[kidwoo]

I'm highly curious about that tire now...sounds like it would work well for what I ride - but I still have this phobia of Kenda tires. To me they are synonymous with NeverGrip and AlwaysFlat

Tell me about it. That's why I wen't "sqeeeee!!!!" when I first saw a picture of these things. This is pretty close to the tire I've had in my mind for years. Just the shlt you need on a tread and nothing else to get in the way of the vital bits doing their job. I think I might have even had something to do with marshall getting them

 

[mtg]

This is an interesting thread; I've been running UST High Rollers for a couple seasons on my DH bike, but I'm tired of the Maxxpro tires puncturing and the Supertacky tires wearing out so fast.
Does anybody have any riding time on the Michelin Wild Gripr?
Also, that BBG looks pretty sweet. I like a nice channel between middle and side knobs but was always a bit timid about the BBG- it looked like you had to ride as fast as Lopes for it to work. But, I guess not. If they decide to make a 2.5 DTC UST, I will try it.

 

[dbozman]

Hmmm. I personally have nothing but good things to say about Maxxis tires in general and the Minion DHF/High Roller combo in particular.

And I've had nothing but bad experience here in AZ gnar with Kenda tires (paper sidewalls, tearing knobs, won't seal tubeless properly).

However, I am certainly a geek for new tires and am interested in hearing more about the BBG for my 6-inch trail bike.

 

[Pslide]

And I've had nothing but bad experience here in AZ gnar with Kenda tires (paper sidewalls, tearing knobs, won't seal tubeless properly).

I will say that the lower sidewall (near the rim) is paper thin on these BBGs despite weighing 800g. The upper sidewall and tread area have good rubber coverage.

mtg: My 2.35 BBG was nearly identical to a 2.5 Minion in width. I don't see the need for anything bigger, but I don't ride a lot of burly rocks.

Can't comment on durability yet...don't have enough miles on mine.

 

[Cant Climb]

I'm highly curious about that tire now...sounds like it would work well for what I ride - but I still have this phobia of Kenda tires. To me they are synonymous with NeverGrip and AlwaysFlat

The single ply flat.

For trail riding need crazy high PSI...approaching 50 psi to not flat 3 times per ride.

 

[Acadian]

I will say that the lower sidewall (near the rim) is paper thin on these BBGs despite weighing 800g. .

The single ply flat.

For trail riding need crazy high PSI...approaching 50 psi to not flat 3 times per ride.

alright - scratch that tire off my list.

 

[kidwoo]

Yeah kenda tires kind of suck durability-wise for sure. The lopes and telonix dh tires I've had came off my bike because the sidewalls were tearing before the tread wore out. That's why I'm ONLY interested in the UST versions for my trail bike because I figure they'll be a little burlier. When they first were listed, Kenda had what looked like a dh version they were going to make. They're gone now unfortunately.


Has anyone used the kenda UST trailbike tires? I've never even looked at them but had a trustworthy buddy tell me they actually tend to be pretty stout.




Still pretty stoked on that new high roller replacement coming out from maxxis.

 

[marshalolson]

35 psi for me, with tubes. i would for sure not ride this tire tubeless. only the UST version setup tubeless. but i have had no flats so far, maybe 40-45 rides on them. 205lbs, ride my reign x like its a dh bike, on generally rough terrain, but tearing sidewalls is not common for me, really ever.

and kidwoo, pat yourself on the back, certainly, but i did see them at interbike 2009 and have waiting for them since. but i only saw "rear tire" at the time. you just convinced me to stick it up front too

 

[marshalolson]

if kenda cant' get their asses in gear on the DH version, it will likely be michelin comp 16's or whatever they are called now for me once i burn though my conti stash.

 

[kidwoo]

if kenda cant' get their asses in gear on the DH version, it will likely be michelin comp 16's or whatever they are called now for me once i burn though my conti stash.

Honestly, even if they do come out with a dh version, I'm not sure I'd want it. Because they'll do a full sticky rubber version and those center knobs are going to squirm. I still haven't even seen one of these in person so how thick are all those little centerknob ridges? It seems like they're going to be pretty lame in anything but a dtc, or a least a dual compound layered up with harder material underneath to cut down on deformation.

That's the reason those lopes tires suck. The sideknobs on those tires are really good but those little disc centerknobs are too soft. Kind of true for the telonix too......

