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Living off grid

eric strt6

Resident Curmudgeon
Sep 8, 2001
24,195
14,834
directly above the center of the earth
This brought back bad memories of freeze dried beef stroganoff having a war with my intestines in the middle of the night on a ski mountaineering trip in the Yosemite high country. Digging a poo pit at 2am in the snow in winter leaning on a snow shovel so you don't fall over and expelling the demon in your ass in zero degrees is not fun
 

stevew

resident influencer
Sep 21, 2001
41,045
9,983
Wranglerstar
i check his channel out from time to time....go back in his videoes where he was building a log cabin and had it stolen out of storage if i recall correctly....probably towards the beginning of his channel...
 

Jozz

Joe Dalton
Apr 18, 2002
5,997
7,611
SADL
Okay. That is problem number one. And if you've not even done any sort of taking care of a garden? Yeah. Look at that first.
It's not a problem, just an expense we have to take into consideration.
We've done the basic tomatoes and lettuce, cucumber and stuff like that, but nothing at a larger scale.
 

dump

Turbo Monkey
Oct 12, 2001
8,411
4,961
Youtube folks living off grid in California or PNW definitely have different challenges from those where it gets to -20C and lower regularly in the wintertime. Saw that guy in California and almost laughed/cried. Amazing trees, sun every day for 10 months of the year, etc.
 

Jozz

Joe Dalton
Apr 18, 2002
5,997
7,611
SADL
Youtube folks living off grid in California or PNW definitely have different challenges from those where it gets to -20C and lower regularly in the wintertime. Saw that guy in California and almost laughed/cried. Amazing trees, sun every day for 10 months of the year, etc.
The cold, I don't see it as a challenge. Securing enough electricity for common household appliances is my main concern, cause indeed solar panels covered in snow are useless. So they need to be accessible (free standing instead of roof mounted) for then to get cleaned. All major power hungry appliances can run on natural gas (water heater, dryer, stove, secondary heat source (after wood). Those eliminated the rest would be, hair dryer, washer, microwave, refrigerator, coffee machine, lighting, tv/htpc, laptop and phones.

One thing I have to look into is how to access good internet speed via satellites.
 

OGRipper

back alley ripper
Feb 3, 2004
10,720
1,221
NORCAL is the hizzle
Sorry if I missed it but will you have natural gas available or are you thinking propane?

In my experience satellite internet is not super reliable or fast, so be sure to check it out in your area, especially if you need to rely on it for work.

The full-timers near my property have been using satellite internet for years. It's ok for basic stuff but a continuing source of frustration for things like video calls, streaming, etc. Not to hit where it hurts but we tried to watch a World Cup DH race via satellite internet one time and it was pretty much useless. Luckily there is a plan to lay fiber optic lines up there soon.
 

Jm_

sled dog's bollocks
Jan 14, 2002
19,918
10,515
AK
This brought back bad memories of freeze dried beef stroganoff having a war with my intestines in the middle of the night on a ski mountaineering trip in the Yosemite high country. Digging a poo pit at 2am in the snow in winter leaning on a snow shovel so you don't fall over and expelling the demon in your ass in zero degrees is not fun
Yeah, we at least have standards of decency here in AK.

The freeze dried stroganof was not on the menu of mountain houses that I brought.
 

Jozz

Joe Dalton
Apr 18, 2002
5,997
7,611
SADL
Sorry if I missed it but will you have natural gas available or are you thinking propane?

In my experience satellite internet is not super reliable or fast, so be sure to check it out in your area, especially if you need to rely on it for work.

The full-timers near my property have been using satellite internet for years. It's ok for basic stuff but a continuing source of frustration for things like video calls, streaming, etc. Not to hit where it hurts but we tried to watch a World Cup DH race via satellite internet one time and it was pretty much useless. Luckily there is a plan to lay fiber optic lines up there soon.
For work I'm good with my 15gb cell phone plan. So if we decide to live without streaming I don't think we need more than that. You can still get good signal with an HD antenna that would probably be enough for us. A part of the plan is to cut back on screen time to get more out time. Maybe 5G flying covid bats will be deployed when all of this fantasy happens.

Up here you can get natural gas delivered like propane. Would have to look at maximum tank capacity allowed like @eric strt6 mentioned earlier. It's cheaper methinks.
 

Jm_

sled dog's bollocks
Jan 14, 2002
19,918
10,515
AK
For work I'm good with my 15gb cell phone plan. So if we decide to live without streaming I don't think we need more than that. You can still get good signal with an HD antenna that would probably be enough for us. A part of the plan is to cut back on screen time to get more out time. Maybe 5G flying covid bats will be deployed when all of this fantasy happens.

Up here you can get natural gas delivered like propane. Would have to look at maximum tank capacity allowed like @eric strt6 mentioned earlier. It's cheaper methinks.
I *think* the sat internet has gotten better...not great, but better. I remember trying to use my parent's when they were doing the RV lifestyle 10 years ago. That was a flat out nope. Not appropriate even for simple stuff, let alone streaming. Big time ripoff. Pretty sure it's gotten better though. A lot of places in AK use some form of it and I've been in those remote locations and it seems to have worked ok. The bigger communities get fiberoptics routed in, but pretty sure many are on sat.
 

