[norbar]

Enduro Mag is usually meh with it's tests but this is interesting and it kinda falls in line with what I noticed when looking for a bike this season and testing a few ones:

The fastest enduro race bike – 10 bikes go head-to-head on an EWS stage

Which is the fastest enduro bike of 2020? With most of the 2020 season cancelled, we decided to put on a race of our own to answer that very question.

enduro-mtb.com

Essentially too long + too wide bars = bad. I Think the too long part is what made Poole so angry at Steve from Vorsprung in the first place too. Noticed the same thing. Spacers + Wide Bar + Bigger of the 2 sizes (I'm in between M/L) = I literally stopped moving around the bike and one guide I was riding with noticed that. I was feeling weird when riding on that bike so it made sense even if I felt like it was my fault (yaay Catholic upbringing Guilt even reaches my when biking)

 

[dovbush66]

Im liking shorter and tall bars on long bikes. 480 reach frame and 50mm riser bar cut down to 760mm. feels pretty mint so far!

 

[TrumbullHucker]

I still have no idea how to set up my DH bike lmao

How do you know what's good or bad?

 

[rideit]

The new geo has really improved life for tall/big ape index riders, but has made things a little more difficult for people between sizes.

 

[englertracing]

Short bike more work in rough fast
Long bike more work in turnz

Less traction less fast short bike maybe faster
Mega traction more fast long bike maybe faster

 

[toodles]

I'm going longer for my next bike for sure. Maybe its my weird Aussie hillbilly corgi body dimensions, but i really do feel i've been riding bikes a size too small for 20 years. The runs i've done on borrowed bikes in the last few months have been eye opening in terms of stability and traction. I'm getting pretty close to pulling the pin on racing (at least in any semi-serious sense) but I'm still enjoying punching laps. And the level of forgiveness and speed carry capabilities of the longer reach frames is mental.

 

[iRider]

I am kind of wondering what the combination of long/slack geometry and 26" wheels would do.
Laurie Greenland mentioned in an interview some time ago that when MS Mondraker were testing the 29 vs 27.5 bikes he brought his, at the time, 1-2 year old 26 and had consistently the fastest times on it.

 

[Udi]

Article advocates shorter bikes and narrow bars, but also longer travel, strong wheels, and thick casings.
I've been working on something quite similar:

Hopefully @toodles doesn't tell anyone that I actually owned like 3 of these things

 

[Gary]

The new geo has really improved life for tall/big ape index riders, but has made things a little more difficult for people between sizes.

It totally hasn't made sizing difficult for riders inbetween sizes. It's given them (and tall riders) true choice. Especially as shandover/seat tube height has reduced across the board. along with huge availability of dropper posts in any length /drop you could dream of.
The flip side if thus is that it has produced a genuine difficulty in finding genuinely short reach bikes for small riders (or if riding smaller bikes is just your bag). a modern small is 40mm longer than a 26" small from 7years back. Folk forget far too quickly that those shorter bikes were still actually fun to ride. Short riders no longer have any choice but to ride long bikes. And it shows in riding style on the trails.

 

[iRider]

Article advocates shorter bikes and narrow bars, but also longer travel, strong wheels, and thick casings.
I've been working on something quite similar:

Hopefully @toodles doesn't tell anyone that I actually owned like 3 of these things

You are such a fashion victim with your mullet.

 

[HardtailHack]

Article advocates shorter bikes and narrow bars, but also longer travel, strong wheels, and thick casings.
I've been working on something quite similar:

Hopefully @toodles doesn't tell anyone that I actually owned like 3 of these things

Wow, and you had a forward offset post before Sandwich!

 

[marshalolson]

Makes it more Flickable

 

[Kanye West]

Makes it more Flickable

Like a booger.

I can't think of a more perfect analogy.

 

[ianjenn]

How many Yeti frames cracked in this testing process? Asking for a friend.......

 

[norbar]

The new geo has really improved life for tall/big ape index riders, but has made things a little more difficult for people between sizes.

I'd argue it has made things confusing for people in between sizes. I was always between M and L and M felt cramped so I opted for Larges but now it seems no longer the smartest option.

 

[norbar]

Short bike more work in rough fast
Long bike more work in turnz

Less traction less fast short bike maybe faster
Mega traction more fast long bike maybe faster

If you go too long even in the fast it's a problem. You don't want extreme body movement when going really fast.

