[syadasti]

Let's turn this thread into a A64 vs. P4 battle.

Well I actually found the CG benches from a mac site, not a PC one:

http://guides.macrumors.com/Benchmarks

Looking at that site - no contest, the AMD X2, Circa April 2005 is superior to Intel's most efficient (Core Duo Circa Jan. 2006)...

http://www.anandtech.com/cpuchipsets/showdoc.aspx?i=2648

 

[syadasti]

nice setup . and running a pc with bsd is for those who think the gimp is on par with photoshop.

Use gimpshop if you need the familiar interface. That what I have on my mini...

 

[caboverpete]

I have never concerned myself with benchmark numbers, I prefer to judge a machine by how it feels while working and how productive I can be with it. I use 2 different tools one for video and one for GIS, my video tool works better. They both handle large amounts of data, both running the industry standard software for the specific job (Final Cut Pro/After Effects for video and ESRI Arcview for GIS). You can post links and stats all you want but if were to sit behind me for 8 hours working my PC with varying software packages ranging from Autocad to GIS packages to Microsoft Access you would sure see me frustated more, saying WTF alot more and killing processes a hell of a lot more than you would if you were sitting behind me creating a commercial on my mac switching between photoshop, final cut and after effects.

No matter how you spin that it is saying alot about the mac which is nearly 4 years older than my high tech PC. Im not some mac nut either, I am typing this on my mac flanked by my Debian webserver and my AMD based PC I use for my teaching work, which is 3d Animation using 3ds Max. So I am a user and these are user experiences not some flashing 3d cube or lines and lines of text flashing by in some benchmark app.

A car that runs only 90 but handles well will get you to your destination much fast than one that does 130 and handles like crap.

 

[H8R]

A car that runs only 90 but handles well will get you to your destination much fast than one that does 130 and handles like crap.

Not if you're drag racing.



Like I always say, "If the shoe fits, take it off and beat your kids with it."

 

[syadasti]

But again if ESRI Arcview is written like crap and crash a lot, thats why your experience sucks.

From what the mac/PC users at CG says, he still likes his PC for CG work...

My PC doesn't crash often and I'm running a minimum of more than a half dozen applications all at once.

When I started my job as a system admin, I worked on a POS PC that was 4 years old for 6 months - it was slow but it did not crash and I never complained about it. Only when I was going over some budget times and asked about my needs did I upgrade and I went for a faster refurbished PC even (not a brand new one)...

 

[bballe336]

Except in the real world PowerPC macs are slower and the benchmarks and Apple current conversion to Intel reflects this.

You can run Linux or FreeBSD on PC and have an OS with a more optimized technically superior kernel than Windows or OSX....

Who cares about the benchmarks? Honestly do those 2-3 seconds matter? No. The Mac is a great machine. It's very appealing to anyone in the media editing crowd.

PC:
I have a 2.4Ghz P4 with 2GB of ram and a ATI Radeon 9600 with 128MB. It absolutely sucks for photoshop, Sony Vegas, or anything like that. Just by opening one of those applications it becomes incredibly slow and studders a lot. And eventually it closes the application and gives me some type of windows error message.

Mac:
My mac on the other hand is a PowerPC G4 dual 1Ghz with 2GB ram and a 64MB ATI card (not sure of the model). It runs flawlessly and I generally have quite a few applications open at once. It never studders or slows down when running FinalCut or Photoshop. So in my experience the Mac is a much better machine.
I'm not very good at photoshop so maybe I am doing something that makes it run poorly but it doesn't slow down my mac.

And Linux isn't that great. No one uses Linux because in general it is a pain in the ass.

That's my 2 cents.
The whole point of this thread is that TN has a very nice new computer at work and we are all jealous.

 

[H8R]

PC:
I have a 2.4Ghz P4 with 2GB of ram and a ATI Radeon 9600 with 128MB. It absolutely sucks for photoshop, Sony Vegas, or anything like that. Just by opening one of those applications it becomes incredibly slow and studders a lot. And eventually it closes the application and gives me some type of windows error message.

I have an Athlon 64 3200+ w/ 2gb of Corsair XMS and onboard nVidia 6150 graphics. It rocks Photoshop with zero problems.

