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Listen up NORBA

Discussion in 'Downhill & Freeride' started by blt2ride, Aug 29, 2005.

  1. blt2ride

    blt2ride Turbo Monkey

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    NORBA should take a lesson from the ABA (American Bicycle Association). Less races, with more prize money for the pros. Here is a press release from the ABA, regarding their 2006 BMX season...


    The American Bicycle Association, with collaboration from many of the top professional athletes and manufacturers, is proud to announce an exciting new pro program for 2006 which features increased payouts per event and expanded year-end awards. The new pro series will feature a reduced fourteen race weekend series for the AA Pro, Girl Pro, Pro Cruiser and Veteran Pro classes to determine the #1 Pro in each division.

    Also new for 2006, the ABA Race of Champions held on Friday, the day before the Grand Nationals, will be included in the pro points chase. During the day, pros will transfer from the motos to compete in the qualifying rounds and main events, which take place at the ticketed Friday night Pro Spectacular/NAG 5 Challenge. The Race of Champions has never before been available for pro points in any of the above classes, and this change will add an exciting new aspect to the Pro Series.
     

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  2. I know sanjay

    I know sanjay Monkey

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    That should say something about soft track and haggard venues. ABA is a joke.
     
  3. fatcats

    fatcats Chimp

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    if the aba is so great why dont they put on races?? i saw some jeep king of the mountain slalom crap on tv yesterday... while it wasnt the most impressive thing, big name pros came out and won $$$ and SIRIUS stuff, not jsut a little medal
     
  4. stiksandstones

    stiksandstones Turbo Monkey

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    I do not know enough about the ABA to comment on specifics, but, I do hear the BMX guys complaining more than MTB guys. Sounds like the reason is ABA entry fees are very high and the cost to put on an event is very low-so ABA (Clayton John) is making out like a bandit.

    Correct me if I am wrong but last BMX race I went to (Del Mar 2004) the entry fees for a pro to race the weekend were about $300 (for pros), yes they are making a $G or 2 in prize money, but the event costs pale in comparison to a NCS. ABA has numerous events, classes, ages, just to make more and more money in entry fees, hence the reason a BMX national will run from 8am to 10pm sat and sun. I was told what Clayton/ABA make$ a weekend and the number was staggering.

    WHo knows, the new format the ABA is proposing is showing promise from a few and negative comments from many as well. Fact is though, with BMX in the olympics they really need to step it up, harvest some fast racers, make BMX more valid in the sporting world so they dont end up being a joke at the olympics.

    I have always said (and am always laughed at) that the BMX sanctioning bodies and USAC/NORBA need to work in unison, to build a solid relationship where BMX is our grassroots for MTB (it is rare that 5yr old kid will race a DH, but they DO race BMX)...where riders sort of graduate into MTBing as they progress-I have always thought it was a little ridiculous that 30yr old men race BMX. In Stikmans perfect world, you would race BMX, then at age 14 they graduate you into some MTB programs! hahaha

    I would love to see BMX and MTB events held together where the riders can watch each other, learn a little from each other, try the other sport out, vibe, etc (jesus christ, I sound like a tree huggin hippy).

    I remember the cactus cup in 93 or 94 and there was a BMX national held on the same grounds, it was so cool to have all the guys from both sports watching, riding, hanging-good times.

    Where is Rodney King when you need him?
     
  5. merrrrjig

    merrrrjig Turbo Monkey

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    I will be at the bmx nationals in pheonix at the end of oct. I wanna see how it is compared to a norba!
     
  6. blt2ride

    blt2ride Turbo Monkey

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    Dang, I didn't know that the entry fee for pros was $300, that's just insane! I'll be the first to admit that the ABA has its share of problems; the obvious being their greed. In addition, they have adopted some very strange rules over the last few years.

    Personally, I think the NORBA series would be a lot better if they put on less races and offered more at those races--that was kind of my point.

    Fatcat...I'm not too sure what you mean. The ABA puts on a lot of races, and they do offer prize money at every national. In addition, they do a pretty good job taking care of the overall #1 AA pro. The overall point winner will get a decent amount of coin, a car, a complete home stereo system from JBL, etc.
     