 

[norbar]

I'm going longer for my next bike for sure. Maybe its my weird Aussie hillbilly corgi body dimensions, but i really do feel i've been riding bikes a size too small for 20 years. The runs i've done on borrowed bikes in the last few months have been eye opening in terms of stability and traction. I'm getting pretty close to pulling the pin on racing (at least in any semi-serious sense) but I'm still enjoying punching laps. And the level of forgiveness and speed carry capabilities of the longer reach frames is mental.

Yeah but 2020 Medium size is longer than 2014 Large so you can go longer while actually going down sizes let alone keeping the size at the same time.

 

[Gary]

Clue #1:it's no longer 2014
Clue #2: you're no longer even looking at bikes with the same sized wheels as 2014 nevermind geometry
Answer: Look at 2020 sizing when buying a 2020 bike

Even in 2014 none of us blindly choose our expensive mtb frame size based on the letter its manufacturer chose to indicate it's sizing alone. Or at least I hope you didn't.

 

[xy9ine]

...have been eye opening in terms of stability and traction. And the level of forgiveness and speed carry capabilities of the longer reach frames is mental.

this. constantly amazed how much added grip & stability the new bike generates. while still being fun, tossible, and well capable in tight jank. does indeed feel like i've been riding bikes too small all my life, and finally got something that properly fits (coming from a 6 footer that typically rides large or extra large bikes). it's rad.

 

[rideit]

It totally hasn't made sizing difficult for riders inbetween sizes. ....... Short riders no longer have any choice but to ride long bikes. And it shows in riding style on the trails.

you are contradicting yourself.
i find it harder to be super playful at slow speeds, but way faster overall.
Tradeoffs.

 

[Cerberus75]

At 5'6" (long torso) I prefer a reach between 440mm and 445mm with a 40mm stem.

 

[toodles]

What surprised me was that they're actually not that bad in the tight stuff (up until you're trying to ride northshore or something silly). If anything, the increased stability makes it possible to really exaggerate how much you throw the bike around through tighter sections without it getting carried away. Each to their own of course, if I was riding DJs all day I wouldn't bother with longer bikes but I'm keen to experiment a bit for my next build and try something bigger.

When i went from a medium to a large DH bike I kinda felt like an idiot for never trying a larger bike seriously previously.

 

[Jm_]

Clue #1:it's no longer 2014

I don't think I'm alone in saying that going back to 2014 is looking pretty good right now...

 

[dump]

This was already discussed in another thread. Now, let's all watch norbar try to make a decision for the next 3 years. Btw, ever sell that DH bike?!

 

[tabletop84]

I felt hey didn't really advocate going back to shorter bikes but said that for the average 180cm rider around 460 to 470mm reach seems to be the sweet spot. But then these dudes don't seem to be that lanky with long arms and all that. I just think it's difficult if you ride a 470mm reach now and wonder how long your next bike should be. Because now the reach numbers seem to be a bit over the place. Specialized says I should ride 500mm but most brands seem to stick with 470mm.

 

[Gary]

I don't think I'm alone in saying that going back to 2014 is looking pretty good right now...

DH bike wise I've got 4 years to go before being that advanced

 

[Gary]

you are contradicting yourself.

Nah, I'm not. It's just that I don't really care too much about short people. Sorry. But what exactly are short guys gonna do about it anyway? Gang up on me?

 

[norbar]

Clue #1:it's no longer 2014
Clue #2: you're no longer even looking at bikes with the same sized wheels as 2014 nevermind geometry
Answer: Look at 2020 sizing when buying a 2020 bike

Even in 2014 none of us blindly choose our expensive mtb frame size based on the letter its manufacturer chose to indicate it's sizing alone. Or at least I hope you didn't.

2020 sizing still puts me in between sizes. Some Rental bikes with very similar reach numbers felt veeeeeeeeery different just because the cockpit was different.

 

[djjohnr]

Nah, I'm not. It's just that I don't really care too much about short people. Sorry. But what exactly are short guys gonna do about it anyway? Gang up on me?

 

[norbar]

What surprised me was that they're actually not that bad in the tight stuff (up until you're trying to ride northshore or something silly). If anything, the increased stability makes it possible to really exaggerate how much you throw the bike around through tighter sections without it getting carried away. Each to their own of course, if I was riding DJs all day I wouldn't bother with longer bikes but I'm keen to experiment a bit for my next build and try something bigger.

When i went from a medium to a large DH bike I kinda felt like an idiot for never trying a larger bike seriously previously.

