Kona's Dr Dew flat bar roadie has 471mm reach, it's sorta like a CX bike but not shit.
Long bikes are... bad???
- Thread starter norbar
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only reference point i have atm
thinking of getting the new pipedream sirius s5, but i don’t know if i should take the long or longer size
Sirius S5
www.pipedreamcycles.com
Not terribly surprising...I feel like bikes have continued to grow and at some point you hit the maximum. Also, I thought we started running 800mm bars partyl because our bikes were too short. I remember slapping some wide bars on a small DH frame and it didn't feel so small anymore. So yeah, not surprised that people are figuring out that shortening the bars to better fit their body is working wonders...nor that a shorter bike is easier to move around and make it go where you want it to. We simply haven't had those options yet!
I'm sorry my Gf leaving her jurb, covid, and therefore me trying to be financially responsible is somehow interfering with the bike buying timeline you have set up for me.
How does that relate to your comment to me not being able to pull the trigger in the time period you designated for me?
Didn't need to be a dick about me not buying a bike yet. I missed that post.
I've noticed super long is a bigger problem on steep stuff and anything where you need to move your body around the bike more. Slow speed tight turns you can either rail or slide into won't be affected by reach imho.
As for reach I've tried a few 470mm reach bikes. One was fine, the other wasn't.
Just a bit of friendly ribbing. Didn't know it was a sore point. Also, didn't know you didn't do anything about the bike yet! Carry on.
For sure. I ran 800mm bars on my 2013 Nomad, which had like a 415 reach. My GG has a 450 reach, and I've shortened my bars down to 770, and gone up to 35mm rise.
One thing to note is that in the Enduro article, their #3 bike (the Nukeproof) had 450mm chainstays. That probably still worked for them in the tight sections they referenced constantly because all of the Enduro Mag testers are pretty tall & heavy compared to a typical pro.
Yeah one thing nobody here is doing is listing their height and riding style. I have no doubts that a nice long frame could be important for high speed enduro clacking, but for average joe trail center, I'm not sure you need a reach of 500mm.
For example, at 5'11", I think I'll stick with around 460mm of reach, but I'm riding trails that go up and down and realistically more up than down. If I was enduro racing, or even riding where you climb straight for 4 miles followed by a long DH, I'd probably want something different. Actually, my DH bike has the same reach as my trail bike when it's equipped with a factory 150mm fork.
For example, at 5'11", I think I'll stick with around 460mm of reach, but I'm riding trails that go up and down and realistically more up than down. If I was enduro racing, or even riding where you climb straight for 4 miles followed by a long DH, I'd probably want something different. Actually, my DH bike has the same reach as my trail bike when it's equipped with a factory 150mm fork.
My 8 year old XL trailbike has the same reach as my 4 year old Large DH bike and I think they're probably both size small on current sizing at 455mm reach...
6'2"
Ape Index of +1.5
29r
477mm reach (616 stack)
40mm stem
795mm bar width measured.
...780mm bars w/ Ergon GE1 Evo grips. The grips add a bit.
I'm thinking of cutting them down to 750-760 giving 765-775 final width, as I'm finding them a bit too wide.
This is in keeping with what @Sandwich was saying, I don't notice on my 27.5/26 mullet DH bike with 50mm stem, 800mm bars and the same grips. If anything, a bit wider would not hurt my feelings, but then again the reach on the DH bike before the mulleting was 432 with a stack of 593.
Ape Index of +1.5
29r
477mm reach (616 stack)
40mm stem
795mm bar width measured.
...780mm bars w/ Ergon GE1 Evo grips. The grips add a bit.
I'm thinking of cutting them down to 750-760 giving 765-775 final width, as I'm finding them a bit too wide.
This is in keeping with what @Sandwich was saying, I don't notice on my 27.5/26 mullet DH bike with 50mm stem, 800mm bars and the same grips. If anything, a bit wider would not hurt my feelings, but then again the reach on the DH bike before the mulleting was 432 with a stack of 593.