  7. stiksandstones

    stiksandstones Turbo Monkey

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    blt2ride-I got your point with the postin, perhaps I strayed a bit in my post. Remember the car 'they' give away, it is provided by Hyundai and has nothing to do with the ABA. And do not tell me the ABA worked in getting the hyundai deal because it was my ex-boss that brought Hyundai to the ABA.

    But I am in total agreement with frequency of NCS races. I have said time and time again, Have 1, 2 or 3 GREAT races instead of 5, 6 or 7 crap events. Heck I would settle for the Mammoth national championships once a year to be a no holds barred, lucrative, off the hook event.

    Time will tell what the future holds, the NCS could learn a few things from the ABA, hopefully it wouldnt be the greed.
     
  8. Jeremy R

    Jeremy R <b>x</b>

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    Ha, no doubt, it is like adult T-ball or Red Rover, Red Rover, send Stikman right over.
     
  9. blt2ride

    blt2ride Turbo Monkey

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    I hate to say it, but I think the only thing that NORBA would learn from the ABA would be their greed. I just don't understand why NORBA puts on all of these half-ass races. I agree with you 100%, they should only put as many races as they can afford to do right...
     
  10. bizutch

    bizutch Delicate CUSTOM flower

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    I still say it's the venue's skimping on the prize money. Anybody wonder why Diablo offers $5k to first for the US Open and Snowshoe has $5k for the September Mayhem race....but nothing for the National? Venues will skimp if the promoter lets them.

    I've already expressed to Sugar Mountain that NOBODY will come to her National event if there is not a BIG pro purse. I used the US Open as the benchmark...hopefully they'll get the hint. If you offer a $5k purse to 1st at a NORBA National, the industry considers your event legit and they show up for it and so do the riders. Generally, a venue has to have $100k in funds to be granted a NORBA National event in the first place....so $10k in pro purse is nothing to them if they're made to raise that money.
     
  11. vitox

    vitox Turbo Monkey

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    you know, i had never thought of it that way, very interesting line of thought indeed, thanks for that, ill keep it in mind maybe something can be done about stiks perfect world down here.

    cant understand the rodney king part though
     
  12. blt2ride

    blt2ride Turbo Monkey

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    Rodney King was a man who had a nasty run-in with the Los Angeles Police Department back in 1991. When the officers involved were acquitted of any wrong doing in a criminal trail, riots broke out all over Los Angeles. During the riots, the news asked Rodney if he had anything to say, and since he was a Mensa member, he said something very profound: "Can't we all just get along."
     
  13. profro

    profro Turbo Monkey

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    How about the NBL. My yearly liscense is $45 and its $4 per race (w/o trophy). Each race has at least 3 motos. Our track holds 2 each Saturday. It'd be cool to see a MTNx track do the same.
     
  14. blt2ride

    blt2ride Turbo Monkey

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    There really aren't too many NBL tracks in So Cal. They actually built an NBL track down the street from my house, but for whatever reason, it never opened up. The track was built at the Rocky Peak church, but it never opened, and there's never anyone there to talk to or get any information from. It looks like it would be a really fun track to ride on a hardtail jump/4X bike...
     
  15. Five

    Five Turbo Monkey

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    So how many DH'ers in here actually race BMX? I do - on a 20". ABA member.
     
  16. Cant Climb

    Cant Climb Turbo Monkey

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    If they dont feed some Nitrous into that lift engine things arent going to go well either.....
     
  17. renegade999

    renegade999 Monkey

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    Seriously, how many of you out there plan on attending Sugar next year?
     
  18. bizutch

    bizutch Delicate CUSTOM flower

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    it'll be taken care of...you ride at Plattekill right...where the lift is just soooo fast :rolleyes:


    Here's the trailmap for everyone to "peruse" 1200 feet of elevation drop from the top. The AMBC is run for the 3/4 station and Herndon and managed to clock 3:19 on it this year.

    The National will no doubt run from the top.
     
  19. Msisle Dad

    Msisle Dad Monkey

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    I said something in an earlier post about raising fees to produce a payout...Of course I got an earfull.....So you guys are suprised that BMX pro fees are so much? Do you think their payouts grow on trees? Raise the full pro fees to $100, put $45 in a pot 60 riders = $2700.. split it up how ever you like...Thats a start.. Then get Norba to hire a real marketing guy to work sponsors away from the usual subjects.
     