 

[marshalolson]

i thought the telonix side knobs in the stick-e rubber squirmed too much. may be true on this tire too.

kidwoo, you are exactly right though, the best part of the bbg is the rigid center row that penetrates into the surface. you only barely want it to deform. any softer and i would not be stoked.

united we stand. 2.35 dh casing DTC or bust on that thing. for sure don't need the tire any bigger than a 2.35 IMO though.

anyone know who the product manager for kenda bicycle is? going to give those cats a call.

 

[kidwoo]

i thought the telonix side knobs in the stick-e rubber squirmed too much. may be true on this tire too.

They definitely do but that's also what I think makes it such a kickass dust tire...LOTS of surface area and facets grabbing what's essentially a pretty tractionless material. It's funny how sketchy those things are on hardpack at any angle on that tire though.

 

[Pslide]

Honestly, even if they do come out with a dh version, I'm not sure I'd want it. Because they'll do a full sticky rubber version and those center knobs are going to squirm. I still haven't even seen one of these in person so how thick are all those little centerknob ridges? It seems like they're going to be pretty lame in anything but a dtc, or a least a dual compound layered up with harder material underneath to cut down on deformation.

Have to check my notes at home, but I think the center row of knobs are 3 mm high. I agree, don't think it would work that well with Stick-E. And kinda defeats the purpose of this being a fast rolling dry tire. DTC is perfect.

I did a few parking lot power turns on these things and could hear them coming apart, so I quickly stopped. With Stick-E I think the tread might disappear riding them out of the parking lot...

 

[buckoW]

Think about it though. That's NOT what those angles do. I'm dead serious.

Leaning a bike over and having it bite in a non bermed turn is really similar to having a bike level on an off camber section....the sides are engaged either way. You can't say 'oh it's for off camber sections, not really for cornering'. The way those side knobs are angled, they're open at the 'entrance' of the engagement, and closed at the end. Now break traction. If your uphill side is on the right, those angles on the right side of your tire face downhill as you 'leave' the knob rolling forward or as the tire wants to slide. It pushes your tire to the left as you move forward. Rolling in tilled dirt is kind of a constant motion of controlling a little bit of sliding in a cyclic fashion as the tire rolls. All those micro sliding motions are directed the wrong way by that kind of angle.


I kind of see what they're thinking in that the open entrance will 'grab' dirt but it doesn't work that way. Besides, round things naturally want to climb when spinning on one side edge anyway. You know what happens on a bike when you lean it over without even turning the bars. It turns. You're a snow guy, what's one of the most key motions on turning a snowmobile, even on kind of hard packed snow? Leaning the track. Those certainly don't have angled knobs.
So even a fairly 'neutral' angle like on a high roller will want to climb because it's still round......and I'd argue even better because of the bigger channel and accessible 'wall' the sideknobs form hold material and keep it there better.

This is kind of like debating clicks of damping on a shock. You'll get down the hill just fine and most competent riders can adjust to about anything and make it work. I'm not saying you're going to die or anything running tires the way they suggest. Like most of what gets discussed on RM it's just minutia to add to the mix. It's just that I know most tire companies are guessing on a lot of this and it bugs me.

I agree with you. I was just repeating what Schwalbe told us when I asked why they do the side knobs like that. Luckily the tires I like to run from them (Dirty Dan and Muddy Mary) don't have the side knobs to far off.

 

[scottishmark]

Ben, I take it the Schwalbes are as good as Maxxis for puncture protection? Might get a set just as a change from the norm

 

[Bikael Molton]

We really need a stickied tire thread with all current offerings listed by manufacturer, along with photos and actual weights and widths, followed by subjective tests by our posters.

 

[monkeyfcuker]

Ben, I take it the Schwalbes are as good as Maxxis for puncture protection? Might get a set just as a change from the norm

No you won't you're far to tight

 

[kidwoo]

Ben, I take it the Schwalbes are as good as Maxxis for puncture protection? Might get a set just as a change from the norm

Isn't the reason most people want to quit buying maxxis tires because of the price?

 

[marshalolson]

wicked will dh is $1.05 less than DHF super tacky.

 

[kidwoo]

wicked will dh is $1.05 less than DHF super tacky.

Eureka!!!

 

[Transcend]

and I can vouch for how tough those wheels/rims are.

Not the carbons! One run at the fort. Goodbye rear wheel.

 

[dfinn]

You rode a carbon "trail bike" wheel at what some people consider one of the rougher worldcup dh tracks and you destroyed it. Shocking!

 

[Acadian]

You rode a carbon "trail bike" wheel at what some people consider one of the rougher worldcup dh tracks and you destroyed it. Shocking!

yeah no kidding...I have a set of Carbon Haven Easton hoops and I'm scared of riding on my my local trails, let alone Fort Bill...

