[Kihaji]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20070529/ts_afp/venezuelamediatelevisionrights_070529075526


So who's the worst leader in the Western hemisphere now? Take that America.

 

[Westy]

The government also accused Venezuelan TV network Globovision of encouraging any would-be assassins of the president.

Globovision? Sounds like a front for Dr. Evil to take over the world.

 

[stevew]

I'm sure Danny Glover approves.

 

[skinny mike]

well bush is still an idiot and a crappy leader, but chavez is just a douche.

 

[valve bouncer]

Nice one Hugo you great galloping f*ckwit. As much as I enjoy seeing him give Dubya the sh*ts it's about time he left the party if he's gonna do things like this.

 

[rockwool]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20070529/ts_afp/venezuelamediatelevisionrights_070529075526


So who's the worst leader in the Western hemisphere now? Take that America.

You don't judge before the other side has a chanse to speak, do you? I know it's quite a bit of reading but it's a really good article and for change it has some facts presented that explain the quotes from the yahoo article that were left out to be ridiculed, as what has been going on is soo extraordinary that we can't even imagine where these reactions have come from.

Venezuela, RCTV, And Media Freedom: Just The Facts, Please

Tuesday, May 29, 2007

By: James Jordan

Lessons In Curtailing Media Freedom

There are a number of ways to curtail press freedom. You can charge a journalist with murder and put him on death row-Mumia Abu-Jamal, for instance. You can grant special favors, privileges, and access to corporate media giants while raiding and shutting down low-power, independent radio stations, which the FCC does with some regularity. You could arrest independent journalists at anti-war demonstrations-again, a regular occurrence. For instance, I recall my friend and Indy journalist, Jeff Imig, who has been repeatedly threatened with arrest, while recording anti-war demonstrations in Tucson, Arizona, for violating the statute against filming federal buildings. Jeff finally got arrested-for jaywalking! Corporate press, on the other hand, seems to have free reign to jaywalk and film federal buildings at these same events-behavior I and countless others have witnessed!

And then there is the Mother of All Media Manipulations: the blackout engineered by the Bush administration which blocks media from showing the arrival of body bags and coffins of newly dead soldiers "coming home" from Iraq.

Those are some pretty good ways of curtailing freedom of speech. And they're each and everyone home grown right here in the good ol' United States of America.

So what's the deal with Venezuela, anyway?

So, pardon me if I'm just a little astounded by all this noise in the media, the Bush administration, the Senate and the House, about how Venezuela is "attacking" free speech and independent media by not renewing the broadcasting license of RCTV. Perhaps even more disturbing is that this ridiculous assertion is being repeated even among some persons on the Left.

Just last week the Senate passed a condemnation of Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez' refusal to renew the license. Senate Resolution 211 was sponsored by Richard Lugar, (R-IN) and Christopher Dodd (D-CT), with vocal, and disappointing, support from presidential contenders Hillary Clinton (D-NY) and Barak Obama (D-IL). Rep. Jerry Weller (R-IL) has introduced similar legislation into the House. Puerto Rico's delegate to the House, Republican Luis Fortuno has outspokenly supported this legislation, which is surprising, considering his complete lack of action or outcry when the FBI was harassing Puerto Rican journalists in 2006.

Anyway, who says bipartisanship is dead?

Joining in these condemnations are a whole host of so-called "press freedom" advocates, lead by the National Endowment for Democracy funded Reporters Without Borders. One would think that the iron hand has fallen and the crackdown has begun in Venezuela.

The facts, please?

Corporate media seems to regularly forget that along with freedom of press is the responsibility of presenting facts to back up their news reporting. Well, dear reader, you are in for a rare treat-a discussion of some actual facts.

The general situation is this: In April of 2002, there was a two-day, illegal coup carried out against Venezuela's electoral government, which involved the kidnapping and jailing of President Hugo Chavez. There were four major media outlets, along with others, who actively aided and abetted this coup (more later). In the intervening five years, none of them were closed, nor were any of their journalists incarcerated. Rather, the Chavez administration met with them, not to change their editorial slant, but to reach agreements preventing a repeat of such anti-democratic measure and the hyperbolic misrepresentation of facts, and also to discourage such continued infractions as the airing of pornography and cigarette commercials.

Another important fact is that the heads of the media-monopoly in Venezuela, including Marcel Granier -owner of RCTV, also participated in the economic sabotage that occurred between 2002-2003. Yet, no one went to prison for endangering the country's social and economic stability.

