by 0 degrees)
Thomson Seatpost(27.2 by 410mm)
WTB SST.X saddle(Ti rails)
Time ATAC Carbon pedals
XT shifter pods/rear derailluer/front derailluer/cassette(eight speed)
Sram PC-89R chain
wheels: XTR hubs laced 3-cross with Wheelsmith 14/15 DB spokes to Mavic X517 CD rims
Michelin Wildgripper Comp S tires
Avid Straight Jacket cables
Cane Creek ZS headset
And right now about a pound of mud. I really need to clean it.
Oh, and my road bike weighs 17.5 with pedals. I like light bikes because at 135 lbs I can get away with light parts, and because most guys I race against weigh about 40 pounds more and have bikes that weigh about 23 lbs. I want to keep roughly the same bike to body weight ratio as the others. And I have not sacraficed any durability for the low weight.
I have a 2001 GT Zaskar Team framset that weighs approxiamtly 1500 grams, which is pretty light. The build could be lighter in a few areas, I'll let you decide on where it can be lightened.
2001 GT Zaskar Team 16 or 16.5 inches
2000 Manitou Mars C
2001 Truvative Stylo Team(ISIS) crankset
Race Face XS ISIS BB
Avid Mag Brake Lever and Calipers
Easton CT-2 Handlebar
WTB Dual Compound Grips
Answer Orbit Stem(105mm by 0 degrees)
Thomson Seatpost(27.2 by 410mm)
WTB SST.X saddle(Ti rails)
Time ATAC Carbon pedals
XT shifter pods/rear derailluer/front derailluer/cassette(eight speed)
Sram PC-89R chain
wheels: XTR hubs laced 3-cross with Wheelsmith 14/15 DB spokes to Mavic X517 CD rims
Michelin Wildgripper Comp S tires
Avid Straight Jacket cables
Cane Creek ZS headset
And right now about a pound of mud. I really need to clean it.
Oh, and my road bike weighs 17.5 with pedals. I like light bikes because at 135 lbs I can get away with light parts, and because most guys I race against weigh about 40 pounds more and have bikes that weigh about 23 lbs. I want to keep roughly the same bike to body weight ratio as the others. And I have not sacraficed any durability for the low weight.
I don't think you could loose too much weight without some kind of strength/durability/function sacrifice. You could get a set of Hugi 240 hubs and DT Revolution Spokes with the same rims. That'll save a little weight but the rest of your stuff is good. You could shave a bit with a lighter saddle like a flight. Maybe a Ti bb for a few more grams. Light tires are the most noticable lightening "trick" though. And don't forget light tubes too. I'm about the same weight as you and I'm sure you rarely get pinch flats so Tubeless offers little benefit to us. The tubeless tires are generally heavier that a comparable tube tire and tube. There are some who say a tubeless rides smoother and faster because it lacks the friction of tube against tire, but I have no idea how much faster or if its more than a myth. I think If you weighed some of the World Cup guys bikes you'd find they weigh about the same as yours. Remember you can't win a race you can't finish because something broke.
Full suspension bikes for XC racing should only be about a pound more. Shocks are about 250 gms+- plus pivots and linkages.
Full suspension bikes for XC racing should only be about a pound more. Shocks are about 250 gms+- plus pivots and linkages.
The way I see it is.......light bikes are nice but are they performance enhancing?? what about that pound o mud you pick up on your tires on the trail (remember the theory of rotating mass) or the **** that sticks to your brakes drivetrain etc?? Havin a bike that is ultra light is good on paper but take it on the trail and all this changes! and what about the extra 2 pounds you could lose off your own body weight..does that make a difference??
Youve got a GT and a nice one at that...I ride the ti version and i think us GT owners are doomed to heavier bikes on account of that triple triangle design...you would think a ti bike would be light but no....so if you wants to make the bike lighter then a new frame might be an option and if you dont want to sacrifice that sweet ride well youre stuck with it...enjoy
Youve got a GT and a nice one at that...I ride the ti version and i think us GT owners are doomed to heavier bikes on account of that triple triangle design...you would think a ti bike would be light but no....so if you wants to make the bike lighter then a new frame might be an option and if you dont want to sacrifice that sweet ride well youre stuck with it...enjoy
everyone says that the GT is a heavy frame, or that GT stands for gross tonage. Instead, the frame weighs the same as a Specialized S-works M4 stumpjumper hardtail. Check this out: weight weenies .
