[Thylacine]

So......my latest prototype is on the drawing board. Over 12 months and a couple of thousand test miles on it without a hitch. Wore out a couple of idler wheels and broke one of the bolts that hold the rear dropour on - thats it. Suffice to day I'm pretty happy about that.

Heres a pic of it when it was all shiny and new....


....So yeah, time for a new version. I think with the new one I'm going to 5.3" of travel via a 2" stroke AVA or Romic shock, but being the recovering weight weenie that I am, the extra .3lb is a concern.

Okay, so now the question - What fork should I run??? I'm looking at the various 125mm Fox Forx that everyone recomends, but they're scarce and the OEM wait on them is 16 weeks, not to mention reliability issues surfacing.....but then I discovered these - >

http://www.marzocchi.com/eng/spa/products/mtb/catalogs/2003/z1.asp

The Z1 FR SL. Its like the Marathon for the big boys. Anyone seen, ridden, or have any info on this fork? Looks like It might be something to consider, although it might also be heavy as fark.

 

[ohio]

I don't know about the fork, but did we mention that's a beautiful bike? ohio likey.

Can you really up the travel without ripping the rear derailleur off? or will you have to add a chain guide? That would be too bad... it's wonderfully simple right now.


(I'll bet a FR SL weighs around 5lbs... maybe 4.5)

 

[SwisSlesS]

I've never ridden that fork specifically. But I do know that any Marzocchi you buy will not dissapoint you.

 

[Tenchiro]

Damn, someone has REALLY long legs! That is a cool looking bike though.

 

[Surly]

Thats looks really sweeeeeeeeet. A couple of questions, tho--

Whats the purpose of the upper sprocket? I'm no suspension genius (obviously)...

What's the geometry? I'm currently looking around at stuff that would be compatible with a 6" DC fork for general trailriding. Mmmmmmmmmmm....Maverick maybe.

Beautiful color, btw. Will you post when you're accepting orders for those beauties?

 

[DHS]

i have a Z1 SL on my VT. its friggn nice. i have a Marathon on my XC hardtail. i love the feel of these. plus i've ridden them in 100¡ weather and in -17¡ weather. i've never had to adjust the air in either. its really not that bad weight wise either, the Z1 SL is about the same weight if not lighter then a Fox Talas. and is lighter then a Psylo Race

 

[Bacardi]

Neat looking bike!

That is probably one of the best lines you can find for the rear cables, for a bike I have seen in the 4" travel range...

I might be concerned for aggressive XC users (not its intended user?) that the chain might derail. I see that you have a Short Cage Derailleur on their to help tension a little...

 

[MikeD]

So...didja have any luck getting that free fork from Maverick??

That'd probably be perfect, like someone mentioned above.

The Z1s are great forks; don't think the air versions are as tunable as the Marathons (no pos/neg air chamber that I know of, just a simple air spring), but they're good. They're even better in coil spring, though. You could run them with one leg coil and the other leg air-sprung, if you really wanted to be freakish (Use a single stiff spring and set the air pressure low just for a bit of progression/big hit assist...)

Personally, I'd steer clear of the Fox due to the bushing issues that have plauged so many people.

Or you could just find yourself an old dual-crown Rockshox SID XL...

MD

Ed: For the rear shock, you know I think Romic is great...but have you thought about the 5th Elly air shock that was shown at Interbike?

 

[Thylacine]

Cool, someone has ridden the Z1 FR SL! Thanks for the feedback. That thing looks heavier than a Fox by a long shot though - I can't believe that Fox plain havent pulled their fingers out on these forks. How can you underestimate demand for forks for 24 months and STILL not be able to supply. I might get the Marzo rep out here to show me a pair of Z1 SLs and maybe queeze him hard for a set. Don't like my chances as they still hate me for killing a Mavic rear hub that they not only didnt warranty but then never gave me my wheelset back. Actually Its more like I hate them for that...who said I don't hold a grudge? Hey, its only been 11 years, gimme a break!

Yeah mikey, I'm pestering the crap outta Frank at Mav for a set - specs will be finalised in 2-3 weeks apparently, but I'm still not happy with the 6" setting. I'm a diehard Trailbiker, and for me 5" is a stretch - who in heck is going to want a 6" travel, 28-30lb Trailbike? Some dork who puts one on a Ells ID and kills it in a month and then cries warranty? If anything I want more travel in the rear - not in the front.

As for the frame you see there, the next proto will have an Easton RAD front end and awesome standover height via a 'carry handle' style cross brace a'la XCE. Yeah, I'll consider the 5th Ele Air along with the AVA as the shock of choice. Weight gain going from 4" ( 6.3lbs on my XL frame there ) to 5" is all in a small CNC'd shock extender and the RAD top tube - I'm expecting to add only another .3-.4lb. Using the same swingarm as it is, in a word, BOMBER.

Its stiff and tough. The idler is going to float and no, the chain is constantly in tension so it never ever comes off the idler. The idler ELIMINATES the chains effect on the suspension system, which is why I'm skeptical of the 5th element as I see the whole 'bob' thing as a bit of a non-event.

Currently I'm waiting for a handlebar activated switch connected to both the forks AND the rear so that I can program how both ends act depending on speed and terrain. For example, I generally fun my forks harder to avoid dive in slow speed situations as it helps the front wheel pop over obsticles rather than stop dead and pitch me over the bars.