Interesting on the DH bike length vs trail bike length. Or is it enduro? Anyways, I find it curious that people are riding massively long enduro/trail bikes, but shorter DH bikes. What's the logic behind that? Needing more length for proper extension? More upright seating plus longer reach keeps the position "the same" but gives more length for when you stand and get spooky?
2013 26" 215mm DH bike.
2019 29" 135mm Trail bike.
Both large from the same company.
DH bike was fine when I got it, but now it seems short. Even more so with the mullet setup as this shortens the reach, but the compromise is worth it in my opinion. At first the trail bike I found a bit long, as it was a bit of a change from my last 26" trailbike which was 447 in reach. Now that I'm used to the 29" wheels and the length, I like it. Back to back (kept the 26" for my son) the old bike is ok, but seems small, and the only place it is better is in the really tight stuff. However as soon as it gets tight and janky, the 29" roll over beats the 26" maneuverability.
Interestingly, the guy I bought both the DH bike and the Trailbike frame is the designer and company owner. He is the same size as me (6'2" @210) and he rides the same sizes. The trailbike is production, but the DH bike was his personal final prototype.
Interesting how our preferences evolve as technology changes. I remember hating the first few 29" bikes I rode. They just seemed to fit weird, toe overlap, feeling like I'm on top, super steep angles etc etc. As they got their shit figured out, now I have a bike that properly fits my 6 foot 2 inch + 1.5 ape index broken bag of body parts.
/Cool story bro
2019 29" 135mm Trail bike.
Both large from the same company.
DH bike was fine when I got it, but now it seems short. Even more so with the mullet setup as this shortens the reach, but the compromise is worth it in my opinion. At first the trail bike I found a bit long, as it was a bit of a change from my last 26" trailbike which was 447 in reach. Now that I'm used to the 29" wheels and the length, I like it. Back to back (kept the 26" for my son) the old bike is ok, but seems small, and the only place it is better is in the really tight stuff. However as soon as it gets tight and janky, the 29" roll over beats the 26" maneuverability.
Interestingly, the guy I bought both the DH bike and the Trailbike frame is the designer and company owner. He is the same size as me (6'2" @210) and he rides the same sizes. The trailbike is production, but the DH bike was his personal final prototype.
Interesting how our preferences evolve as technology changes. I remember hating the first few 29" bikes I rode. They just seemed to fit weird, toe overlap, feeling like I'm on top, super steep angles etc etc. As they got their shit figured out, now I have a bike that properly fits my 6 foot 2 inch + 1.5 ape index broken bag of body parts.
/Cool story bro
what are the reach measurments on those?
It's no coincidence that the two Pro EWS riders that actually look cool riding Enduro still ride the same reach Derp bike as their DH bikes were.
Enduro bike geo has been leading DH. Not surprising, as that's where the money is. Newer DH bikes are catching up. For example, size large: Supreme 29 - 480 reach, Canyon Sender CFR - 485, Summum - 475
I’m 6’2” and recently went to an XL Process 153 27.5 with a 515 reach and 425 chainstays. I actually can’t stand it for 99% of the trails that are local to me. I did some sustained DH runs in North Conway NH (fucking awesome trails) and it was a lot of fun there. But I’m definitely going back to something more balanced. Shorter reach for sure and probably something with a little longer chainstays. For the tight, slow, technical, quick up and down trails around here, it sucks.
Ah yep true. Before I do anything too silly I'll steal some longer bikes again and go for a proper days ride on them, not just a couple of laps.
Its always a hassle over here to test ride stuff properly, because not many shops have demos available. In the end, you tend to go for what feels ok in the shop carpark rather than risking serious geo changes that you can't test off-road.
Sorry then. Nuance doesn't carry over the internet well. I'm preping my dh bike to be sold. Will probably save a bit to get something better unless I find a great offer on a used endurer.