  20. Cant Climb

    Cant Climb Turbo Monkey

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    The elavation looks good enough.......i want to make the race, kinda of scared of the lift though. I've heard stories of 25 minutes....

    Pkill lift takes about 8 minutes to the top.....they have upgraded the motors since you've been there.....
     
  21. bizutch

    bizutch Delicate CUSTOM flower

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    Oh...their lift will straight moto in the winter....they run it slower in the summer....for tourists. The day of the AMBC race, they run it an "itty bit" faster. Where they shoot themselves in the foot the worst is just the way they scheduled the race day. 8am practice and a 10am race.

    I'm oging to work with NORBA to try to see if I can't land a "consulting" position or design position. Get this, I got word back from Woody Keen of IMBA fame (Loved or Hated but never disrespected) and he just built a "Black Diamond" trail for a resort in Idaho at Tamarack Ski Resort. I'm dying to find out what his "Black Diamond" trail is like, considering his trail background. His trail company has tons of equipment "TD owns 4 trail building machines and they are all a bit different (DitchWitch SK 500, Sweco Traildozer, Ibex machine from Italy etc). " and I'm trying to get Sugar to contract his company to upgrade their trail system. We'll see where that goes....
     
  22. heikkihall

    heikkihall Monkey

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    Plattekill doesnt host a National though do they? If I am going to travel all that way for a National I want to actually get some riding in. With the short practice times at Nationals that becomes impossible. Brian Head had a slow lift and I got about 5 runs on the course all week. I will not be going back. It took like 35 minutes or something to get up that damn lift. If you got on the lift at the start of practice then you had time for 1 run and that was it. I am not about to travel to North Carolina for that crap again. Even if practice times are extended it wont make sitting on the lift for hours a day any better. How are you supposed to actually learn a course if your practice runs are spread so far apart?
     
  23. bizutch

    bizutch Delicate CUSTOM flower

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    To everybody, Sugar told me they are going to work it out to get people good lift service and plenty of runs. Let me explain and the Jeremy, ProFro and the rest can slam away.
    Sugar has 2 double chair lifts that run side by side from the bottom of the mountain. For the AMBC race they only run 1 lift at a slow speed with a reduced staff on the secondary lift(labeled "E" in the above pic).
    The primary lift on the mountain (Labeled "D" in the above pic) runs really friggin fast in the winter and has a brand new engine. What will happen as far as how they work it out, I don't know. But, if it's any consolation, you can bitch and moan all you want for the next 10 months about it and pretend you know what 's going to happen.

    Come June 9-11, every kid with a freeride or DH bike from Virginia down to Georgia, Florida, Arkansas and Mississippi will be beating down the door for a chance to ride a lift at a national within driving distance...something NONE of them have ever gotten to do.
     
  24. Cant Climb

    Cant Climb Turbo Monkey

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    I'd love to make the national part of a NC vacation.....just get them to open up the throttle on that lift and all will be good.......keep us posted !
     
  25. profro

    profro Turbo Monkey

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    They can run that lift as fast as they want, but they can only hang bikes so fast. Without the detachable chair, I don't see them being able to speed it up that much. But if they do, when are they going to learn and practice? The first pro practice Friday morning?

    With as dated as Sugar is in regards to schedule, attitudes, race courses, etc, I see it being pretty ugly next June. But.... I'll be there. :)

    I'm guessing 2-3 runs per each 2 hour practice run depending on how many lines you look at on the way down.
     
  26. blt2ride

    blt2ride Turbo Monkey

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    I know where you're coming from, raising entry fees is one solution. However, $300 is a bit over the top. That would make it really hard for a lot of riders to hit all of the nationals--mainly riders who aren't a part of big teams...
     
  27. bizutch

    bizutch Delicate CUSTOM flower

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    took you long enough to chime in chicken little...
     
  28. profro

    profro Turbo Monkey

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    No seriously, how are they going to hang the bikes if they speed up the lift to "winter" speeds?
     
  29. thespackler

    thespackler Chimp

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    8 minutes? Thats bull****. It takes 7 minutes at Diablo which is 1040feet vs. 1100ft at plattekill. The lift ride at platte is over 10 minutes more like 12-14+ depending how many times it stops...usually stops 2-3 times per trip.
     