What is truly amazing is that it has taken five years for the Chavez administration to take action in any way against media that helped carry out this coup. Certainly, if the same thing happened in the United States, it wouldn't be tolerated. Just ask Aaron Burr or Timothy McVeigh what happens when folks plot against the existing, elected government. The fact is.you don't get away with it, you get punished, and pretty severely. Getting their broadcasting licenses renewed would be the least of their problems.

When RCTV's broadcasting license came up for review, Pres. Chavez decided, after exhaustive research and study, not to renew the license. Chavez is legally responsible for renewing such licenses under laws which were enacted before he became president. The reasons given for not renewing the license cite RCTV's participation in the coup, plus the fact that RCTV leads Venezuelan media in infractions of communications laws. RCTV's problems pre-date the Chavez administration, having been censured and closed repeatedly in previous presidential administrations. RCTV leads Venezuela in its violation of communications codes, with 652 infractions.

Another interesting fact is that our corporate media and distinguished Members of Congress have neglected to mention that on April of 2007 the government of Peru did not renew the broadcasting licenses of two TV stations and three radio stations for breaking their Radio and Television laws. It is obvious that Venezuela continues to be a target.

What, then, are the facts behind the charges made by the Chavez administration?

On the morning of April 11th, 2002, the first day of the coup, the anti-Bolivarian opposition had started a march from the headquarters of the state owned oil company. Across town, supporters of the Bolivarian Revolution were gathered outside the presidential palace. Breaking with its previously announced plan, the opposition changed directions and headed to the presidential palace, greatly increasing the chances of a violent confrontation between the two opposing sides.

During the midst of this confusion, shots rang out from the rooftops, where snipers were firing on both crowds, resulting in the deaths of 18 persons, with 150 wounded. Reports on the opposition's four largest TV stations indicated the violence was the result of pro-Bolivarian gunmen, and this became the immediate catalyst "justifying" the coup.

However, the testimony of eyewitnesses and videos taken from other angles show that a much different scenario was actually taking place. The following transcript is excerpted from the video documentary, The Revolution Will Not Be Televised, which was produced for television in Ireland. It sheds important light on the sequence of events. Note particularly the quotation included from RCTV News Correspondent, Andre Cesara.

NARRATOR: The opposition march was fast approaching and some in the vanguard seemed ready for a fight. With thousands of Chavez supporters still surrounding the palace a confrontation seemed imminent. Then at about 2:00 p.m., we saw the opposition march arrive. The army tried to act as a buffer between the two groups. [shouting]

NARRATOR: We moved back into the heart of the Chavez crowds when all of a sudden the firing started. [sirens]

NARRATOR: We couldn't tell where the shots were coming from, but people were being hit in the head. [gunshots]

NARRATOR: Soon it became clear that we were being shot at by snipers. One in four Venezuelans carry hand guns and soon some of the Chavez supporters began to shoot back in the direction the sniper fire seemed to be coming from.

WITNESS (in Spanish): One of the channels had a camera opposite the palace that captured images of people shooting from the bridge. It looks like they are shooting at the opposition march below, but you can see them, they themselves are ducking. They are clearly being shot at, but the shots of them ducking were never shown. The Chavez supporters were blamed. The images were manipulated and shown over and over again to say that Chavez supporters had assassinated innocent marchers.

ANDRE CESARA, RCTV journalist (in Spanish): Look at that Chavez supporter. Look at him empty his gun. That Chavez supporter has just fired on the unarmed peaceful protesters below.

NARRATOR: What the TV stations didn't broadcast was this camera angle which clearly shows the streets below were empty. The opposition march had never taken that route. With this manipulation, the deaths could now be blamed on Chavez.

There is no doubt, and no dispute, that RCTV and the three other largest corporate television stations (Globovision, Venevision, and Televen) aided and abetted the ensuing coup throughout the three day period it was being carried out. They knowingly broadcast false and manipulated information, including the lies that Bolivarian supporters instigated violence against demonstrators, and that Pres. Chavez, as a result, had willingly resigned and left the country. Pres. Chavez had not resigned. He had been kidnapped and was being held prisoner by traitors within the Venezuelan military.

During all this, RCTV hosted coup plotters, including co-leader Carlos Ortega of the corrupt and US government supported labor union, the CTV, and had broadcast Ortega's appeal rallying demonstrators to march on the presidential palace.

RCTV and its partners undertook a complete blackout on reporting any news relating to the more than a million citizens who had taken to the street and surrounded the presidential palace in defense of the democratically elected government of Venezuela. Rather than broadcasting this news, RCTV treated its viewers to reruns of Tom and Jerry cartoons and the movie Pretty Woman. Vice-Admiral Ramirez Perez spoke for all his fellow coup plotters when told a Venevision reporter, "We had a deadly weapon: the media. And now that I have the opportunity, let me congratulate you." His congratulations were premature, however, as multitudes of people in the street, with the aid of truly independent, community based media and patriots within the Venezuelan military were able to defeat this coup without firing a shot, returning Pres. Chavez to his rightful office on April 13, 2002.