Did you go from medium to large but both were same sizing or oldschool short medium to newschool uber long large where a medium would have been way longer anyway.?

This was already discussed in another thread. Now, let's all watch norbar try to make a decision for the next 3 years. Btw, ever sell that DH bike?!

This article wasn't. What was discussed was my indecisiveness. My GF is starting a business and not earning any money. Me being the sole provider is a good reason not to spend money, especially with 2 mortgages. Well that and my country winning covid bingo so I have literally zero reasons to hurry.

 

[Gary]

2020 sizing still puts me in between sizes.

No it doesn't mate.
sizing is just a guide.

Only YOU can put yourself between manufacturers recommended sizes.

you need to stop thinking about bikes as "small", "medium" and "large" etc. and just use common sense and your own personal preference when you look at various bikes geometry charts. You're not new at bikes!

 

[rideit]

oh, bullshit. you can only do so much with stem length, handlbar roll, stem spacers, and seatposts. otherwise they wouldnt even MAKE different sizes.

 

[norbar]

No it doesn't mate.
sizing is just a guide.

Only YOU can put yourself between manufacturers recommended sizes.

you need to stop thinking about bikes as "small", "medium" and "large" etc. and just use common sense and your own personal preference when you look at various bikes geometry charts. You're not new at bikes!

I'm not saying I'm only using the size guide from MFG's. Just being anal for no reason. Though yeah with bikes growing fast and today's bikes having more sizing variety/spread it's harder to find a benchmark for what works.

 

[norbar]

oh, bullshit. you can only do so much with stem length, handlbar roll, stem spacers, and seatposts. otherwise they wouldnt even MAKE different sizes.

I'm pretty sure that's not the point. The point is to not go blindly with long bars but to make them work with frame sizes.

 

[Gary]

Just being anal for no reason.

By the sounds of it you're not even going to buy a bike after all your grumbling about sizes anyway


.

 

[Gary]

oh, bullshit. you can only do so much with stem length, handlbar roll, stem spacers, and seatposts. otherwise they wouldnt even MAKE different sizes.

ride your fucking bike

 

[dump]

This article wasn't...

See: https://ridemonkey.bikemag.com/threads/future-of-geometry-grim-f-in-donut.288948/page-9#post-4464185

This is what I thought was being referenced. Similar topic.

 

[sethimus]

ridemonkey, help me out

last mtb i bought was in 2011, a medium pitch pro, running it with a 45mm stem and 760mm bars:

2011 Specialized Bicycles Pitch Pro M

Full-suspension All-mountain/Enduro MTB bike with very aggressive stack and reach. Find your ideal bike using bike-on-bike geometry comparisons with diagrams, powerful search tools, and category analysis.

bikeinsights.com

my gravel bike right now is a 381mm reach bike with a 90mm stem and dropbars with 70mm reach and a 73° seat angle

with 184cm length and 88cm inseam, i‘m looking right now at bikes in 470/480 range. they should still feel less stretched out with a 35mm stem than on my gravel bike, right?

 

[toodles]

Did you go from medium to large but both were same sizing or oldschool short medium to newschool uber long large where a medium would have been way longer anyway.?

I went from a medium Gambler to a Large in the 26" size. They were both pretty short anyway. I think the Large mighta been 440mm reach?

My current Enduro bike is 450mm reach M 27.5 Patrol and I've been enjoying stealing a couple of bikes with a 468mm and 485mm reach lately. Both are 29ers as well which further varies things. I think a track would have to be pretty friggen tight for the smaller bike to have a noticeable advantage over the others.

 

[Gary]

ridemonkey, help me out

last mtb i bought was in 2011, a medium pitch pro, running it with a 45mm stem and 760mm bars:

2011 Specialized Bicycles Pitch Pro M

Full-suspension All-mountain/Enduro MTB bike with very aggressive stack and reach. Find your ideal bike using bike-on-bike geometry comparisons with diagrams, powerful search tools, and category analysis.

bikeinsights.com

my gravel bike right now is a 381mm reach bike with a 90mm stem and dropbars with 70mm reach and a 73° seat angle

with 184cm length and 88cm inseam, i‘m looking right now at bikes in 470/480 range. they should still feel less stretched out with a 35mm stem than on my gravel bike, right?

Why the hell are you comparing mtb sizing with roadbike sizing.
Have you gone full Johnny T and run drop bars on your Enduro bike?