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"lord save us from obama care"

TheMontashu

Pourly Tatteued Jeu
Mar 15, 2004
5,556
0
I'm homeless
were the words I saw on a bumper sticker. I had to ask myself the hypothetical "what would Jesus do" and remembered the story where he helped the blind beggar to see, entirely free of charge. Which has me wondering, how can the christian right be that blind to the words of their holy book. They spend countless time and energy trying to legislate women's vaginas and what gay people can do all in the name of Jesus. Yet when it comes down to doing the actions of their supposed savior they get too caught up in merica and freedom. Am I missing something here?
 

stevew

unique white person
Sep 21, 2001
32,242
3,066
where in the torah does it say fags keep your mouth shut?
 

$tinkle

Expert on blowing
Feb 12, 2003
14,591
5
I had to ask myself the hypothetical "what would Jesus do" and remembered the story where he helped the blind beggar to see, entirely free of charge.

Am I missing something here?
perhaps the meaning of "entirely free of charge"

but let me guess: the occupants of the vehicle you saw this sticker on had an avg BMI in the high 40's
 

sanjuro

Tube Smuggler
Sep 13, 2004
17,411
0
SF
In many ways, Obamacare is the Democrats' fault.

By creating a compromise bill whose most infamous part is the mandate to buy health insurance, I barely understand what Obamacare does.

Now imagine the idiots who vote for Bush and will for Romney, what they might think.
 

ALEXIS_DH

Tirelessly Awesome
Jan 30, 2003
5,382
175
Lima, Peru, Peru
amazed at how many people in the US are AGAINST being covered by medical insurance.

hell, even in south america health insurance was universal, way before auto-insurance was mandatory....
 

JohnE

filthy rascist
May 13, 2005
12,645
664
Front Range, dude...
amazed at how many people in the US are AGAINST being covered by medical insurance.

hell, even in south america health insurance was universal, way before auto-insurance was mandatory....
But this is never the frother argument. It always come down to "You cant force me to buy something" and the classic "I dont want to pay for her/your/their insurance." Greedy, selfish, self serving pricks is all...
 

$tinkle

Expert on blowing
Feb 12, 2003
14,591
5
But this is never the frother argument. It always come down to "You cant force me to buy something" and the classic "I dont want to pay for her/your/their insurance." Greedy, selfish, self serving pricks is all...
would the same apply to:
- mortgage ins
- flood ins
- fire ins
- car ins
- dental ins
- unemployment ins
- renter's ins

b/c the truth is, i don't want my rates to go up or the gov't dip into the general fund to cover the cost of individuals who irresponsibly participated in various economies w/o sufficiently covering their risk.

does that make **me** selfish/greedy/pricky, or those who demand coverage to be further absorbed by gen pop?

do i misunderstand your point?
 

TheMontashu

Pourly Tatteued Jeu
Mar 15, 2004
5,556
0
I'm homeless
You sir are dumber than me once again

We're ranked 37th in care, and we pay twice what every one else does, we're also in the mid 30s ranking in infant mortality and life expectancy. I have specifically cited them for you in the recent past, so I wont bother. But you're once again proving how great conservatives are at ignoring facts

No it just makes you a tard, statistics show universal healthcare works better at about half the cost. So you can get over your greed, help some others out, AND help yourself by having your healthcare costs cut in half overall
 
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JohnE

filthy rascist
May 13, 2005
12,645
664
Front Range, dude...
Stink, what happend when you get flooded or burned out? You lose your job or you suddenly cant handle your mortgage? Who do you turn to? Uncle Sam. If it aint FEMA or unemployment, there is a federal agency that you (The metaphorical you...) hold out your hand to for some kibble.

And renters, car and dental insurance are just good things to have for worst case scenarios. I hate the insurance agency, its a huge scam, but in our world it has become a neccesary evil. Health insurance is simply another good thing to have...if you dont, and something catastrophic happens, what happens to that life that the right so vehemently supported the creation of? You have to be born, but after that who cares?