 

[rockwool]

continued:

On the Job at RCTV-Eyewitness, Andres Izarra Speaks

If any doubts remain as to RCTV's complicity in this coup, the voice of one of its own producers should lay them all to rest. Andres Izarra had worked as the assignment editor in charge of Latin America for CNN before being hired by RCTV as news production manager for Venezuela's highest ranked newscast, El Observador. Izarra says, quite clearly, "We were told no pro-Chavez material was to be screened". Later, RCTV officials would maintain that they could not film pro-Bolivarian demonstrations for security reasons. Even if that were true, Izarra notes, footage of these demonstrations was available from sources such as CNN. RCTV also continued broadcasting reports that President Chavez had willfully resigned and left the country, even though Izarra notes that they were receiving news to the contrary, and that Mexico, Argentina, and France had all issued statements condemning the coup and refusing to recognize the new government. Conversely, the United States welcomed this illegal government.

Izarra says the last straw came for him when, "We had a reporter in Miraflores and knew that it had been retaken by the Chavistas.[but] the information blackout stood. That's when it was enough for me, and I decided to leave". Asked what he thought the response should be to this level of disinformation, Izarra replied, "I think their licenses should be revoked". Having had enough of corporate media's complicity in blocking news reportage, Izarra now serves as head of Telesur, the joint news channel broadcast by the nations of Venezuela, Argentina, Bolivia, and Cuba.

As Patrick McElwee, of Just Foreign Policy, points out: "It is frankly amazing that this company has been allowed to broadcast for 5 years after the coup, and that the Chavez government waited until its license expired to end its use of the public airwaves." Despite their participation in the coup, the Chavez administration entered into repeated negotiations with RCTV and its partners, Venevision, Globovision, and Television to make sure that such crass manipulation of the news would not occur again, and about other infractions. RCTV refused to reach any agreements.

Despite the nonrenewal of its broadcasting license, cable and satellite broadcasts will still be available to RCTV; moreover they will continue to broadcast through their two radio stations in Venezuela. The new broadcasting license is being given to a public station, TVes-Venezuela Social Television, which will run shows produced mainly by independent parties. The station will be controlled not by the government, but by a foundation of community members, with one chair reserved for a government representative. TVes also hopes to reach into some of the most remote areas of the nation, not covered before by RCTV.

The coup government and media freedom-an alternative?

There is, indeed, an example that shows a real alternative to how Pres. Chavez and the Bolivarian movement deals with freedom of the media and freedom of speech. The two-day coup government of Pedro Carmona revealed that alternative.

But, first, let's quickly review the general state of media freedom in Venezuela under the presidency of Hugo Chavez. Shortly after Chavez became president, media law was reformed so that it became legal for anyone who could broadcast to do so. In the United States, many fans of underground and independent radio speak fondly of "pirate" radio-low powered, but illegal stations broadcast from small, "renegade" transmitters. There are no "pirate" radio stations in Venezuela, because such stations are legal. Rather, there is a significant Community Media movement-community based and non-profit media production centers run locally by community volunteers.

Corporate and opposition media also have great freedom in Venezuela. In fact, the radio and television airwaves, and the print media as well, continue to be dominated by corporations which support the opposition. There is no shortage of negative opinions and portrayals of Chavez and the Bolivarian Revolution-in fact, these remain the standard among the for-profit news and entertainment industry. This concept is strange to those of us in the United States, where official party lines and major news sources are virtually indistinguishable from each other.

But while corporate and community media both retain enormous freedoms in Venezuela, the April 11-13th, 2002 coup, and the two day coup government, provide a much different example. Once interloper Pedro Carmona had declared himself President of Venezuela, among the very first actions taken by the coup government involved the suppression of Venezuela's non-corporate media. Police troops answering to Carmona raided and shut down Channel 8, the government TV station. They ordered the Catholic Church's Radio Fe y Alegria to play only music and not report national events, lest they also be shut down. Carmona's raiders also hit a number of Community Media centers, closing down, among others, TV Caricua, Catia TV, and Radio Perola. Fortunately, reporters from Catia TV and Radio Perola were able to escape and recapture their transmitters. Because of this, they were able to provide mobile broadcasts to the people of Venezuela of the news that RCTV and its partners were blacking out.

