[dfinn]

I've had my bike now for a little bit. '03 Rocky Mtn Carve. Unfortunately it came with a bent rear deraulleur but the shop I bought it from is trying to get money back from UPS about that. So I figure I might as well upgrade to XTR. It seems like the cheapest place to get the parts is ebay but there are several different models on there. I know I need a 9 speed one but it seems like there are even a few different versions of that. Can anyone give me a specific part # or model # so that I'm sure I'm getting the right parts.

Thanks
Dan

 

[bigpow5]

I'm not familiar with the bike you describe, but I just upgraded to XTR rear and am happy after a week of riding. My relevant bike components: 9 speed xt cassette, stumpjumper frame, race face cranks.

I bought the RD-M960 Long cage, which is what you want.

Here is the link to the ebay item i bought :
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3619804836&category=42329&rd=1

Happy shifting

 

[oldfart]

potentially out there. Mid and long cage in each. There's the standard shift M950 gs and sgs. There's a rapid rise version of that but I don't know the model number and the new 03 XTR which is only in rapid rise or low normal. Having used standard shift forever I was reluctant to use low normal until this year when I got the whole new 03 XTR group. I have changed my mind. Low normal works better. It works better because it removes rider ability from the shift to lower gears. You click and the derailleur performs the shift. Its less important to be able to shift quickly to higher gears than to a lower gear. But you can't click across 3 or 4 gears in one push like the other system. You can of course click 3 or 4 times in rapid succession and do the same thing.

 

[dfinn]

could someone explain rapid rise and low normal? Or at least let me know which is better

 

[sub6]

OK, here's what you want: M952, long cage. That's the 2002 9sp model.

Contrary to what bigpow said, I don't think you necessarily want the 960. The M960 works backwards (rapid rise, low normal, all the same thing). I.e. if you hit the trigger, it shifts into bigger cogs, hit the thumb lever, it shifts into smaller cogs. I have no enthusiasm for those, it seems stupid. If I find myself in a tall gear at the bottom of a steep-ass hill, I'd MUCH rather be able to shift all the way up the cogset in a quick throw, rather than clicking the stupid trigger nine times while my momentum goes to sh*t and I have to stop. It's also ridiculously expensive, I can't justify dropping $120 on a rear derailleur.

I think M953 is the 2000-2002 or so Rapid-rise (works backwards, like the 960).

M950 is the 8sp, older XTR, 1996-1999. It works fine with 9sp and goes for cheaper on ebay but I doubt you could find a new one.

M900 and M910 are the OLD XTRs, circa 1994 or so. They're sweet, with a pretty short cage, I use one on my old-school steel bike.

 

[SwisSlesS]

I agree with sub6. You don't want Rapid Rise.

 

[oldfart]

Have you guys actually ridden a rapid-rise equiped bike? I mean ridden for a few hours or even more? You remind me of a kid that won't eat brussel sprouts. I used to be that way too but I've seen the light. It works better. Why? Because getting a lower gear is the more difficult shift for the derailleur to make and the rider too. By making the shift a simple click by the rider and the actual shift is entirely within the mechanical control of the derailleur, it happens quicker and much more acurately. Want two or three gears? Click 3 times. Its not hard.

Rapid rise is what Shimano called it when it was first introduced. Now they call it low normal. Same thing.

 

[bigpow5]

oldfart is right. If you put aside what you are familiar with, the rapid rise makes more sense from a physical standpoint. The easier assisted shift into the bigger gear is more beneficial to the rider.
Sure it took a few rides to get used to it. I am happy now and it makes total sense.

I have noticed no increase in time when I have to downshift all the way at the beginning of a climb. The thing is so precise and shifts so quickly I feel that I have more control how far down I want to go.

Another advantage that I am just starting to notice is this: If you find that you need to downshift one more gear while you are climbing, the rapidrise is very helpful. You just layoff a tad on your pedaling for a split second, and hit the shifter. voila easier pedaling instantaneously w/ only minor stress on the derailuir.

 

[sub6]

Meh. I like what I like, and I don't like what I don't like. To me, the "normal rise" motion is much more natural.

If y'all are really having trouble pushing that thumb paddle down under load, you may wanna invest in some of those lil' 5lb dumbells and work on yer forearm strength... Personally, if the shift is so difficult to make, I'd rather rely on the strength of my muscles to force that derailleur to move, rather than that puny little spring Sh*tmano puts in their derailluers. I have a feeling I've got a little more "oomph" than it does. If the load is so great that the der. won't move, I can always increase the pressure I exert. If you're relying on the little spring to do the work, it has a max force output of what, six pounds? That's the limit, there's no more power there, and no way to increase it.....

yeah, I know in practice it works really well, etc. I just don't like it very much.

anyway, chocolate vs. vanilla.....

 

[oldfart]

Hey to each his own. But your logic when tested in practice is flawed. I can down shift, standing, on seriously steep stuff while grinding at 70 rpm.

It will feel awkward at first because you've shifted the other way for so long. I've shifted the other way for over 30 years so it took a couple weeks before I didn't miss shift several times per ride. After a couple months I don't miss shift much at all.

All I'm saying is don't knock until you've really tried it. I've tried peas and brussel sprouts. And now I know I do not like peas. brussel sprouts are palitable enough to eat and please the mother-in-law.

 

[SwisSlesS]

Originally posted by sub6
anyway, chocolate vs. vanilla.....

Rapid Rise is chocolate, and it's better.

 

[speedbump]

Biopace, U-Brakes, Rapid-Rise.....

Nuff said

 

[RhinofromWA]

Originally posted by speedbump
Biopace, U-Brakes, Rapid-Rise.....

Nuff said

I have owned 2 out of 3 of these things.........

1988ish DB Ascent

 

[Zark]

Originally posted by oldfart
Have you guys actually ridden a rapid-rise equiped bike?

Yes I have, for two years. While it clicked off gears well. There was no gain in performance over normal shifting and actually it sucked! Clicking off 3 shifts for an uphill or one thumb push? I'll take the thumb push. Rapid demise does not have sufficient accuracy for multiple up shifts either. Killing that der. was the best thing I ever did!:devil:

I might throw all this out the window if I try STI and like it, but for triggers, my mind is set (and I gave it a chance!)

 

[vitox]

ive used rapidrise too

didnt like it

most of all it annoyed me to not be able to do multiple upshifts so fast because i had to fire several shifts.

still its mostly a question of getting used to it, the way i see it, any gain you might have by going to low normal is less than the hassle to reconvert from your decade long training with normal derailleurs and shifters.
so with sti it might really be interesting but with normal RF or GS, no go.

thats just me though....