The Havoc's and Haven's Alu have been bomb proof tho. Even on my ride this morning I hit rocks that would have totally dented DT rims (based on the noise/ping they made), but not a mark on them.

I probably just jinxed myself now...

 

[epic]

What carbon wheels are we talking about here? Syndicate all made it to the bottom (if they are on production rims, they too are trail bike wheels that are "not for DH use"). Was Barel's Easton wheel a carbon one?

 

[Acadian]

What carbon wheels are we talking about here? Syndicate all made it to the bottom (if they are on production rims, they too are trail bike wheels that are "not for DH use"). Was Barel's Easton wheel a carbon one?

some Easton Sponsored riders have been riding Havoc Carbon Rims - I'm pretty sure that's what Fraser is referring to.

 

[TrueScotsman]

Talking to someone in the Syndicate they only went through ONE (Enve carbon) rim at Fort Bill (thank god considering the price!) wheras in the past the team has gone through 30+ alloy rims per FW race!!!!

Apparently the Enve rim is beefed up a wee bit this year.

How long before carbon rims trickle down to an acceptable price that mere mortals can pay?
(BTW, if anyone at Enve is reading this- the cost for the above good advertisement for your product is 2 rims! Just PM me for the delivery address!!!!)

 

[DirtEveryDay]

They definitely do but that's also what I think makes it such a kickass dust tire...LOTS of surface area and facets grabbing what's essentially a pretty tractionless material. It's funny how sketchy those things are on hardpack at any angle on that tire though.

Wudup, Kid? So still REFUSING to jump on the Maxxis bandwagon cuz the company is full of douchebags and there's enough of those to deal with on a daily basis, and I REALLY don't find them all that fantastic....
Wanted to throw this by you... Remember the fairly useless Blue Groove? I havent run them for 3-4 years...but what I DO remember of them was that they were fairly damn stable thanks to low, large lugs. Still not available in a 2-ply DTC, or a 2.5 DTC(not that I'm a fan of large, bouncy tires anyway), but there are a few other options to choose from in sizing and carcass... They also have the most stout shoulder lugs of the offerings from Kenda....
But whatchu make of this retardedly simple cut?

 

[buckoW]

Ben, I take it the Schwalbes are as good as Maxxis for puncture protection? Might get a set just as a change from the norm

Maxxis is the reference for me and flat protection. Schwalbe is pretty much the same but I am not sure since I have been running only Schwalbe for the last 2 seasons. It has been a while since I ran a Maxxis. There are a lot of loamy/soft trails around here and I like the more open spacing and taller knobs of the Muddy Mary and Dirty Dan. They get clogged a lot less than Minions which were my go to tires before I found these other two. I ride the Dirty Dan a lot in the dry as well if the ground is loose and soft.

I like the knobs that dig in and find traction under the first layer. The flat protection is not a problem so I didn't worry/think about it. A couple years ago it was not good and I originally didn't like Schwalbe but the new stuff is great for where I ride. Most of my friends have all switched over and everyone is very happy with the Mary and Dan. I live in a rooty and wet valley and when I go to drier and rockier spots I run the Will, Mary and Betty, btw.

 

[StabprimoMonkee]

@TrueScotsman: 30 alloy rims for Syndicate team - ORLY? I just cant buy that, sorry. That would mean that they had to have a fulltime wheelbuilder just for 3 riders of the SCST. 3 alloy rims per rider I'd buy.

Its hard for me to believe that the whole circuit would bust more than 30 rims - per day.

 

[TrueScotsman]

Yup, I found it hard to believe too, but it was said with a completely straight face by a Syndicate mechanic I shared a lift with. He also said they bust a few Enve's last year but only 1 this year. I shall not name the unfortunate alloy rim manufacturer as it would show this mechanic in an un-professional light!

BTW, Fort Bill wrecks havoc on rims-check Fabian and Gee's final run for proof. Mavic had also RUN OUT of rims and we not sure if they could get more before Leogang!

 

[TrueScotsman]

Also, what a pro-team deems as "wrecked" and I do differs! They don't run with dings and uneven tension!

 

[TrueScotsman]

On the subject of wheels; a mate just FB'd me a picture of Cam Cole's rim....ahem!