Another action taken by the Carmona government was to release the persons who had been arrested in connection with the sniper attacks that instigated the coup. Instead, coup forces arrested independent journalist Nicolas Rivera and accused him of participating in these attacks. The only weapon Rivera had had with him during these demonstrations was a tape recorder-obviously considered a threat by coup plotters. Rivera was freed after the two-day coup was defeated and democratic government was reestablished. However, the scars of his detention remained, with his face disfigured by the torture he had endured while incarcerated. Rivera's wife said that the forces that raided their home planted a sack of bullets on Rivera, beat both of them, and threatened to kill their children. Yet despite these attacks and threats to this journalist and his family, not one, single international organization in "defense" of press freedoms spoke out on behalf of Rivera. Perhaps it was in this case that Reporters Without Borders found its border.

Also silent about these attacks on freedom of speech and press were both houses of the US Congress, both parties, the Bush administration..no, there was no resolution of any kind condemning the attacks by the coup government on these freedoms. Could that be because coup leaders were funded by Congress, via USAID and the so-called National Endowment for Democracy, and were aided, abetted, and advised by the Bush Administration, the State Department, and the US military? Just maybe these factors were an influence.

Again: the Facts

While Representatives and Senators weep bipartisan crocodile tears about supposed threats to media rights in Venezuela; while US and Venezuelan corporate press crow about the "unfair" targeting of RCTV; while even some segments of the US Left express "concern" about press freedoms in Venezuela; an examination of the facts leads one to this clear conclusion: these folks are full of a substance that emanates from the hind end of a male bovine.

Fact: not renewing the broadcasting license of coup plotters, lawbreakers, and liars like RCTV is the kind of thing it takes to defend Venezuela and make it the haven of free speech, free media, and participatory democracy that it is today.

Want to learn more about the movement to change US policy toward Venezuela?
Visit www.vensolidarity.org and be sure and join the Emergency Response Network to receive regular action alerts!

 

[rockwool]

Forgot to give you the link to that text:

http://www.venezuelanalysis.com/articles.php?artno=2053

 

[Slugman]

dude... can you post some cliff notes for those of us with a job.

 

[Silver]

None of that changes the fact that Chavez is at this point a de facto dictator and an absolutely horrible leader. Now, as bad as Bush? Probably not, but only because Chavez never had all that goodwill to piss away.

Of course, had Bush something other than the worst president in history, maybe Chavez wouldn't have such a perfect distraction to rail against and blame for the fact that poverty is such a huge problem in a country where oil revenues have been incredible.

 

[rockwool]

None of that changes the fact that Chavez is at this point a de facto dictator and an absolutely horrible leader. Now, as bad as Bush? Probably not, but only because Chavez never had all that goodwill to piss away.

Of course, had Bush something other than the worst president in history, maybe Chavez wouldn't have such a perfect distraction to rail against and blame for the fact that poverty is such a huge problem in a country where oil revenues have been incredible.

A dictator because he rules on decree (allowed only on sertain areas if i'm not misstaken) which right was given to him by the democraticly elected parliament?

I will show you what Chavez has done for the poor and the sick poor and the illiterate poor with all those oil revenues. I know you will be glad as improvments have been huge, but the word about them have been lost on the way north some how.. Blackout?
But that is tomorrow. Gotta sleep.




Slugman, sorry man, I thought of it but the whole aritcle is full of facts that has led to the closing of RCTV. It would lead to more missunderstandings about what is actually going on. I will do so in the future when ever possible.


EDIT: The article might be easier to read on it's original site.

 

[ohio]

is the kind of thing it takes to defend Venezuela and make it the haven of free speech, free media, and participatory democracy that it is today.

emphasis added, but not without snorting half my burrito through my nose while doing so.

 

[rockwool]

emphasis added, but not without snorting half my burrito through my nose while doing so.

I think it shows why it is all that in the article, except for the participatory democracy thing (which the article anyway isn't about) that it just touches by showing how common comunity radios are, and how they are run while comparing them to commercial and pirate radios in the US.
Not to forget the new TV channel that took over RCTV's waves that is very participatory by various groups.

 

[Silver]

A dictator because he rules on decree (allowed only on sertain areas if i'm not misstaken) which right was given to him by the democraticly elected parliament?

Um, yeah. What do you think ruling by decree means? That's basically the very foundation of a dictatorship. It's certainly not the sign of a healthy democracy.

 

[rockwool]

Um, yeah. What do you think ruling by decree means? That's basically the very foundation of a dictatorship. It's certainly not the sign of a healthy democracy.

It is not the way you do things all too often around your neck of the woods so it will look strange because of that. It sertainly isn't the way we do things over here, as it's not even an option our prime minister has. It's just a different way of doing things whithin the frame of a democracy. And that Venezuela is a democracy, only a wicked man would deny.