If we can wage 2 wars and spend mega trillions of American taxpayer money oppressing, er, freeing the rest of the world (Who just happen to have oil under their feet...) why cant we pay for health care for our citizens?
 

$tinkle

Expert on blowing
Feb 12, 2003
14,591
5
We're ranked 37th in care, and we pay twice what every one else does, we're also in the mid 30s ranking in infant mortality and life expectancy. I have specifically cited them for you in the recent past, so I wont bother. But you're once again proving how great conservatives are at ignoring facts
we pay substantially more due in great part to our litigious society
our infant mortality rate is higher than most b/c we take a swing at saving life for premies (compare the nations w/ socialized medicine to ours in availability & use of a NICU)
in turn, our life expectancy rates are lowered by higher infant mortality

get curious.
find out why those items you cited are so
No it just makes you a tard, statistics show universal healthcare works better at about half the cost. So you can get over your greed, help some others out, AND help yourself by having your healthcare costs cut in half overall
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/health/7896737/Cash-crisis-in-NHS-leaves-patients-lying-on-operating-tables.html
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2000824/NHS-indignity-Peter-Thompsons-body-ignored-hours-corridor-Edale-House-unit.html
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1219853/My-husband-beaten-cancer-doctors-wrongly-told-returned-let-die.html
http://www.thelocal.se/31130/20101229/
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/earth/earthnews/9184693/Surgery-bans-elderly-patient-over-her-carbon-footprint.html
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/england/suffolk/8385889.stm
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-1199714/A-9-month-wait-arthritis-treatment-Delay-mean-lifetime-agony-victims.html
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1270160/Betrayed-NHS-Doctor-gave-life-health-service-refused-vital-cancer-drugs-save-her.html
 

$tinkle

Expert on blowing
Feb 12, 2003
14,591
5
Stink, what happend when you get flooded or burned out? You lose your job or you suddenly cant handle your mortgage? Who do you turn to? Uncle Sam. If it aint FEMA or unemployment, there is a federal agency that you (The metaphorical you...) hold out your hand to for some kibble.
this is just one of the huge problems w/ our insinuated gov't: it's now so bloated that the term 'safety net' has come to mean, 'i got laid off last week & don't want my revenue stream cut, and in fact the gravy should flow for 2 yrs, with no meaningful accountability towards ME', i.e., finding a job.

with the gov't effectively replacing community, who cares if someone falls on hard times? as you pointed out, uncle sam will step in. that mentality naturally leads to "see a chic on the side of the road w/ a busted car? uncle sam will fix it". replace any scenario where we were raised to step in out of being our brother's keeper. the gov't didn't teach me to bring a tool kit, tubes, and plenty of h2o on my rides, but i'm sure the number who demand to get rescued from their self-induced peril is growing. makes me sick.
And renters, car and dental insurance are just good things to have for worst case scenarios. I hate the insurance agency, its a huge scam, but in our world it has become a neccesary evil. Health insurance is simply another good thing to have...if you dont, and something catastrophic happens, what happens to that life that the right so vehemently supported the creation of? You have to be born, but after that who cares?

If we can wage 2 wars and spend mega trillions of American taxpayer money oppressing, er, freeing the rest of the world (Who just happen to have oil under their feet...) why cant we pay for health care for our citizens?
all solid points

and here's mine: obamacare should be available for those who choose it (and it is in some form already: medicaid/medicare), but to mandate it is where i object. i also object to the way the free market is dismissed as purely greedy, for it's counter-intuitive: if i offer less-than-stellar service, the masses will leave for another option. if there's no other option (either through monopoly or gov't fiat), who's best served?

who knows? maybe obamacare can be everything it claims, but i'd like to know there's motivation to perform w/ all the "greed" of free market alternatives (i.e., hire the best & the brightest). if i get negligent care at any part of the system, someone should be sacked, with an administrative forensic review to follow.