Jozz

Joe Dalton
Apr 18, 2002
5,997
7,611
SADL
I *think* the sat internet has gotten better...not great, but better. I remember trying to use my parent's when they were doing the RV lifestyle 10 years ago. That was a flat out nope. Not appropriate even for simple stuff, let alone streaming. Big time ripoff. Pretty sure it's gotten better though. A lot of places in AK use some form of it and I've been in those remote locations and it seems to have worked ok. The bigger communities get fiberoptics routed in, but pretty sure many are on sat.
I've heard the same thing. Will look into it.
 

iRider

Turbo Monkey
Apr 5, 2008
5,672
3,124
All major power hungry appliances can run on natural gas (water heater, dryer, stove, secondary heat source (after wood).
Did you consider a heat pump (ground to water) for warm water and backup heating? Uses little electricity only for the pump and compressor and is nearly maintenance free (check once a year). Some can also be used to AC.
 

Jozz

Joe Dalton
Apr 18, 2002
5,997
7,611
SADL
Did you consider a heat pump (ground to water) for warm water and backup heating? Uses little electricity only for the pump and compressor and is nearly maintenance free (check once a year). Some can also be used to AC.
Those systems can get expensive when you have to drill thru the Canadian shield. I'm sure I'll have time to crunch the numbers.
 

dump

Turbo Monkey
Oct 12, 2001
8,411
4,961
The cold, I don't see it as a challenge. Securing enough electricity for common household appliances is my main concern, cause indeed solar panels covered in snow are useless. So they need to be accessible (free standing instead of roof mounted) for then to get cleaned. All major power hungry appliances can run on natural gas (water heater, dryer, stove, secondary heat source (after wood). Those eliminated the rest would be, hair dryer, washer, microwave, refrigerator, coffee machine, lighting, tv/htpc, laptop and phones.

One thing I have to look into is how to access good internet speed via satellites.
Yeah...

Was referring to things like building a house (in California) with minimal insulation.

Carry on.
 

Jozz

Joe Dalton
Apr 18, 2002
5,997
7,611
SADL
Yeah...

Was referring to things like building a house (in California) with minimal insulation.

Carry on.
They actually are starting to insulate more to save on cooling bills. But yeah, not to the extreme of a passive house for colder climate.
 

iRider

Turbo Monkey
Apr 5, 2008
5,672
3,124
Those systems can get expensive when you have to drill thru the Canadian shield. I'm sure I'll have time to crunch the numbers.
Why drilling? The pipes only have to go below the depth of freezing which here where I live is about 1 m.
 

Jozz

Joe Dalton
Apr 18, 2002
5,997
7,611
SADL
Why drilling? The pipes only have to go below the depth of freezing which here where I live is about 1 m.
Did I mention Canadian Shield? ;)

Our current lot got about 2 feet of soil before hitting solid rock. Each time there is a house being built around here you can hear the blasting sirens going off all day. Out of 280 acres, it's realistic that a location could be found with more above rock soil.
 

iRider

Turbo Monkey
Apr 5, 2008
5,672
3,124
Did I mention Canadian Shield? ;)

Our current lot got about 2 feet of soil before hitting solid rock. Each time there is a house being built around here you can hear the blasting sirens going off all day. Out of 280 acres, it's realistic that a location could be found with more above rock soil.
You did, but I didn't realize there was that little soil above it. How do the trees root there?
 

canadmos

Cake Tease
May 29, 2011
21,752
21,210
Canaderp
I *think* the sat internet has gotten better...not great, but better. I remember trying to use my parent's when they were doing the RV lifestyle 10 years ago. That was a flat out nope. Not appropriate even for simple stuff, let alone streaming. Big time ripoff. Pretty sure it's gotten better though. A lot of places in AK use some form of it and I've been in those remote locations and it seems to have worked ok. The bigger communities get fiberoptics routed in, but pretty sure many are on sat.
It's been a few years since I've had experience with satellite internet, but I too found that it was expensive and slow. Part of the slowness probably comes from the latency experienced with the physical distance? Maybe lasers can help??

Or if you're somewhere close enough, look into a provider who can do point to point communication.
 

CBJ

year old fart
Mar 19, 2002
13,074
4,779
Copenhagen, Denmark
You did, but I didn't realize there was that little soil above it. How do the trees root there?
Trees next to nothing to root its more the amount of soil and access to water that then decides the size of the tree. I have a tree that used to live in maybe 2cm by 30cm off moss and old needles.
 

iRider

Turbo Monkey
Apr 5, 2008
5,672
3,124
Trees next to nothing to root its more the amount of soil and access to water that then decides the size of the tree. I have a tree that used to live in maybe 2cm by 30cm off moss and old needles.
Yeah, but those trees are big and I was wondering how they could withstand storms. But Jozz's video answered that. Never seen something like it before.
 

TreeSaw

Mama Monkey
Oct 30, 2003
17,806
2,117
Dancin' over rocks n' roots!
Our family used to have a cabin in the woods on Tug Hill. No power and cell service was virtually non existent. The driveway was about a half mile back so running the poles and electric (actually would have been underground because of the snow and trees) was super expensive so we used all propane wall lanterns; propane stove and refrigerator and woodstove for heating. We had a hand pump for water to the sink and an RV style flush toilet. We did have a few lights wired in and used a generator when we needed to charge batteries etc. We had a kubota tractor for plowing (though there were some local guys that would plow some if we needed. We used 100lb propane tanks that we could get refilled (not sure that's legal but we would take them in the truck and get them filled.

It was an amazing get away but would likely get old over time. Family sold it about 5 years ago but if we had kept it, solar would have been a great option.