Chavez has been elected by a majority of his countrymen on 3 different occasions (one of them was when new elections was demanded by the opposision), off which he in the last one got the vote of 60-62% of the population. That is in a country with a multi party system!

In this same last election the opposision desided not to partisipate as it would "in black and white" show how small they truly are. Judging by the word they are getting out one would think they're the vast majority of Venezuelans. That is only possible because a very few own a very big part of their media, and because of their friends with similar possisions around the world.

If you leave "walk over" on a football game, you can't later complain that the opposing team was awarded a 3-0 victory. They should have participated in the elections so that they within their parliamentary way would have stopped Chavez from gaining that power. It's their own parliament that once decided that it is democratic to rule on decree and made it possible for their president to do so.

Looking at the US I see many things that are signs of an unhealty democracy or even direct undemocratic, I see this in my own country too but not as many as in yours. In Venezuela I see major changes towards a growing participatory and open democracy in all ways.

Things are really getting better for the most of Venezuelans. Why do you think Richy Rich is making soo much noise? His oligopoly is decreasing by the day. Optimism for the future finally exists for little Pepe!

 

[fluff]

You know, I try and see Chavez as an evil, incompetent dictator but each time I research it there are a few things that prevent me from doing so. They are:

That he has won more than one election that would appear to be cleaner than those of the US or the UK.

That Venezuela's economic growth continues to defy the predictions and reporting of the World Bank and the IMF

That he is delvering on his manifesto.

Sure Venezuala has problems and Chavez has an ego, but show me a nation without problems and a humble leader.

He seems to me no more a dictator than Bush or Blair.

 

[fluff]

dude... can you post some cliff notes for those of us with a job.

I managed to read and comprehend it in less than 5 minutes, is that so much to ask?

Cliff notes:

RCTV conspired in a coup against Chavez

Chavez did not revoke their licence immediately

Their licence was not renewed (at renewal time) for multiple reasons.

Peru did similar and no one cared

The US practices censorship in other forms

The US hates Chavez

 

[valve bouncer]

You know, I try and see Chavez as an evil, incompetent dictator but each time I research it there are a few things that prevent me from doing so. They are:

That he has won more than one election that would appear to be cleaner than those of the US or the UK.

That Venezuela's economic growth continues to defy the predictions and reporting of the World Bank and the IMF

That he is delvering on his manifesto.

Sure Venezuala has problems and Chavez has an ego, but show me a nation without problems and a humble leader.

He seems to me no more a dictator than Bush or Blair.

I just can't see things ending well for Venezuela while he's running the show. I hope this is not the thin edge of the wedge and just an isolated incident. Agreed he shouldn't be called a dictator yet but does seem to be showing some dic-like tendencies.
Anyway Alexis should be along in a minute to give us all the view of the South American oligarchy who HC has at sixes and sevens at the moments. Always good for a laugh.

 

[valve bouncer]

I managed to read and comprehend it in less than 5 minutes, is that so much to ask?

Cliff notes:

RCTV conspired in a coup against Chavez

Chavez did not revoke their licence immediately

Their licence was not renewed (at renewal time) for multiple reasons.

Peru did similar and no one cared

The US practices censorship in other forms

The US hates Chavez

Who's this Cliff bastard and why's he so clever?

 

[rockwool]

Here's an article that's about the recent part of the dispute with Globovisión and CNN:

Venezuelan Government Accuses CNN and Globovisión of Inciting Violence

Tuesday, May 29, 2007

By: Chris Carlson - Venezuelanalysis.com



Caracas, May 29, 2007 (Venezuelanalysis.com)— The Venezuelan government accused CNN and the Venezuelan private channel Globovisión yesterday of using subliminal messages during their coverage of the RCTV protests to instigate violence and incite the assassination of President Hugo Chavez.

Communications Minister William Lara presented two videos as evidence of the supposed manipulations to the public and to the Attorney General's office to be investigated if the channels can be tried for "inciting to commit a crime." Both CNN and Globovisión denied the claims.

Lara presented the information yesterday, accusing the networks of a campaign against Venezuela and of associating the image of Hugo Chavez with images of violence and death. At a press conference in the Attorney General's office Lara showed a video of CNN coverage in which an image of Hugo Chavez appears next to the image of an Al Qaeda leader who was assassinated, and an image of protests in China. Lara said that experts who were consulted assured that the objective of this selection of images was to induce viewers to associate Chavez "with violence and death" and that it "breaks with the universal code of ethics in journalism."