Total build including all components for my new system was around $675, and each components is warrantied by the individual manufacturer:

Athlon 64 3200+ 2.0ghz clocked to 2.3ghz
2gb Corsair XMS RAM
MSI K8NGM2-FID nVidia 6150/430
Thermaltake 430w PSU
WD Caviar SE SATA 120gb HDD
Lite On Dual Layer 16X DVD burner
D-Link 802.11g PCI card
Antec SLK2650-BQE w/ 1X120mm Antec Smartfan (super quiet)




Not to slag anymore on Apple, but...

What can $650 buy in the Mac world?

Well, this is $699:

Mac Mini

1.42GHz PowerPC G4
512MB DDR333 SDRAM (WTF?)
ATI Radeon 9200
32MB DDR video memory
80GB Ultra ATA hard drive **(running at 5400rpm)
SuperDrive (DVD±RW/CD-RW)
DVI or VGA video output
Built-in AirPort Extreme and Bluetooth
Optional 56k Internal Modem



Hmm. No thanks.

 

[merrrrjig]

That is one nice computer!

 

[WSU DH'er]

well i think hope brakes suck and hayes are much better... oh ya and marzocchi sucks too.... this thread is retarded... i'm feel better now

 

[H8R]

... i'm feel better now

Thank you Mongo, you can go sit in your corner now.

 

[Crash_Tested]

Athlon 64 X2 Dual Core vs Dual G5 - Photoshop Test

 

[TN]

zzzzZZZZZzzzzzzZZZzzzzzZZZZZZzzzzzZZZZZ.............

 

[McGRP01]

Geeks.

 

[BigMike]

That thing is the HOTNESS!

 

[jimmydean]

<snip>
And Linux isn't that great. No one uses Linux because in general it is a pain in the ass.

You do know that Mac OS X is built using FreeBSD (linux), right?

Having used my new Powerbook for all of 24 hours, I have to say I would be happy to spend the dough for it over my Thinkpad or any other laptop for that matter.

I like the 17" screen, but it is a bit much at times. I will be buying a Mac Mini for my truck this summer and I will be getting my wife a MacBook to replace the Thinkpad I have now soon after.

By the way, nice setup TN!

 

[Transcend]

You do know that Mac OS X is built using FreeBSD (linux), right?

Having used my new Powerbook for all of 24 hours, I have to say I would be happy to spend the dough for it over my Thinkpad or any other laptop for that matter.

I like the 17" screen, but it is a bit much at times. I will be buying a Mac Mini for my truck this summer and I will be getting my wife a MacBook to replace the Thinkpad I have now soon after.

By the way, nice setup TN!

Even if he doesn't know, you gotta admit...using mac osx is nothing like using any other raw flavour of Linux. I used to admin a few linux systems, so it is easy enough to jump into the console to do some things - but it isn't like I would HAVE to at any point.

Using linux just isn't worth the hassle for most day to day users. My mom can use mac osx, install software etc. That isn't even remotely possible under linux.

 

[BigMike]

Jimmy, why are you getting a computer for your truck?

 

[TN]

Jimmy, why are you getting a computer for your truck?

yeah, I was thinking the same thing. to surf RM?

 

[bballe336]

You do know that Mac OS X is built using FreeBSD (linux), right?

Yes, I do know that OSX is built on a linux base. I am talking about Linux OS's like fedora, Winux, etc... Those are all a complete waste of time for the average user such as myself.

 

[jimmydean]

Jimmy, why are you getting a computer for your truck?

I was looking to do something cool for my truck and it just made sense. When you look at what it would cost to do a full blown system compared to the mini, it's insane. The mini is the perfect size to fit in my dash, first of all. But for $600 for the mini and $250 for the retractable touch screen monitor, here is what I get:

1. DVD drive for movies, audio, and video files
2. 802.11g and blue tooth so I can sync my laptop/desktop music collection while the truck is in the driveway
3. GPS dongle for navigation (7.5 inch screen)
4. Personal user interface that I wrote myself to access the major applications (see other in-car computers for examples).
5. Blue tooth remote to control tunes
6. Can run 5.1 audio OR concert suround emulation through the same speaker placement
7. iTunes
8. WiFi + GPS + data plan = internet from most anywhere
There's a lot more too, but those are the main reasons.

If you look at the Omni Fi system that Rockford Fosgate developed a few years ago, it was a great idea, but had some limitations. The Mac Mini does all the basic features of the Omni Fi system, but with a full OS and unlimited application. A good in-dash head unit costs nearly as much as the Mini, why settle for the limitations of a single drive and radio tunner?

