[Orvan]

Ok, drove out to lunch with a friend and saw an interesting bumper sticker on a non-denominal christian car (it said it on the driver side door panel)..

God is Lord
Jesus is Lord

my question is, aren't the two separate in essence (or concept, if you like)? If God is Almighty then Jesus is just the subordinate (son) right...or is that differently approach in different christian sects? Erase my ignorance pls...

 

[Babar]

Trinity...

 

[Orvan]

Originally posted by Babar
Trinity...

I skipped and failed Bible Studies when I was a kid...

So I'm lost...

 

[fluff]

It very much depends on sect.

Roman Catholic and Anglican go with the trinity - 3 aspects of the same dude.

Others disagree.

Biblical support of the trinity is sketchy to say the least but when did that ever stop anyone? Most times if people don't like stuff they'll ignore it. In extreme cases they will add their own book to the bible and amend the whole thing. (Book of Mormon anyone?)

 

[bikebabe]

Originally posted by fluff
It very much depends on sect.

Biblical support of the trinity is sketchy to say the least but when did that ever stop anyone? Most times if people don't like stuff they'll ignore it. In extreme cases they will add their own book to the bible and amend the whole thing. (Book of Mormon anyone?)

BOM- 3 separate entities: the Father, the Son and the holy ghost/spirit...at least that's what I understood.

As an ex-Mormon, the BOM is an additional scripture but doesn't "change" anything that's written in the bible. Mormons use the King James Version of the bible along with the Book of Mormon, Pearl of Great Price and Docterine and Covenants.

 

[eric strt6]

Originally posted by Orven
Ok, drove out to lunch with a friend and saw an interesting bumper sticker on a non-denominal christian car (it said it on the driver side door panel)..

God is Lord
Jesus is Lord

my question is, aren't the two separate in essence (or concept, if you like)? If God is Almighty then Jesus is just the subordinate (son) right...or is that differently approach in different christian sects? Erase my ignorance pls...

the driver has split personality disorder

 

[Orvan]

Originally posted by bikebabe


BOM- 3 separate entities: the Father, the Son and the holy ghost/spirit...at least that's what I understood.

As an ex-Mormon,

are you a blonde? :devil:

anyways, I do recall the trinity factor... Brought up as a Catholic boy (never a good one at that), the trinity is the sign of our cross (In the name of the father, the son and the holy ghost)... Father is God, Son is Jesus....who's the Holy Ghost (and for those about to fire away with fart jokes, stop it)...?

As a Catholic, we had to pray to so many figures including the godawful amount of Saints.... as a kid my Mom advised me (and she never pushed..which was cool) to say some prayers for the good things in life to God.... My teacher condemned me several times and told me to ask forgiveness from the Blessed Virgin Mary...also, to pray to Saint Thomas of Acquaintas (sp) for the safe travel when we head out on field trips....then our school pastor emphasized on following the footsteps of Jesus and pray to him.... Life as a 10 yr old bastard was complicated enough... I wish Catholism was a lot more simple bec there were so many cute girls in our church then....

 

[fourgivn1]

Some believe that Father/Son/Holy Spirit are 3 separate but equal entities. Others believe (as I do) that they are all manifestations (I don't mean manifestations as in ghosts, boogedy boo *L*) of God...just three different 'aspects' of God. This is one of those areas that pretty much all Christians will never agree on.

 

[Orvan]

Originally posted by fourgivn1
Some believe that Father/Son/Holy Spirit are 3 separate but equal entities. Others believe (as I do) that they are all manifestations (I don't mean manifestations as in ghosts, boogedy boo *L*) of God...just three different 'aspects' of God. This is one of those areas that pretty much all Christians will never agree on.

yup...
I wish our church used better red wine during communion too...

 

[Babar]

Most chruches these days uses grape juice ! damn it bring back the WINE !

 

[Orvan]

Originally posted by Babar
Most chruches these days uses grape juice ! damn it bring back the WINE !

that's just plain blasphemy...what, churches losing their liqour licenses...but they're served free

 

[fluff]

Originally posted by bikebabe


BOM- 3 separate entities: the Father, the Son and the holy ghost/spirit...at least that's what I understood.

As an ex-Mormon, the BOM is an additional scripture but doesn't "change" anything that's written in the bible. Mormons use the King James Version of the bible along with the Book of Mormon, Pearl of Great Price and Docterine and Covenants.

Would you prefer that I use the word modify? Let's face it if you add something to a body of work you are changing it.

If I pass a new law or an addition to the constitution would that not be a change? It's semantics.

 

[bikebabe]

Originally posted by fluff


Would you prefer that I use the word modify? Let's face it if you add something to a body of work you are changing it.

Personally, I don't care...hence the ex. However, you will meet strong opposition within the church if you suggest that they modify/change/whatever the bible. I agree with you that adding something to a body of work is changing it. The beliefs behind the BOM, D&C, etc are that prophecy doesn't stop with the Bible and we are continued to be instructed by God on how to live our lives. Like I said, I'm out of it though and probably not the best person to discuss that with due to my bias....:devil:

 

[bikebabe]

Originally posted by Orven


are you a blonde? :devil:

Ahhh S*$t...what gave it away?

 

[BikeGeek]

I was taught that the Trinity, God, Jesus, and the Holy Spirit, were different aspects of one, like someone previously mentioned.

One thing I always wondered though is that if they are one, who did Christ pray to while hanging on the cross?

 

[fourgivn1]

Originally posted by BikeGeek
One thing I always wondered though is that if they are one, who did Christ pray to while hanging on the cross?

That's easy. He prayed to God.

If you remember, what he said on the cross was "My God, My God, why have you forsaken me?" (I believe it is translated better as My Father, My Father, why have you forsaken me? I'll have to go research that..I could be wrong.)