The minister stated that they are considering taking the case before international organizations in order to counter an international campaign to discredit and attack Venezuela. Lara accused CNN of having a political bias against Venezuela since the moment Chavez appeared on the political scene and of "blatantly lying" to deceive and manipulate their viewers.

The second video presented by Lara was of the private Venezuelan channel Globovisión, during a broadcast of the program Aló Ciudadano, in which RCTV president Marcel Granier was being interviewed. While cutting to a commercial break the network showed images of the 1981 assassination of Pope John Paul II, accompanied by a song by Panamanian singer Ruben Blades that says "have faith, for this doesn't end here." In light of the recent protests against the government, the minister concluded that the video has the purpose of "inciting the assassination of the president, and this is what we have asked the Attorney General to investigate."

"As a journalist, I am worried by the poor circumstances through which Venezuelan journalism is passing," said the minister. "This steps on and destroys the Code of Ethics of any valid communicator here in Venezuela. Here what you see is the trafficking of lies."

The Ministry of Communications is requesting that the Attorney General's office begin an investigation of the issue under articles 283 and 300 of the legal code.

Globovisión denied the claims even as Minister Lara was presenting the case at the press conference. The private network divided the screen as Lara spoke, presenting on the other half of the screen the president of Globovision Alberto Federico Ravell denying the claims and challenging the minister to debate the issue.

CNN also denied the claims in a recent letter to the Venezuelan government. Vice president of CNN International Tony Maddox rejected any intention to associate the Venezuelan president with Al Qaeda or with events in China. The executive claimed that news reports that do not have any relation between them can be juxtaposed in a news segment just like they could in a newspaper or website without that intention.

CNN in Spanish and CNN International both categorically denied that they are carrying out a campaign to discredit or attack Venezuela.

Check this link to see the three CNN/Globovisión clips that yahoo of some reason chose not to link to, sertainly isn't because of lack of means. Factfull news?

All three: http://www.venezuelanalysis.com/news.php?newsno=2313

Just the Globovisión clip:

How subliminal messages work is well known, from ad firms to the dirty guys in Ray Ban pilot glasses use them. The missleading by showing demos in Mexico and saying it's in Venezuela is surely not "in the interest of the democracy and the people" is it?

 

[rockwool]

RCTV's former owner, Marcel Granier, said Chavez was driven by "a megalomaniacal desire to establish a totalitarian dictatorship" in an interview with US-based Univision television.

I find it funny how a stinkin wealthy massmedia owner (RCTV aswell as other media outlets) calls the President of his country a megalomaniac while he him self wants to dictate Venezuela through his possesions. A dictatorship is what he has backed and participated in since the day Chavez was first elected in -98.

The "government" of Carmona closed ALL opposision medias during their coup. Lead by example?

 

[Silver]

The "government" of Carmona closed ALL opposision medias during their coup. Lead by example?

If it was bad then, it's good now?

God knows I'm not going to be defending Bush, but that doesn't mean that anyone who says Bush is a moron is above criticism...

 

[rockwool]

If it was bad then, it's good now?

God knows I'm not going to be defending Bush, but that doesn't mean that anyone who says Bush is a moron is above criticism...

You're right, saying Bush is a moron just makes a person a bit more sympathetic. Chavez is sertainly not above critisism from anybody. Looking at how he is running his country and what he is doing to other LA and Carribean nations I must say that I can't think of anything right now that I can complain on.

One thing that he played wrong was while he was fishing votes for Venezuela to become a member of the Security Counsil. Obviously the majority of the world leadership wasn't ready for that aggressive language Chavez used. It backfired on him, not that he was wrong, nor that he could have anticipated it eather. The world is pretty fed up with the US, sadly the leaders aren't as much as their people.

Not that the rest of the world didn't say the same things just a few years ago but strangely stopped and forgot about all that on a particular date. The world leaders will take some time to become as they were before 9/11. But I doubt that as the "anti terror" politics suit all too many countries that want to put down sertain opposision.

If you read the first article I posted it gave a detailed brefing of how many years (5) and how many violations (+600?) it took before Chaves's government desided not to renew RCTV's licence to air via cable (note that they're still allowed to air via sattelite and some other way that I forgot + the internet + their radiostations and papers were never affected).

RCTV leads Venezuela in its violation of communications codes, with 652 infractions

Over those 5 years they had continous meetings with the media to change their behaviour but RCTV refused to follow the law. Not only did they DIRECT participate in the coup and should have been shut down, to borrow a FOX news phrase, because of that but they continued to violate the law by showing cigarette comercials and pornography.

What government in what country would have put up with that?

 

[Silver]

The thing is, it's not specifically RCTV getting shut down that is the problem. The problem is a huge concentration of media control in the hands of the government.

