[_*sTiTcHeS*_]

And Hones are Hollowtech as well, they're very similar to XTs, just a bit stronger. The reasoning behind steel inserts is they're stronger and will prevent your cranks from twisting.

so hones are smaller, stronger, and cheaper than XTs. where have i gone wrong?

and aren't steel inserts just a washer that goes up against the crank arm where the peadal threads in? to protect from silly markings and stuff? thats what it looked like when comparing my saints with my xts but i guess i cant recheck because my bikes were stolen. sorry for the negativity but im in a "not happy" mood.

 

[Bicyclist]

No, the whole threaded part is steel.

 

[bizutch]

I can speak from experience as to why no steel insert is a BAD thing.
I smacked a pedal at Mt. Snow and it just torqued my pedal to ****e and back and the steel axle just gored out the aluminum guts of my crank arm.

I've crushed two pedals in much the same way since on cranks w/ steel inserts and my pedal axles snapped and left the crank unharmed.
Spare pedals or borrowed ones, I can get...cranks...not so easy to come by.

 

[Boxxer]

Read this thread, figured you guys might like this....

http://www.ridemonkey.com/forums/showthread.php?t=179707

 

[Udi]

so hones are smaller, stronger, and cheaper than XTs. where have i gone wrong?

and aren't steel inserts just a washer that goes up against the crank arm where the peadal threads in? to protect from silly markings and stuff? thats what it looked like when comparing my saints with my xts but i guess i cant recheck because my bikes were stolen. sorry for the negativity but im in a "not happy" mood.

Okay having thrashed various pairs of saint, hone, and XT cranksets I'll try and cover this.

XT's have no steel pedal insert, and no steel pedal washer. This means that when they take an impact (via your pedal hitting a rock/log/tree), the load is transmitted directly to the point where the pedal spindle sits against the crankarm. The general result of this is that the alloy compresses, allowing the spindle to damage/ovalise the threads in the arm. To add insult to injury, the arm will usually bend too - so you can kiss goodbye any chances of helicoiling.

Saints and Hone (M601-double) have a steel pedal insert instead of the standard alloy thread in the XT (the insert is one-time pressfitted at factory, and has large splines on it to stop it rotating), as well as a steel pedal washer. What the washer does is spreads the force over a larger area which will stop the crankarm from compressing and giving way under the spindle (which would allow the threads to be damaged), and just to be sure, the threads are hardened steel anyway - so there's no way you're going to strip them.

Now saints are heavy, so we can rule them out.
The M601 Hone and XT both have fairly similar size arms, and having weighed both cranksets myself the Hones are only ~25g heavier than the XT's.

Comparing the arms side by side, the Hone also tapers inwards less at the point where the XT's usually bend - which might be all it takes to stop the arm from bending. That sure was my experience after writing off a couple XT's and then thrashing Hones successfully for a while.

But most importantly - the pedal washer/insert combo spreads the load out and stops you from stripping the threads.

Hope that covers everything!

 

[Udi]

So that spacer is just there to keep water out of the bearings??

Yep.

A secondary reason is to make sure you space the BB correctly, because if you don't you'll either crush it or it won't seat correctly (depending on if you overspace or underspace). But that's really not an issue if you rtfm.. haha.

I have said it before and i'll say it again, 5 or 10mm is not going to make much of a difference in terms of ground clearance and clipping pedals. 10mm is the width of my fingernail on my pinky finger. Its more hypothetical gains then anything.

I think it'd make a bigger difference when you're cornering in rocky stuff, as to how far you can lean over before the pedal starts hitting stuff. 5mm lengthwise makes a bigger difference in how low you can lean (and depending on circumstance you won't always have your inside pedal in the ideal fully-up position).

At 13.6" (erring on too low for an 8" bike IMO) you're gonna hit pedals often regardless of crank length, but just in general I think you gotta understand that 5mm is a considerable difference when it comes to measurements on bike parts. It's 0.2" (rounded), think about a 14.2" BB vs a 14" BB, I think that's a noticeable difference. Same with CS length etc.

 

[bizutch]

so Hone's are lighter than Saints and Diabolus? They come in 83mmx165? heh..

 

[Udi]

By a fair bit - but obviously no 83x165

All this was only brought up because stitches mentioned running an XT crankarm on an 83x165 set of saints. I suggested if you WERE going to go to the trouble of doing that you'd want a hone arm instead, but the 165 makes it difficult anyway.

 

[Cave Dweller]

I think it'd make a bigger difference when you're cornering in rocky stuff, as to how far you can lean over before the pedal starts hitting stuff. 5mm lengthwise makes a bigger difference in how low you can lean (and depending on circumstance you won't always have your inside pedal in the ideal fully-up position).

At 13.6" (erring on too low for an 8" bike IMO) you're gonna hit pedals often regardless of crank length, but just in general I think you gotta understand that 5mm is a considerable difference when it comes to measurements on bike parts. It's 0.2" (rounded), think about a 14.2" BB vs a 14" BB, I think that's a noticeable difference. Same with CS length etc.

7.8inchs rear, 13.6 is fine.

Im not denying measurements make a difference, but the reason you can tell a difference between 14.2/14bb and 17.4/17.6 chainstays is due to the changes in forces and torques, mass and inertia distributions. Shorter cranks are good for less toque/higher rpm spinning, you can tell a difference with shorter cranks, but in my experience changing crank length makes minimal difference to clipping pedals.

 

[toodles]

damn a set of hones in 83mm would be fine... I'm back on saints after writing off 3 XT arms. The XTs were stronger enough to cope with the ugliest cases i could come up with but clip a pedal in a rockgarden and you can kiss them good bye. Steel insert Hones - mmm....