Jesus was obviously crucified so that he could bear the sins of all humanity. What essentially occurred, was that God's spirit - the perfect communion that Jesus had with his Father/God at all times - was removed as He hung on the cross. For Jesus, considering His 'Father' was God, complete and total separation from God is the worst torture/punishment that Jesus could ever have endured. I honestly believe (I could be wrong...quite a few Christians believe this) that Jesus died on the cross, and then went to Hell for 3 days, and THEN came back.

 

[Tweek]

Originally posted by Orven



As a Catholic, we had to pray to so many figures including the godawful amount of Saints.... as a kid my Mom advised me (and she never pushed..which was cool) to say some prayers for the good things in life to God.... My teacher condemned me several times and told me to ask forgiveness from the Blessed Virgin Mary...also, to pray to Saint Thomas of Acquaintas (sp) for the safe travel when we head out on field trips....then our school pastor emphasized on following the footsteps of Jesus and pray to him.... Life as a 10 yr old bastard was complicated enough... I wish Catholism was a lot more simple bec there were so many cute girls in our church then....

Ah, yes -- the mystery of the Holy Trinity. I think it's been answered already -- 3 different but equal bodies in 1 entity. Anyway Orven, as far as all the Saints go, let's just say God knows how to delegate . Thankfully, my Grandma's still around so I know who the heck to pray to (intercede) for whatever I need. For all I know, there's probably a patron saint for chainrings. All in all, if you pray directly to Jesus, you can't go wrong. ("No one comes to the Father except through me.")

 

[BikeGeek]

Originally posted by fourgivn1


That's easy. He prayed to God.

Ok, maybe I didn't explain myself very well. I never understood it because I was taught that God, Jesus, and the Holy Spirit were literally one in the same. If they were one in the same, who was He praying to, Himself?

I just didn't make sense with what I was taught.

It's confusing in the same way as in the old religion when the God would couple with the Goddess at Beltane that she might give birth to the God at Yule. Huh?

 

[BikeGeek]

Originally posted by Tweek


Ah, yes -- the mystery of the Holy Trinity. I think it's been answered already -- 3 different but equal bodies in 1 entity. Anyway Orven, as far as all the Saints go, let's just say God knows how to delegate . Thankfully, my Grandma's still around so I know who the heck to pray to (intercede) for whatever I need. For all I know, there's probably a patron saint for chainrings. All in all, if you pray directly to Jesus, you can't go wrong. ("No one comes to the Father except through me.")

So are the saints just the embodiment of different aspects of God?

 

[TickTock]

Man, I am so sick of god putting his dirty little fingers all over everything. Hes like a little kid wanting to put everything in his mouth.

I saw a show on tv last sunday by some church organization about the "evils" of teaching evolution in the classroom when there isnt any "real proof" of it. Proof? Isnt their whole belief system based on the lack of proof?

Waste of my time.

 

[BikeGeek]

Originally posted by TickTock
Man, I am so sick of god putting his dirty little fingers all over everything. Hes like a little kid wanting to put everything in his mouth.

I saw a show on tv last sunday by some church organization about the "evils" of teaching evolution in the classroom when there isnt any "real proof" of it. Proof? Isnt their whole belief system based on the lack of proof?

Waste of my time.

You're welcome to your opinion, as is everyone, but there are some interesting ideas and questions in this thread, please don't turn it into a "religion is dumb" thread. You could always start a new thread. That's what this forum is for.

 

[TickTock]

Ouch i re-read my post and it came off sounding like i was saying that this thread was a waste of my time. Didnt mean it to sound like that at all.

I actually like the discussion so far. I always wondered about the whole jesus-god-holyspirit cross pollination thing.

Bumper stickers can be so interesting. If I had a dime for every time i have been cut off by someone with a "take it easy" bumper sticker I would have myself a nice new dh rig by now.

My question is: What exactly did the car state about its being non-denominational with those stickers on there? I would like to see that.

Sorry if I offended anyone, its still pretty early.

 

[BikeGeek]

Originally posted by TickTock
Sorry if I offended anyone, its still pretty early.

No offense taken. I just didn't want to derail the train, so-to-speak.

 

[Tweek]

Originally posted by BikeGeek


So are the saints just the embodiment of different aspects of God?

I wouldn't say embodiment, but more champions of a cause or situation. Call it "middle management" if you will, but it's worked for me. Saints were once humans (except for the Archangels), so they never had divinity like God/Trinity. Once dead, in heaven and canonized, they're still presumably like everyone else will be. It's just that they're recognized by Catholics (and Anglicans?) as intercedents usually because they've done great things for the faith. As far as what they intercede for, I'm not sure how that's figured out. It doesn't always have something to do with what happened in their life on earth.

 

[BikeGeek]

In a sense, it's much like the ancient pagan religions where they called upon a different god for different things, yet worshipped a "main god" as well.

Not that I'm equating the saints with God, but if you look at the ancient Greek religion, for example. They had a "boss god," Zues, and then had a god of nature, a god of wine, of war, of animals, and of many other aspects of life in that time. All these gods were subordinates of Zues. It's very similar to the Saint structure within the Catholic church.

Interesting stuff.

 

[Orvan]

Originally posted by BikeGeek


So are the saints just the embodiment of different aspects of God?

I never really embraced the whole concept of Saints....I have more reverance for martyrs than saints....Aren't the (originally established) saints just Jesus' posse for the most part? Wait, is Joan of Arc a saint? I may change my mind then if she is...

as far as ticktock's question about the non-denominatio sticker on the car, it was a Church's Name (forgot...something local) and "Non-Denominal Church" at the bottom of it...