I have to admit I didn't read the article. Anytime the first paragraph includes Mumia Abu-Jamal, I zone right out.

 

[fluff]

The thing is, it's not specifically RCTV getting shut down that is the problem. The problem is a huge concentration of media control in the hands of the government.

I have to admit I didn't read the article. Anytime the first paragraph includes Mumia Abu-Jamal, I zone right out.

Concentration of media control is an issue not only when on the hands of the government. Rupert Murdoch is a problem for similar reasons, though reversed in effect.

 

[ohio]

Concentration of media control is an issue not only when on the hands of the government. Rupert Murdoch is a problem for similar reasons, though reversed in effect.

In fact, more of a problem than the state-run BBC 1 and 2 (of 4 broadcast stations... although cable changes the equation considerably).

 

[fluff]

In fact, more of a problem than the state-run BBC 1 and 2 (of 4 broadcast stations... although cable changes the equation considerably).

Interesting that you should mention that, oddly enough every few years the UK government accuses the BBC of being biased against them and threatens to remove state funding. Holds true for governments of all demonimations.

It's a funny old world.

 

[rockwool]

The thing is, it's not specifically RCTV getting shut down that is the problem. The problem is a huge concentration of media control in the hands of the government.

I have to admit I didn't read the article. Anytime the first paragraph includes Mumia Abu-Jamal, I zone right out.

Fluff's right, and it's not only when media is consetrated to a single owner like Berlusconi or whom ever, media is consentrated on the filthy rich. Both our societies wouldn't look as they do today and the mainstream politics wouldn't be as liberal and conservative as they're today if mainstream media was owned by the poor aswell.

In a true democratic society all and everbody should have the equal opportunity to have their voice heard. That means cons, libs, social dems, socialists, anarkists (both liberal and socialist), and probably nazis and other fascists too, not just the rich.

This should be regulated so that everybody has a paper, and in smaller places a few pages each. (something like that anyways)

In Venezuela, as I remember it from the documentary "The Revolution Will Not Be Televised", eight TV channels cooperated in the coup by synchronizing their programs. The're also a number of smaller provincial TV stations in existance.

There's only one channel that is state controled, channel 8, the new one, TVes, is run by a communnity:

Despite the nonrenewal of its broadcasting license, cable and satellite broadcasts will still be available to RCTV; moreover they will continue to broadcast through their two radio stations in Venezuela. The new broadcasting license is being given to a public station, TVes-Venezuela Social Television, which will run shows produced mainly by independent parties. The station will be controlled not by the government, but by a foundation of community members, with one chair reserved for a government representative. TVes also hopes to reach into some of the most remote areas of the nation, not covered before by RCTV.

In Sweden we have two channels that are controled by the state and another one that's funded commercially but still state controled. Greece has at least two state controled TV stations too.


Mumia, I know little of him; a black journalist on death row accused for murder. Think he clames he's innocent? Really vise person who I heard speak on an album with the Dead Prez (think).
Fill me in if you have the energy.

 

[Silver]

Concentration of media control is an issue not only when on the hands of the government. Rupert Murdoch is a problem for similar reasons, though reversed in effect.

Definitely. Having said that, I think state media control is more of a concern, due to the fact that states tend to have armies. Thankfully, in countries where the population can afford it and penetration is high enough, the internet is a bit of a leveling factor.

 

[rockwool]

Definitely. Having said that, I think state media control is more of a concern, due to the fact that states tend to have armies. Thankfully, in countries where the population can afford it and penetration is high enough, the internet is a bit of a leveling factor.

Yeah, but sadly an all too small leveling factor. State controled doesn't nessesarily mean governmental propaganda outlet. In Sweden channel 1 has always been right wing in its news coverage while channel 2's been social democratic. The third one, channel 4, is rightwing as all other commercial stations.

In Greece the goverment in charge runs their own crew in at least one of the state channels, maybe both. When the government is right wing this means that there's no news coverage from the opposision, as all private channels are right wing too.

States have armies, but the world is run by the wealthy and not by the politicians;Big oil wanted pipelines through A-stan etc.

 

[rockwool]

For those of you who like to read I'd like to recomend a book that I've read that's called "The Chávez Code - Cracking U.S. Intervention In Venezuela" by a Venezuelan-American lawyer called Eva Golinger.

http://www.amazon.com/Chavez-Code-Cracking-Intervention-Venezuela/dp/1566566479

In 2003 she began investigating US involvement in the April 2002 coup and has uncovered more than US$20 million in financing to anti-Chavez groups from the US government.