Mmm there's a good reason DH bikes are "shorter"
With a 2 or 3* steeper the dh bike has a longer front center, with the same reach the front wheel would be a meter ahead. 50 - 55mm stems make up for a bit.
Also being pointed steeply down most of the time you position yourself just a touch further back on average, which extra reach makes feel awkward.
Thats an enormous mismatch.....
Will the stack height be high enough for you? You want a bit more on a HT than a dually and PD run the same size HT on all three frames which in my opinion is stupid as is sub 600mm stack height, especially on a mid travel frame.only reference point i have atm
thinking of getting the new pipedream sirius s5, but i don’t know if i should take the long or longer size
Sirius S5
At 25% sag
the Product of COTIC cycles : Solaris MAX
The new Cotic hardtail for 29er and plus wheels
www.cotic.co.uk
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It really is. Finding something else right now is almost impossible.
the geometry shown is measued with a 100mm fork at 25% travel
with a sid 120 it‘s a bit higher:
Does it mention anywhere on the Pipedream site that those specs are at sag?
Recently my damper died and it took my fork down to about 80mm of travel which was a bunch of fun, that had the HA at at 66deg but the stack would have been down to ~585mm which was a bit low.
I am thinking of mulleting it and running a 100mm fork, I don't anything exciting these days.
Just rode Trek Slash 2021 on local trails. I am 190cm, 6'2" feet. I rode L-size and reach was just right. Trek recommeds XL for my size, but it would be too big. My old bikes are XL with 47cm reach, Slash is little longer. And because chainstay in Slash is 437mm in every size, XL could be harder to ride because relatively short stays
I just did the same thing. Pedaled my buddy’s 2021 large Slash around. I’m 6’2” as well and it felt spot on.
Yeah I think some MFG's got lost when the new geo came around since some time before they shifted size recommendations, then they grew their frames but didn't rethink their size guide. I'm 5'10/5'11'' and I'm dead center between M and L so L for you is probably fine unless you have some funky build
think you first need to find an accurate way of measuring your own height before worrying about virtual sizes of virtual bikes and whether or not you are going to fit them.
I'm 5'11 (well, more like 5'10.5 and I have a 34 inseam which gives me a shorter torso) and my riding style these days is 'stick to the ground and go as fast as I can given my weekend-warrior skill level and age.'
I think I found my ideal reach to be around 470mm. My large Megatower has a 470mm reach but with a taller 170mm travel fork like the Fox 38, I guesstimate the reach to be closer to 460-ish. That's why I put a 50mm stem back on instead of the 40mm. I also have an 800mm bar and I find I'm upright and comfortable. I can't really imagine having a bike with longer wheelbase than what I already have. The trails I ride, which are the North Shore of Vancouver, can be super tight...climbing and descending. You have to remind yourself they were mostly built in the 90s and early 2000s.
I just read the review on that new Kona Process X...490mm reach for a large?? Jesus...the wheelbase is huge too. Based on the geo, I wouldn't be able to ride the large on my local stuff all that well I don't think. I don't know if bikes are going to get longer...if they do, people are just going to size down.
FYI, my DH bike is a Kona Operator CR 29 large. That has a reach of 475mm, has a 50mm stem and 820mm bars. Stable as hell and bails me out of shitty situations all the time.
I think I found my ideal reach to be around 470mm. My large Megatower has a 470mm reach but with a taller 170mm travel fork like the Fox 38, I guesstimate the reach to be closer to 460-ish. That's why I put a 50mm stem back on instead of the 40mm. I also have an 800mm bar and I find I'm upright and comfortable. I can't really imagine having a bike with longer wheelbase than what I already have. The trails I ride, which are the North Shore of Vancouver, can be super tight...climbing and descending. You have to remind yourself they were mostly built in the 90s and early 2000s.