 

[jimmydean]

Yes, I do know that OSX is built on a linux base. I am talking about Linux OS's like fedora, Winux, etc... Those are all a complete waste of time for the average user such as myself.

Some of the current Linux distros are perfect for users such as yourself. I would say most people would be happier with Linux than a Windows system. My wife is a perfect example.

When she started using my old laptop, it was running Ubuntu. She asked me to install XP because "she was use to it". After running XP for about a month, she asked what used to be on it because it was now slower, crashed or locked up from time to time, and was starting to piss her off. I re-installed Ubuntu and she has been happy ever since.

I recomend Linux to anyone who wants to make the most of thier current computer hardware. There is a learning curve, but there is a learning curve any time you move to a new environment.

OS X just has the advantage of a large development staff. Larger projects are very easy and very soild and with the advent of LSB (the Linux Standards Base, they focus on cross-platform complience for a more stable base OS), the next few years will see an even larger number of Linux users.

 

[DirtyDog]

Just upgrade your motherboard to a $100 socket 939 motherboard and get nearly the same speed (3 seconds slower) for a few thousand less with an Athlon 64 X2 4400 2.2GHz dual core CPU (BTW, available 6 months before the dual core G5). Even better would be a Opteron dual to sixteen core workstation - a identically spec'd Quad Core Opteron workstation cost about $500 less than the G5 QC and easily outperforms it). The infamous photoshop test:

Or you could just wait until later this year when the Mac Pro desktop comes out with Intel Conroe 64-bit desktop dual core CPU and get similiar performance for much less

Not everything is about speed/feature ratio troll.

 

[jimmydean]

The Sony XAV-A1 is a DVD/CD/MP3 player with a built in screen. It retails for $1400, sells for $750 referb. online. Compare it's features and limitations to what you could do with a full blown computer, and it might make more sense.

 

[syadasti]

The Sony XAV-A1 is a DVD/CD/MP3 player with a built in screen. It retails for $1400, sells for $750 referb. online. Compare it's features and limitations to what you could do with a full blown computer, and it might make more sense.

If you are worried about price just built a SFF or microATX system with an Athlon 64 and run some flavor of Linux on there - a lot more bang for your buck right there.

I saw today Cyberlink even makes a commercial home entertainment suite for Linux now if you want something more polished:

The new PowerCinema Linux transforms a Linux PC into an entertainment center featuring analog and digital TV, radio, Teletext and electronic program guide browsing. A launch sequence of about 10 seconds and quick shutdown provide CE-like behavior on a notebook or desktop PC. The stylish 3D interface and operation by remote control ensure easy navigation of additional features, including DVD movies, music, pictures, and video modules.

 

[bballe336]

Some of the current Linux distros are perfect for users such as yourself. I would say most people would be happier with Linux than a Windows system. My wife is a perfect example.

When she started using my old laptop, it was running Ubuntu. She asked me to install XP because "she was use to it". After running XP for about a month, she asked what used to be on it because it was now slower, crashed or locked up from time to time, and was starting to piss her off. I re-installed Ubuntu and she has been happy ever since.

I recomend Linux to anyone who wants to make the most of thier current computer hardware. There is a learning curve, but there is a learning curve any time you move to a new environment.

OS X just has the advantage of a large development staff. Larger projects are very easy and very soild and with the advent of LSB (the Linux Standards Base, they focus on cross-platform complience for a more stable base OS), the next few years will see an even larger number of Linux users.

Well I for one will never be using Linux. It does not have the support I need if I ever have a problem with a Linux OS it will take me a lot longer to get help with. Also the rest of the computer industry is not very linux friendly in my experience. And linux lacks the software that I need. Apple is perfect for me. It allows me to use all of the software that I will ever need or want and having the same manufacturer for hardware and software simplifies things A LOT.

 

[syadasti]

Well I for one will never be using Linux. It does not have the support I need if I ever have a problem with a Linux OS it will take me a lot longer to get help with. Also the rest of the computer industry is not very linux friendly in my experience. And linux lacks the software that I need. Apple is perfect for me. It allows me to use all of the software that I will ever need or want and having the same manufacturer for hardware and software simplifies things A LOT.