I have the m4 stumpjumper comp hardtail. pretty sure it's the same frame as the sworks. I just moved out of a gtrebound(cromo it think it's 35lbs but that's just a guess) IT'S AWESOME!
as far as weight goes, there is not much of a comparision between an inexpension steel frame and a high end aluminium frame. As far as I know, the s-works frames are slightly different than the non-s-works frames. They are made of the same raw material, but I think they have a different butting than the others. If that isn't the difference than I don't know what is, but I know there is a slight difference between the two.
Places I see room for less weight:
lighter chainrings, derailluers, saddle, stem, grips, shifters, cassette, and ti + al bolts all around (especially the chianring bolts).
Places I see room for less weight:
lighter chainrings, derailluers, saddle, stem, grips, shifters, cassette, and ti + al bolts all around (especially the chianring bolts).
I usually try to take a massive sh*t before every ride. I also try not to drink anything for at least 12 hours before. Whoh needs that extra water weight? By doing this I figure I can save at least a half pound to a full pound.
Also notice that Ti and Al bolts were last on my list. You are right that the price for weight saved is not very favorable. But in a few spots it is: the chainring bolts and the crank arm bolts. I could also get a lighter seatpost.
Also notice that Ti and Al bolts were last on my list. You are right that the price for weight saved is not very favorable. But in a few spots it is: the chainring bolts and the crank arm bolts. I could also get a lighter seatpost.
I have a 20lbs HT with a steel frame. I never break anything, this year I´ll get the new Scott Scandium HT.
Hey novice, one good example of a light bike is nino´s s-works. I´ve seen and ridden on his bike and it doesn´t flex or anything.
Hey novice, one good example of a light bike is nino´s s-works. I´ve seen and ridden on his bike and it doesn´t flex or anything.
I was going to get an s-works myself, but I prefer the longer top tubes of makers like Gary Fisher and GT. I still wonder how light I can get my GT though. According to his website my frame isn't much heavier than his, less than 75 grams. Strakos, where do you think I can lighten the bike, and with what parts. Thanks
maybe the saddle and the seatpost, if you´re not heavy get a USE Alien post.
And you have to get rid of those pedals, sooo heavy. Or if you like the Time´s, you can get the Titanium upgrade kit(http://www.notubes.com).
You have to save a bit of weight eveywhere so that at the end you save a lot. Your grips are pretty heavy too, my wtb dual compounds weighted 90g. I got some Pedro´s that are light. I don´t like foam, but if you do you can get Titec Pork Rinds that are very light.
Also, if you aren´t heavy get a titanium Bottom Bracket.
Change your headset, maybe a 80g Tange Seiki from supergo.com
Dunno the weight of your cranks, but you can get the XT´s wich are lighter than the XTR´s.
Also, remove those viewers from the XT shifter, you´ll save some grams.
And maybe some specialized tires. The team master or dirt control sl, they weight around 425g.
I have an integrated headset so the tange is out of the question. The Truvative Stylo Team crankset that I have is lighter than the XT crankset. The XT crankset is lighter than XTR, but shimano, to keep the XTR above the XT, makes the XTR and XT spline pattern incompatable. This is of consequence because the XTR BB is much lighter than the XT, making the XTR crankset and BB combination lighter than the XT. I want titanium BB, but then ISIS splined BB have just come out, and I don't feel like being a test mule for these companies. Plus I just spent mucho dollars on a Race Face XS ISIS BB. I am considering running Stan's no tubes system in my wheels, but I don't know about that one. As far as tires goes, I will probably replace them in the spring with a schwalbe fast freddie in the back and a specialized tire in the front(cannot remember the make). I love my times, so they are staying. I am think of the carbon post, but I am not sure of that one yet. I am going to order the grips the next time I buy something online. Thanks
Hm...ok, then maybe you could drill some holes on your chainrings, that saves some weight.
I replaced almost all my steel bolts with Ti and Al bolts, where I managed to sabe a lot of weight. You would believe it.
Stans is a great idea, I used that before, now I got some crossmax UST wheels and use normal specialized tyres with latex, so I don´t have to get those ultra-heavy ust tyres.