remember, my gig is the army's Physical Eval Board, a form of socialized medicine. currently, there's little to no accountability for underperformers, mostly due to the sheer volume of patients. now magnify that by a couple orders of magnitude, and make sure to include ppl who aren't qualified to join the army, for a battery of reasons that mostly need some form of prolonged medical care.
 

norbar

Turbo Monkey
Jun 7, 2007
9,690
394
Warsaw :/
amazed at how many people in the US are AGAINST being covered by medical insurance.

hell, even in south america health insurance was universal, way before auto-insurance was mandatory....
Because im 'merica everyone is a future millionare. Didn't you know that? You would too be against some people steeling your future milions while you work your moonshine business into the stock market ;)
 

ALEXIS_DH

Tirelessly Awesome
Jan 30, 2003
5,382
175
Lima, Peru, Peru
Because im 'merica everyone is a future millionare. Didn't you know that? You would too be against some people steeling your future milions while you work your moonshine business into the stock market ;)

and funnily enough, statiscally, the states with the lowest social mobility; are the ones where this belief seems to be the strongest (or at least, where opposition to obama care is the strongest)...
 

norbar

Turbo Monkey
Jun 7, 2007
9,690
394
Warsaw :/
What do you expect when the gap between the rich and the poor is so big on all fronts they might as well be Angola.
 

Pesqueeb

bicycle in airplane hangar
Feb 2, 2007
28,947
4,638
Riding the baggage carousel.
and funnily enough, statiscally, the states with the lowest social mobility; are the ones where this belief seems to be the strongest (or at least, where opposition to obama care is the strongest)...
Because im 'merica everyone is a future millionare. Didn't you know that? You would too be against some people steeling your future milions while you work your moonshine business into the stock market ;)
What do you expect when the gap between the rich and the poor is so big on all fronts they might as well be Angola.

It's amazing to me that you guys can see this, yet half of Americans can't. :banghead:

 

norbar

Turbo Monkey
Jun 7, 2007
9,690
394
Warsaw :/
I probobably wouldn't be interested if an average Pole didn't think merica is great and we need moar free marketz to be like merica. In the end you have shiny cars and nice buildings in teh movies with the Governator.
I will stop being interested when people stop thinking they would rather live in Detroit than in Munich or Geneva.
 

TheMontashu

Pourly Tatteued Jeu
Mar 15, 2004
5,556
0
I'm homeless

TheMontashu

Pourly Tatteued Jeu
Mar 15, 2004
5,556
0
I'm homeless
I probobably wouldn't be interested if an average Pole didn't think merica is great and we need moar free marketz to be like merica. In the end you have shiny cars and nice buildings in teh movies with the Governator.
I will stop being interested when people stop thinking they would rather live in Detroit than in Munich or Geneva.
Hey man, they just tore down like half of detroit, it's less terrible now!!!

Well as long as we're quoting from Leviticus...

"You shall not make any cuts in your body for the dead nor make any tattoo marks on yourselves: I am the LORD." Leviticus 19:28

:D
Yea, but that's in with kosher law that applies to eating bacon, as a Jew you can in fact still be buried in a Jewish cemetery
 

norbar

Turbo Monkey
Jun 7, 2007
9,690
394
Warsaw :/
dont forget sao paulo or rio....
where a corolla is US$40k, a rav4 is $70k, a V10c (frame only) goes for over $5k....... hell, i remember a snack and a beer at the airport in sao paulo was a bit more expensive than having a snack a few drinks at narita´s airport... (!)
That's surprising. Why is it that exepsive there? It's not an isolated country. Is income disparity in Brasil the same as in Russia?

Warsaw is quite expensive in terms of housing but all other prices are not that bad (airport is expensive but that's a ****ty airport owner).
 