Now THERES a technology I can use. You listening you shock manufacturers?

I do like those Z1 SLs though.....def check them out next week.

 

[MikeD]

Funny...on my drive home yesterday, I was envisioning a rear shock of the future to which you'd hook up your laptop or PDA and map out the shock performance scheme electronically...

Maybe it'd just connect to the shock via micro-servomotors that would physically turn mini-dials on the shock body, or maybe be entirely electronic. If so, do you think the motion of the wheels/shock/cranks could provide power? Then the shock could alter its own performance based on its current us (kinda like the Brain opens up on a hit)...ie, it's currently taking a hard hit, so it gets more progressive as it predicts it may run out of travel...

On the other hand, I'd rather see thinks kept a bit simpler, myself. It's like cameras...even the most sophisticated, computerized light metering systems still get the same exposure results as less sophisticated systems under most circumstances (and if there's not an idiot behind the camera, it's a moot point...)

MD

 

[MikeD]

Originally posted by Thylacine
who in heck is going to want a 6" travel, 28-30lb Trailbike?

uhhh...Me? Anyone with a pulse and a taste for epic technical rides?? Honestly, I think a lot of us who like to ride big hit/FR stuff are finding our 'big bikes' to be overkill in many situations. A 6" bike that could do it all would be my choice if I could only have one bike. (My Titus is pretty close to that now...5"/4.75" coil sprung with heavy duty wheelset and parts, and it RIPS everywhere except big drops and road gaps and such, where my FR bike is definitely more comfortable.)



The beauty of the Maverick is that it has the 4" setting for climbing, 5" for riding tech/singletrack, and 6" for descending, and it's all externally adjustable. (If you like to fiddle with knobs; personally, I don't...but might make an exception for that fork.)

If one doesn't like 6", one needn't set the fork to that travel...

That is all,

MD

 

[Thylacine]

Where'd you read that the Mav fork is 4-5-6"? Everything I've read on it says 4" for 'climbing' and 6" for descending - nothing about it being infinitely adjustable.

What does everyone else think? Whats the definition of 'Trailbike' these days? Is it a situation where people would want a multi adjustable 4-6" travel bike or are we getting back to the origins of what I see as mountainbiking - simple, no fluff, reliable and gimmick free?

I think the danger is is that I mean, some freeride bikes are 6" travel, and I'd hate to think that some potential customers would think "Hey, cool, I'll just flip it into 6" mode and huck my trailbike." You know that sort of mentality is just going to end in tears - and I'm the poor bastard thats going to have to deal with the warranty issues.

Anyway, heres a little monkey treat for y'all.....

 

[Thylacine]

This is what I'm thinking....

 

[DHS]

MikeD,

find out more info about the Z1 SL before you talk about it.
its the exact same thing as a Marathon, just beefier. I know, i have both

 

[DHS]

also, i have ridden the Maverick fork and it doesn't feel very nice. i'm not quite sure of a DC on my trail bike but it is lighter then the Z1.

also think about what you're doing for OEM. the Z1 is cheaper and easier to come by the the Maverick. but thats up to you.

Thylacine, you need to go ride both.

i thought the Maverick fork was only 4 or 6" adjustable.

 

[Thylacine]

Originally posted by DHS
also, i have ridden the Maverick fork and it doesn't feel very nice. i'm not quite sure of a DC on my trail bike but it is lighter then the Z1.

also think about what you're doing for OEM. the Z1 is cheaper and easier to come by the the Maverick. but thats up to you.

Thylacine, you need to go ride both.

i thought the Maverick fork was only 4 or 6" adjustable.

Ride both? Bwahaha! Mate, this is Australia - the only way I can test ride these things is if I run into someone on the trail and ask for a ride. I'd put money on there not actually being either of those forks on our shores anyway. Makes it a bit tough huh Welcome to my world.

 

[johnbryanpeters]

If you offer it with 6", they're going to be hucking with it, then come back wanting warranty replacement 'cause it broke while they were "just riding along".

See any discussion on Ellsworth...

J

 

[MikeD]

Originally posted by johnbryanpeters


See any discussion on Ellsworth...

J

now, now...the Id, IMHO, was originally marketed as a true FR bike. Only after the initial wave of breakage did Ellsworth come around and start calling it a trailbike.

 

[Thylacine]

Maybe Tony should actually do some....ah......research before he sticks a longer rocker on a Truth and calls it 'freeride'. Makes you wonder what happened in/to the Swift/Isis collaboration between Ellsworth and Gibson doesnt it? Can you imagine being in the same room with those guys? It would be like "Is there any room in here for me between the two massive heads that seem to have engulfed this room?" :devil:

 

[MikeD]

Hmm...personally, I think a metaphor for that room might involve Peter North, Ron Jeremy, and a certain few areas of Tabitha Steven's body...

 

[johnbryanpeters]

Maybe designers and manufacturers need to add something like a limit indicator - if this indicator's on / metal tab is broken, you're pushing harder than this machine was designed for.

The riding style definitions are so fuzzy and so broadly applied as to be meaningless...

J

 

[MikeD]

not a bad idea...it'd be like the pop-up thermometer in your Butterball turkey...

Ellsworth's original ads for the Id showed a "rider going-off," not some epic 40+ mile technical singletrack expedition; they just bit off more than they could chew with that bike.