 

[kidwoo]

Wudup, Kid? So still REFUSING to jump on the Maxxis bandwagon cuz the company is full of douchebags and there's enough of those to deal with on a daily basis, and I REALLY don't find them all that fantastic....
Wanted to throw this by you... Remember the fairly useless Blue Groove? I havent run them for 3-4 years...but what I DO remember of them was that they were fairly damn stable thanks to low, large lugs. Still not available in a 2-ply DTC, or a 2.5 DTC(not that I'm a fan of large, bouncy tires anyway), but there are a few other options to choose from in sizing and carcass... They also have the most stout shoulder lugs of the offerings from Kenda....
But whatchu make of this retardedly simple cut?

Go for it. I wouldn't buy a tire just to do that, but if you already have some........

Should clean out pretty well in sticky stuff.

 

[DirtEveryDay]

Only thing I dont like about it is it looks more like a DHR with that cut. I've gotten pretty decent results with cut Nevegals, but the shoulder lugs are just to small and gooey.
My fav set up still is a new Excavator rear/Telonix front, but the second those shoulder lugs touch hardpack I cant hold line... feels like my old Mobsters. Ha

 

[vikingboy]

some Easton Sponsored riders have been riding Havoc Carbon Rims - I'm pretty sure that's what Fraser is referring to.

Haven or Havoc carbon?
AFAIK Only the Haven is on carbon and its an AM rim not a DH one.
Would be interested to hear of a Havoc Carbon as I have the Haven Carbons and Havocs too - perfect blend would be to blend them together.

 

[Pslide]

Only thing I dont like about it is it looks more like a DHR with that cut. I've gotten pretty decent results with cut Nevegals, but the shoulder lugs are just to small and gooey.
My fav set up still is a new Excavator rear/Telonix front, but the second those shoulder lugs touch hardpack I cant hold line... feels like my old Mobsters. Ha

Have you hand cut the excavators or running them stock?

I have one I've been sitting on, may mount it up.

 

[DirtEveryDay]

Have you hand cut the excavators or running them stock?

I have one I've been sitting on, may mount it up.

Both. One I got cut happy with and it was FANTABULOUS....right up until the trails dried up and it would roll to a stop. I removed every intermediate lug and removed the middle section of the large center lugs. The thing was planted. After that I just ramped the intermediate lugs TOWARD the center, opening up a channel between the intermediates and the shoulders, left the centers alone. Then I ended up runing that up front, and a stocker in the rear so I could break it loose a bit easier, and finally ended up with a bone stock Telonix up front/stock Excavator rear for deep loose stuff, and a stock Nevegal rear/Cut Nevegal(removed every other intermediate lug, ramped the remaining to the center) up front for everything else.
When I finally move to the PNW I want to pick one trail(have one in mind), run it a few times on the combo I THINK I work best on, then start swapping setups and cutting tires. Be nice to actually FEEL these effects for myself. And Kendas are cheap!

 

[buildyourown]

I continue to run Maxxis because they are predictable and come out of the box round and ready to mount ghetto tubeless. Schwalbe is the only tire I've seens so far that isn't all wonky and out of shape.
I don't love any of their tires. I would only run high rollers for the rest of my life if they didn't wear so god damn fast.

I have a set of Muddy Marys at home in the Performance flavor. Despite being labeled DH, they are super thin. I'll try them tubeless, but I'm skeptical. They are hard as a rock and cheap for a reason.

 

[dfinn]

^ you get those MM's from chainlove? That's where mine came from. They were sold as dh casing but they feel almost single ply to me.

 

[Pslide]

Both. One I got cut happy with and it was FANTABULOUS....right up until the trails dried up and it would roll to a stop. I removed every intermediate lug and removed the middle section of the large center lugs. The thing was planted. After that I just ramped the intermediate lugs TOWARD the center, opening up a channel between the intermediates and the shoulders, left the centers alone. Then I ended up runing that up front, and a stocker in the rear so I could break it loose a bit easier, and finally ended up with a bone stock Telonix up front/stock Excavator rear for deep loose stuff, and a stock Nevegal rear/Cut Nevegal(removed every other intermediate lug, ramped the remaining to the center) up front for everything else.
When I finally move to the PNW I want to pick one trail(have one in mind), run it a few times on the combo I THINK I work best on, then start swapping setups and cutting tires. Be nice to actually FEEL these effects for myself. And Kendas are cheap!

Good info, thanks! Sounds like you like to get busy with a hot blade...

I was thinking I might ramp the intermediates towards the center and that's it, like your second mod. But I should probably try it stock first.

I wonder if there is a future for tires that are designed from the get go to be hand cut. They do this is for CORR/TORC off road racing tires. I don't know the logic behind the design below, except it's probably what the racers and mechanics asked for. They then cut to suit the track for the weekend...