  30. renegade999

    renegade999 Monkey

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    I would be happy if NORBA would post results from Mount Snow.

    Any day now is fine. Whenever you're ready.
     
  31. SuspectDevice

    SuspectDevice Turbo Monkey

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    You can just DRIVE to the top of Sugar, so this whole debate is moot. I forsee lots of pirate practice... As a former Carolinian I know I'll make the trip down for Sugar. I think that an EPIC 4x course will probally get built there, with all of the local talent's input.
     
  32. profro

    profro Turbo Monkey

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    Are you serious? First off if the course goes from the top, there is no way to drive up that far and second there is NO way they will let 60-120 pro/semi pros shuttle that road which goes into the private parking of the hotel. Plus all the amateurs, there is no way.

    Yeah, I see what you mean. With all the local DH talent, the DH course has been really great and epic in recent years. :rolleyes:
     
  33. SuspectDevice

    SuspectDevice Turbo Monkey

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    Dude, you can't polish a turd of a DH course. But time and money buys dirt and diggers, so a little commitment could have SOME good gravity racing there..
     
  34. Msisle Dad

    Msisle Dad Monkey

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    I wouldnt suggest something so steep. Thats a fee that a bmx team pays for their rider out of team sponsor funds.

    What I do suggest is that pros should pay a good bit more than their amatuer counterparts and fund their own payout.. I bet there would be a few more experts and a few less pro's at Nationals.

    Also, as a matter of information, what podium finishing pro's complained about the lack of payout? I'm not sure Ive heard any...
     
  35. renegade999

    renegade999 Monkey

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    Who thinks the DH Amatuer classes st Sugar next year will have more or less riders than at Snowshoe this year?
     
  36. bigdrop05

    bigdrop05 Monkey

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    I plan on racing SUGAR next year for sure wet-or dry.
    Sport class.
    I am going to train real good this whole next year like a UFC fighter & try to have a good result next year.
    Never really trained seriously,so fitness is going to be 90% of it. I already know how to ride, i just can't apply those skills cause i'm too dam tired :30 seconds in it & give up because i am afraid of a heart attack or something ! :thumb:
     
  37. bigdrop05

    bigdrop05 Monkey

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    ---
    no doubt,
    I know i complained about the speed before,but i'm not angry or anything.I'm stoked they offer lift service for DH riders.But sucks just 1-2 months though :mumble: :mumble:
    It really works out fine if you practice all day & get 6 runs in.
    By the time you reach the top,you are rested up & sunburnt-gotta get that vitamin-d :D
     
  38. bigdrop05

    bigdrop05 Monkey

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    -------------------------------
    We have to motivate positivly for the "sport" .
    ""If you build it-they will come.""---right !?
     
  39. Jeremy R

    Jeremy R <b>x</b>

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    DH Expert 25-29 at Snowshoe this year had 14 riders in it.
    When I raced it last year they had 37.

    So yeah, I would say more, maybe.

    I am trying to be as optimistic as possible about this, considering the event is 2 hours from my home. But I am not gonna buff turd polish to everybody about the place. Unless they get a new lift, the other options are pants.
    The main lift Butch is talking about currently has no way to carry bikes, and even if they put hooks on it they can only run it fast enough so their workers can take the bikes off the back of the lift. This is not hating, this is simply facts.
    And I have snowboarded there in the winter and the lifts are just a little faster then.
    That said, IF they get the lift sorted, and IF they will listen to the RIDERS when it comes to the courses, then they could put on an awesome race. That mountain has the potential to have a sweet DH course if the time is put into it.
    And if all our old school slalom rulers get together on a slalom course, then if will be awesome for sure.
    As far as your guys traveling a long way and wondering if it will be worth it, I think it is too early to tell. Just ask me next spring, and I give ya the straight dope.
     
  40. profro

    profro Turbo Monkey

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    This past year knowledgable fellas (Butch, Jeremy, and Matt) spent some time extending the course ot the top. The new section had tons of potential and was awesome as is... Sugar in their forward thinking way shut it down after judging it to be to dangerous. I rode the section and that thinking shows how far behind the times the Sugar staff is to current DH courses. Now, they traveled to Snowshoe and were there for the National, so MAYBE, just maybe they are opening their eyes a little.