 

[KnightChild]

Dammit, didn't expect such a small weight-difference between Hone and XT...I could've saved a fortune AND had better cranks...

 

[_*sTiTcHeS*_]

thanks UDI for that excellent explination. very much appreciated. i rode my first rock garden yesterday and couldn't pedal. it wasn't steep enough. i only got 20 feet out of probably 100 of the whole thing.

 

[DHS]

i'll bet the eastern titanium bmx cranks are the lightest out there...you'd just have to buy a 6 7/8" ti spindle from profile in order to set them up for 83mm....should be around 650 grams

i just need to say, that these are by far, flex too much for me to want to ride them.
yes i have ridden them. and yes it was on a DH bike.

when i went from a steel spindle to a ti one on my profiles. i could feel the ti spindle flexing a little. but it felt fine. the easterns, when going thru a corner were terrible. this was on a brooklyn racelink. if the bike had say a e13 LG1 guide. wouldn't be surprised if you dropped your chain from too my flex..

 

[big-ted]

Right, time for some thread digging.

What's the deal with the FSA Gap's? The '07s talked about in here as being some of the lightest, but FSA's website hasn't been updated, and the '06s weren't available in 83mm, so the website tells me.

I'm not a weight-weenie, but I don't need something as masively overbuilt as Saints (nor do the vast majority of riders imo). My Hones (with inserts) absolutely RULE. I wish Shimano would make an 83mm version. For me, 165mm is desirable, 170mm is doable.

There have been several instances on here of industry insiders suggesting that manufacturers are about to wake up to this hole in the market. Fact or fiction? What options are there likely to be in the near future? This is rediculous people...

And yeah, I'm not running isis again. It blows...

 

[Ian Collins]

i just need to say, that these are by far, flex too much for me to want to ride them.
yes i have ridden them. and yes it was on a DH bike.

when i went from a steel spindle to a ti one on my profiles. i could feel the ti spindle flexing a little. but it felt fine. the easterns, when going thru a corner were terrible. this was on a brooklyn racelink. if the bike had say a e13 LG1 guide. wouldn't be surprised if you dropped your chain from too my flex..

damn that's too bad, but i'm glad i read this....thanks for the heads up.....

 

[downhillracer]

i bit the bullet and bought some middleburns. i am not light on kit and i have not been disappointed by them yet. they are very light and suprisingly stiff. no problems with interface or pedal threads. i will report back after the season and many whistler trips on how they have held up.

 

[big-ted]

i bit the bullet and bought some middleburns. i am not light on kit and i have not been disappointed by them yet. they are very light and suprisingly stiff. no problems with interface or pedal threads. i will report back after the season and many whistler trips on how they have held up.

Yup. I'm replacing my Middleburns. They lasted well, but I was forever replacing BBs, and after three years use the isis splines in the crank arm are dead. It's impossible to tighten them down so as to elliminate movement between the BB axle and the crank. Also, as I start to hit bigger and bigger stuff, they just weren't inspiring confidence. My Hones are quite a bit stiffer (though the Middleburns are by no menas flexy).

And before someone says, "but they have a lifetime warranty!" yeah, but it doesn't cover the splines or the pedal threads. Literally, it only covers bending/breaking of the arm itself.

Don't get me wrong. I'm dead pleased with the three years I've had out of them, but it's time for a change.

 

[snowskilz]

FSA gravity lite granks 165 448g
FSA Plat DH 83x128 310g w/bolts

Havent ridden them yet but had great luck with a like FSA setup last year.

 

[ÆX]

future of lighter cranks

http://www.bb30standard.com

the road cranks with bb and rings are at 580g!!!!

maybe at the show this year they will have mtb ones

 

[ÆX]

spez new road bike uses the 30mm bb also.

 

[Jonny5]

Spec had that last year on their tarmac SL. Boss had one, amazing bike. They are also playing with it on a few epics.

 

[Bikael Molton]

anyone know an online source of the new Gravity Lights in 165? The FSA site has them now, and i'd like to get a set asap.

thx
-rob in brooklyn

 

[woof]

Give em a call. I see them listed, but who knows.
http://www.go-ride.com/prod_cranks.html

 

[snowskilz]

The gravity lights are a 2008 model, based on prior fsa releases the cranks will be available next summer. (this all based on their release of the gravity 2 piece in 83 bb size)

 

[vpfree05]

So what is the deal with the OCT Holzfellers? I have read some rumors of defects and such. That worries me because i was going to run those on my new DHR.

 

[PJivan]

this is the lightest i think..525g including BB and 38tooth plus bolt off course

 

[bizutch]

looks like the worlds biggest bottle opener to me.

 

[Sam B]

anyone know an online source of the new Gravity Lights in 165? The FSA site has them now, and i'd like to get a set asap.

thx
-rob in brooklyn

Highly doubt that any mailorder will have them yet. You could special order a set from the local bike shop though... in stock for dealer direct or very soon with distributors.

Cheers!

 

[Dogboy]

Highly doubt that any mailorder will have them yet. You could special order a set from the local bike shop though... in stock for dealer direct or very soon with distributors.

Cheers!

Yay!

 

[seand]

Give Fluid Ride a call. I asked Jerry about them and he said that FSA had them in stock and ready to sell.

I am fighting myself right now to not order a set quite yet. Got other stuff that needs $$ attention first.

 

[Bikael Molton]

sweet - i just ordered some from gooo-ride! they should ship out this week.