Thats not true, Ubuntu has support, just not a toll free number. Its one of their main selling points:

The team behind Ubuntu makes the following public commitment to its users:

*

Ubuntu will always be free of charge, and there is no extra fee for the "enterprise edition", we make our very best work available to everyone on the same Free terms.
*

Ubuntu comes with full commercial support from hundreds of companies around the world. Ubuntu is released regularly and predictably; a new release is made every six months. Each release is supported with free security updates and fixes for at least 18 months.
*

Ubuntu will include the very best in translations and accessibility infrastructure that the Free Software community has to offer, to make Ubuntu usable by as many people as possible. We collaborate as widely as possible on bug fixing and code sharing.
*

Ubuntu is entirely committed to the principles of free software development; we encourage people to use free and open source software, improve it and pass it on.

Ubuntu is suitable for both desktop and server use. The current Ubuntu release supports PC (Intel x86), 64-bit PC (AMD64) and PowerPC (Apple iBook and Powerbook, G4 and G5) architectures.

Ubuntu includes more than 16,000 pieces of software, but the core desktop installation fits on a single CD. Ubuntu covers every standard desktop application from word processing and spreadsheet applications to internet access applications, web server software, email software, programming languages and tools and of course several games.

http://www.ubuntulinux.org/

Try it: Free Mac Live CD (The live CD allows you to try Ubuntu without changing your computer at all.)

 

[jimmydean]

If you are worried about price just built a SFF or microATX system with an Athlon 64 and run some flavor of Linux on there - a lot more bang for your buck right there.

I saw today Cyberlink even makes a commercial home entertainment suite for Linux now if you want something more polished:

Have you priced a microATX system? All the ones I looked at started at $350 and most are $600+ by the time you get an ok system. Why bother when the Mac Mini 1.25GHz is $450? For another $50 you can add an AirPort, then another $75 for the GPS. You can spend twice that trying to build an in-car pc that has the features of the Mini. I know, I did A LOT of research. Plus OS X comes ready to go out of the box, I just have to built the interface and wire the power supply.

My old company built solid state computers running embedded Linux and they couldn't do it for cheaper than off the shelf Mac Minis (they are now using Minis for new product lines). If you've ever been to Best Buy, Circuit City, Fry's, PepBoys, Virgin Mega Store, or Magnolia Hifi, you have seen my old companies product running the car audio displays and the home theater displays (pep boys uses it for "filter finder", Virgin for the mobil phone and personal audio displays). Click three times in the upper left corner to see the "MTI CMI" login screen

 

[MOTODH]

that looks amazing

 

[Crash_Tested]

It would be nice to see Apple split is hardware division from its software and license OS X out. That way you don't have to bother with hacking it.

http://www.uneasysilence.com/os-x-proven-hacked-and-running-on-an-ordinary-pc/

 

[jimmydean]

Thats not true, Ubuntu has support, just not a toll free number. Its one of their main selling points:



http://www.ubuntulinux.org/

Try it: Free Mac Live CD (The live CD allows you to try Ubuntu without changing your computer at all.)

The Ubuntu Live cd sucks ass. Knoppix is much more polished for a cd based OS (I carry it with me everywhere I go). Ubuntu is a great installed OS though.

 

[syadasti]

The Ubuntu Live cd sucks ass. Knoppix is much more polished for a cd based OS (I carry it with me everywhere I go). Ubuntu is a great installed OS though.

Yeah but if he wanted to try Ubuntu... I like Suse a lot too for installed usage.

About the microATX, I am talking about building the whole thing from scratch, not a barebones one. The hardware at the same price will smoke the G4 mini and you can probably afford twice the RAM and a 7200 RPM HDD. I understand that DIY could be a pain though, so I guess you could pay for the shortcut to cut down time on your truck project...

 

[jimmydean]

Yeah but if he wanted to try Ubuntu... I like Suse a lot too for installed usage.

About the microATX, I am talking about building the whole thing from scratch, not a barebones one. The hardware at the same price will smoke the G4 mini and you can probably afford twice the RAM and a 7200 RPM HDD. I understand that DIY could be a pain though, so I guess you could pay for the shortcut to cut down time on your truck project...

I did look at building one from scratch, but for what I want it to do, it doesn't need to be a full blown game box. All it needs to do is some basic controlling. The audio and video of the G4 is wicked. I was watching a movie last night on this thing and it was sweet! My powerbook is only a 1GHz with 1GB of memory and it rocks. Again, for $450, the mini is true plug and play.

If I was building a Windows based pc, I might need that sort of horsepower