I just read the review on that new Kona Process X...490mm reach for a large?? Jesus...the wheelbase is huge too. Based on the geo, I wouldn't be able to ride the large on my local stuff all that well I don't think. I don't know if bikes are going to get longer...if they do, people are just going to size down.
FYI, my DH bike is a Kona Operator CR 29 large. That has a reach of 475mm, has a 50mm stem and 820mm bars. Stable as hell and bails me out of shitty situations all the time.
I'm 6'1, and I rode a Transition Sentinel at 480mm reach, now a Banshee Titan with 470mm reach. I was worried about the reach on the Titan at first so opted for a 50mm stem and low rise bars, but honestly it has felt comfortable since day 1. I just upgraded the fork to an Ohlins RXF36 m.2, which has higher A2C compared to its Fox and RS competitors, so I probably lost a little bit of reach there but I didn't notice too much, esp. at dynamic ride height and riding lots of steep stuff.
Living in the PNW, I can't imagine going as long as some of these companies are with their sizing. I had a large 2019 Chromag Stylus for about a year, got the frame for a steal. While the geo looked solidly modern on paper, it was another case of fashion over function - the stack was WAY too short even with a 160mm fork, the reach was too long at ~500mm, and the chainstays were too short. It honestly never felt good on anything. My OG 26" Chromag Samurai that I refurbished like 7 years ago was a far more balanced bike.
I'll say that my Titan's longer chainstays have changed my perspective on that front, as I used to be a major proponent of short stays. I think the balance afforded on the longer stays on the Titan perfectly suits the size L and lets me stay more centered on the bike while keeping the rear wheel tracking much more consistently both through corners and over rough stuff. That said, not sure they'd feel quite right on a smaller size, which makes a strong case for Norco's sizing convention of changing the rear triangle for each size.
Living in the PNW, I can't imagine going as long as some of these companies are with their sizing. I had a large 2019 Chromag Stylus for about a year, got the frame for a steal. While the geo looked solidly modern on paper, it was another case of fashion over function - the stack was WAY too short even with a 160mm fork, the reach was too long at ~500mm, and the chainstays were too short. It honestly never felt good on anything. My OG 26" Chromag Samurai that I refurbished like 7 years ago was a far more balanced bike.
I'll say that my Titan's longer chainstays have changed my perspective on that front, as I used to be a major proponent of short stays. I think the balance afforded on the longer stays on the Titan perfectly suits the size L and lets me stay more centered on the bike while keeping the rear wheel tracking much more consistently both through corners and over rough stuff. That said, not sure they'd feel quite right on a smaller size, which makes a strong case for Norco's sizing convention of changing the rear triangle for each size.
After nearly 3 years on 800mm bars, I think I'm going to cut them down to 780mm. I have narrow shoulders, but relatively long arms at 6' tall and love wider bars for stability in tech, leverage on off cambers, as well as the side benefit of encouraging me to ride more forward on the bike.
I'm currently trying to find a 40mm rise Fatbar for the Meta.
I'm currently trying to find a 40mm rise Fatbar for the Meta.
I r
Narrower tall bars on long bikes is a wierd one for sure but I'm liking it so far, Def give it a try. Hard to explain,like I have more control/stability but also less control at the same time - easier to lock into a line, less wheel wandering. Better feel in steep corners but takes a bit more effort to lean into flatter ones. Went from 790-780 and now finally on 760
Highly ironic statement after you asserted that ‘bike size doesn’t matter’ a few weeks ago.
At one point I had my eye on a Kona Process 153 frameset and thought about replacing my Megatower with that. Only because I like the Operator a lot and figured both bikes from the same company was usually something I liked having. But I think they can also go overboard with how short chainstays can get (which I think the Process 153 has). So short, you can't run anything bigger than a 29x2.3 tire. Even with a long reach like 475mm on their large frame, that front end is gonna be prone to lifting once you start climbing the more technical trails.
Contradiction much?