If you don´t want to spend much you can´t do anything else I think. But if you have the money you could get a light stem from FRM or another company.
You should also change the saddle with a Selle Italia SLR wich is very light also. And it´s super comfy.
And you could change your rear derraileur to dura ace or something.
I sure wouldn't recommend skipping water for weight saving. In fact, drink as much as you can. It will improve and maintain your performance way more than the weight savings not drinking provides. Don't have the time to provide any links, but if you do a little research you'll see this isn't my $.02, but fact. Hydration is key.
you know what, I could save some weight by not wearing a helmet. I'm going to have to try that one. Wait, hold on, I've just had a revelation, if I ride nude, I can save even more weight. I could also shave down my tires so that I have almost no tread left. Hmmmm, what else could I do? I've got another one, I could have a surgical proceduer to remove part of my small intestine. From what I understand from biology class people have an incredibly long small intestine, I don't really think I need all of it, do I?
you could also remove your kidney...and you could sell it to buy some extralight parts for the bike
true dat, know any buyers?
Further ways to reduce your riding weight, body and bike for the big race
Bike
Set your Mtn bike uplike a track bike, IE no brakes and a fixed wheel drive train. mmm That could get interesting on the down hill sections of the course
Drill the frame, this was a big hit in road racing in the early 70s You could get a real light Ti frame with your Kidney money.
Body
I agree with the kidney part, isn't that why we have two.
Have your teeth remove and use false teeth, of course leave them out when your racing.
Give Blood a few hours before your race, that should be another 8-10 ozs
Shave all the hair off your body, decrease wind resistance when your riding naked.
Bike
Set your Mtn bike uplike a track bike, IE no brakes and a fixed wheel drive train. mmm That could get interesting on the down hill sections of the course
Drill the frame, this was a big hit in road racing in the early 70s You could get a real light Ti frame with your Kidney money.
Body
I agree with the kidney part, isn't that why we have two.
Have your teeth remove and use false teeth, of course leave them out when your racing.
Give Blood a few hours before your race, that should be another 8-10 ozs
Shave all the hair off your body, decrease wind resistance when your riding naked.
those are some pretty good ideas. But instead of just drilling out the frame, why don't I also get these parts:
the cranks(rings and arms), the handlebar, stem, fork brace for the brakes, the brakes(levers and calipers, cut the brake pads in half, drill the seatpost, the rear derailluer, front derailluer, shoes and pedals(including the cleats), I could also remove some spokes, and then drill the rims. That would probably get the bike weight down a bit. Thanks for the tips.
Starkos, where can one order FRM parts? I like the looks of nino's road bike frame and would like to see what else FRM offered in roadie frames. I kinda dented mine and am looking into replacemets, depending on cost though as mine is not completely destroyed, just cosmetically messed up. Thanks
the cranks(rings and arms), the handlebar, stem, fork brace for the brakes, the brakes(levers and calipers, cut the brake pads in half, drill the seatpost, the rear derailluer, front derailluer, shoes and pedals(including the cleats), I could also remove some spokes, and then drill the rims. That would probably get the bike weight down a bit. Thanks for the tips.
Starkos, where can one order FRM parts? I like the looks of nino's road bike frame and would like to see what else FRM offered in roadie frames. I kinda dented mine and am looking into replacemets, depending on cost though as mine is not completely destroyed, just cosmetically messed up. Thanks
Hmm....well, I really dunno, I bought mine in switzerland.
damn
I think there is a german site from that you can order, don´t remember the name.
Ask nino, he knows.
here it is...
http://www.hibike.de/
http://www.hibike.de/
I was restraining myself guys, I really was. But, since Mike started the ball...
Novice - if you really want to hit your target weight for your bike, ditch the shifters, derailleurs, 2 chainrings and the rear cogset. Go single speed. You can get the bike to where you want it to be and not spend all of your money on parts that are super light. And I don't want to hear any silly arguments like not being able to go fast enough, 'cause it just ain't so.
I already have a single speed. It is a 98 Gary Fisher Big Sur. I love it, but I am not in good enough shape to be anything close to competitive on it. This means that I must race on a geared bike for the time being. But I know what you are getting at, my SS is really light using mostly mediocre parts.
i just checked hibike.com and they don't seem to have a FRM parts listed. Maybe I am just not looking hard enough. I'll have to post something on that other board.