JohnE

filthy rascist
May 13, 2005
12,645
664
Front Range, dude...
this is just one of the huge problems w/ our insinuated gov't: it's now so bloated that the term 'safety net' has come to mean, 'i got laid off last week & don't want my revenue stream cut, and in fact the gravy should flow for 2 yrs, with no meaningful accountability towards ME', i.e., finding a job.

with the gov't effectively replacing community, who cares if someone falls on hard times? as you pointed out, uncle sam will step in. that mentality naturally leads to "see a chic on the side of the road w/ a busted car? uncle sam will fix it". replace any scenario where we were raised to step in out of being our brother's keeper. the gov't didn't teach me to bring a tool kit, tubes, and plenty of h2o on my rides, but i'm sure the number who demand to get rescued from their self-induced peril is growing. makes me sick.
all solid points

and here's mine: obamacare should be available for those who choose it (and it is in some form already: medicaid/medicare), but to mandate it is where i object. i also object to the way the free market is dismissed as purely greedy, for it's counter-intuitive: if i offer less-than-stellar service, the masses will leave for another option. if there's no other option (either through monopoly or gov't fiat), who's best served?

who knows? maybe obamacare can be everything it claims, but i'd like to know there's motivation to perform w/ all the "greed" of free market alternatives (i.e., hire the best & the brightest). if i get negligent care at any part of the system, someone should be sacked, with an administrative forensic review to follow.

remember, my gig is the army's Physical Eval Board, a form of socialized medicine. currently, there's little to no accountability for underperformers, mostly due to the sheer volume of patients. now magnify that by a couple orders of magnitude, and make sure to include ppl who aren't qualified to join the army, for a battery of reasons that mostly need some form of prolonged medical care.
I am picking up what you are putting down...and agree for the most part. But there will always be those who abuse the system and/or play dumb when bad stuff happens. "Well I was going to sign up for O-care, but I forgetted...take care of me anyway" and this is after he takes all the Tea Party signs out of his yard...

Accountability is the key. I am a career seriviceman because I beleive in accountability for myself and my family. Not out of love for my country or fellow man (Although that is there...liberal and all.), but because of love and respect for myself and my family and the will to take care of them. Not all are taught to be responsible for their selves or their actions, and thats a damn shame.

Welfare reform is a hot ticket. Unfortunatley it is mostly all at the state level, is it not?
 

norbar

Turbo Monkey
Jun 7, 2007
9,690
394
Warsaw :/
I am picking up what you are putting down...and agree for the most part. But there will always be those who abuse the system and/or play dumb when bad stuff happens. "Well I was going to sign up for O-care, but I forgetted...take care of me anyway" and this is after he takes all the Tea Party signs out of his yard...

Accountability is the key. I am a career seriviceman because I beleive in accountability for myself and my family. Not out of love for my country or fellow man (Although that is there...liberal and all.), but because of love and respect for myself and my family and the will to take care of them. Not all are taught to be responsible for their selves or their actions, and thats a damn shame.

Welfare reform is a hot ticket. Unfortunatley it is mostly all at the state level, is it not?
That is very important. Another argument I really don't like is since people abuse the current welfare system lets go to the other end of the spectrum and free market 80000V. Look how well it did work in Iceland, South America and other Free market experiments. All countries who went to the right of America either went bankrupt or are on the unreasonably expensive to live list.

Stinkie is also wrong that if one free market option won't work people will find another. The truth is a best earning option always wins and that doesn't mean best for the people. If the market decides a sub par level of basic human needs fulfillment is more profitable it will do that. So Poor people will get worse education, health service etc. That will increase the gaps even more and in the long term you have to live in walled communities. Not a good idea.

I really can't understand why it has either to be cut taxez and get our free marketz or give money to everyone. We need social reforms that support unemployed people but also force them to get back to the workforce. A good example is the most current ruling party in Poland. They are not the brightest people in the world and promised tax cuts before the crisis but went the other way to save the budget - now Poland is one of the few countries who went through the crisis without our economy shrinking at any point.
On the other hand we had (and still need more) reforms that loosen up bureaucracy and deregulate some markets.