In October 2004, she obtained top-secret documents from the CIA, declassified under the Freedom of Informatioin Act, demonstrating prior knowledge and complicity in the coup aswell as in the three month strike in the winter of 2002-2003.

It's an easily read book with big text on 267 pages, of which 67 pages are of photo copies of the documents released under the Freedom of Information Act.



$tinkle, this is another excellent example of what US interests really mean, and how it is carried out today, that surpasses the Wikipedia text you read about Guatemala a while back.

DRB, this is for you too, many times have we argued and this is the best I can do to show my point of why and how I view the US as I do.

 

[ALEXIS_DH]

Peru did similar and no one cared

april 2007 2 tv licenses revoked??? wait what? i live here!

i´d appreciate if somebody tells me what those chanels were, because i wasnt aware of anything remotely similar to rctv happening on any tv station.

 

[fluff]

april 2007 2 tv licenses revoked??? wait what? i live here!

i´d appreciate if somebody tells me what those chanels were, because i wasnt aware of anything remotely similar to rctv happening on any tv station.

Not a clue mate - I was simply summarising the posted article. I have no primary source.

 

[rockwool]

april 2007 2 tv licenses revoked??? wait what? i live here!

i´d appreciate if somebody tells me what those chanels were, because i wasnt aware of anything remotely similar to rctv happening on any tv station.

You should e-mail James Jordan who wrote the article. I tried to get it for you but the site www.venezuelanalysis.com isn't working propperly at the moment. His e-mail adress should be at the bottom of the article.

 

[ohio]

april 2007 2 tv licenses revoked??? wait what? i live here!

i´d appreciate if somebody tells me what those chanels were, because i wasnt aware of anything remotely similar to rctv happening on any tv station.

You make it sound like you expect the news to reflect reality.

 

[rockwool]

Alexis, the only e-mail I found was venanalysis-at-gmail-dot-com I bet you could get James Jordan's e-mail from them.

 

[ALEXIS_DH]

You make it sound like you expect the news to reflect reality.

the word "revoked" seems kinda harsh.

i have not noticed any relevant change whatsover in the regular scheduled programs or affinity on the 7 over the air VHF tv chanels.
let alone something like replacing a tv station for a completely diferent one.

there are many UHF (yes, there is still UHF signal here) small tv stations (think pirate tv, religious tv stations, and neighborhoods chanels). maybe the guy means one of those, or maybe a major tv station changed hands (am unaware of that) although he make it sound as its something comparable to rctv.

 

[fluff]

Regardless of the particular example of Peru which I can find no evidence of, there is a remarkable contrast in the level of criticism levelled at the freedom of the press in Venezuala contrasted with the US allies in such countries as Saudi Arabia.

Not to mention such examples as Iraqi news outlets being banned by the US authorities because they don't like the content. Or TV stations being bombed by NATO for the same reason.

So what we really have is a clash of ideologies, neither of which can make any scientific claim to be better than the other. Bush hates Chavez and Chavez hates him right back.

In Venezuela the rich hate Chavez and the poor like him. The rich control the private media, Chavez controls the licensing...

 

[ALEXIS_DH]

Regardless of the particular example of Peru which I can find no evidence of, there is a remarkable contrast in the level of criticism levelled at the freedom of the press in Venezuala contrasted with the US allies in such countries as Saudi Arabia.

Not to mention such examples as Iraqi news outlets being banned by the US authorities because they don't like the content. Or TV stations being bombed by NATO for the same reason.

So what we really have is a clash of ideologies, neither of which can make any scientific claim to be better than the other. Bush hates Chavez and Chavez hates him right back.

In Venezuela the rich hate Chavez and the poor like him. The rich control the private media, Chavez controls the licensing...

there is a school of thought in south america, best represented by the old peruvian president General Odria (think a fujimori of the 50s).
"you dont eat democracy".

people (as in significant numbers) are willing to exchange civil rights, liberties for a steady provider, and even willing to accept and even support authoritarism in most flavors if that means any kind of stability.
thats south american nature i guess.

 

[fluff]

there is a school of thought in south america, best represented by the old peruvian president General Odria (think a fujimori of the 50s).
"you dont eat democracy".

people (as in significant numbers) are willing to exchange civil rights, liberties for a steady provider, and even willing to accept and even support authoritarism in most flavors if that means any kind of stability.
thats south american nature i guess.

Perhaps they are right. We seem to be given the conclusion that democracy is the solution to many problems, that it is inherently the best form of government. Yet there is no reason to suppose that this must be the case. There are certainly good arguments for thinking that it is superior in some respects, but it also appears to be worse in others.

From what I can read Venezuela could be a lot worse off than they are under Chavez.